Askren: "Colby Covington is is a poor mans version of me"

[magicmarker]

At this point I think Colby Covington is a poor mans version of Colby Covington.

 

[mkt]

I think it's worth noting, since Maia's been brought up multiple times on here, especially in reference to his fight with Fitch: it wasn't Maia's guard-game that beat Fitch. He won by taking him down and taking his back when Fitch tried to scramble out of a bad position.

Shields' Jiu-Jitsu style doesn't really offer much in terms of dissimilarity to Askren..

Maybe, maybe not, but you're ignoring the fact that Jake has been competing in MMA since 1999 and submission grappling since 2005. While Maia may not be the world's best guard fighter, his sub vs. Chael (who's much bigger/stronger than Askren) wasn't due to luck.

And even Askren's fans here admit his overall MMA game isn't that developed (thus the excuses for the Heiron and Santos performances). To say Shields and Askren would be equally comfortable on top and defending/avoiding submissions from Maia is extremely naive.

If it were that easy and safe to LnP Maia, why didn't Woodley nor Colby try hat approach? I'm no Woodley fan, but he and his camp are VERY good at watching tape, designing strategies and spotting weaknesses in opponents. I'm also quite sure he has a better submission/BJJ game than Askren...and he still didn't want to hit the ground with Maia.

I will give you credit for not bringing up Aoki (who can comfortably fight at FW) and comparing him to Maia. I knew that was a huge mismatch and fully expected Askren to win.

 

[MileHigher]

Come on Ben, just fight him ( sorry I forgot we've all know who he is & you only fight guys we've never heard of in Singapore)

How?

 

[Kingz]

But he's in the UFC and Ben isn't.

Noob.

Ben was ducked by the UFC.

 

[leto1776]

Askren is a “who?” Version of Cringeington.

Dude is irrelevant.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

LOL askren struggled with GSP leftover Jay Hieron . I really cant understand why he talks himself so big . At least colby is a world champion in the world best mma promotion and not like you who fights tomato cans in b-leagues .

"Stripped interim champ for refusing fight" in the best MMA promotion

 

[eseseses681]

Maybe, maybe not, but you're ignoring the fact that Jake has been competing in MMA since 1999 and submission grappling since 2005. While Maia may not be the world's best guard fighter, his sub vs. Chael (who's much bigger/stronger than Askren) wasn't due to luck.

And even Askren's fans here admit his overall MMA game isn't that developed (thus the excuses for the Heiron and Santos performances). To say Shields and Askren would be equally comfortable on top and defending/avoiding submissions from Maia is extremely naive.

If it were that easy and safe to LnP Maia, why didn't Woodley nor Colby try hat approach? I'm no Woodley fan, but he and his camp are VERY good at watching tape, designing strategies and spotting weaknesses in opponents. I'm also quite sure he has a better submission/BJJ game than Askren...and he still didn't want to hit the ground with Maia.

I will give you credit for not bringing up Aoki (who can comfortably fight at FW) and comparing him to Maia. I knew that was a huge mismatch and fully expected Askren to win.

There's actually a good reason Woodley and Colby didn't go to the ground with Maia.

Spoiler

Because there's this tendency nowadays for fighters to be extremely conservative with strategy and complete pussies about taking chances. For people who put their consciousness and self-esteem on the line for their passion, a lot of these guys are so afraid of losing that it's shocking. Didn't Woodley get a bunch of shit for his performance against Maia? He was completely capable of outgrappling him (and impressing people way more than he did), he didn't wanna take any chances, though. There are a bunch of other examples of this in the sport today; Phil Davis, Rory Macdonald (people act like he wasn't decisioning people in lackluster fights before he fought Lawler), Assuncao, Will Brooks. They sometimes get a favorable stylistic matchup that leads to a finish, though. Pre-Bisping St-Pierre is a good historical example. He coulda finished a lot of the guys he fought in the fourth or fifth round, like Demetrious does. Or at least been more dominant in victory, like Demetrious.
If you go into women's MMA there's more, and you see it in individual fights a lot, too (everything right up until the last-second-knockout of the Lima-Ortiz fight, and Melvin Guillard's fight against Fabricio Camoes).

That's why people are fans of Askren: he's got balls. He will absolutely go to the ground with anybody, no matter their Jiu-Jitsu accolades. He filmed himself getting submitted by Marcelo Garcia despite the fact that he had nothing to gain from it just to show he's got balls. He's got so much balls he's not gonna cuck out and not call Dana White out on his 2012-era stance on the impossibility of implementing USADA-like drug testing, just in case he ever wants to fight in the UFC. Then do what Ronda Rousey did and suck his Mick cock to get in the UFC.
That's why Askren wouldn't have to worry about Maia's Jiu-Jitsu game. He's not afraid of it, so he knows it's completely feasible for him to beat it.
He trains with Woodley, remember, so it's not like their grappling abilities are that disparate, and everyone who's seen them has said Askren has his way with Woodley when they're wrasslin'. If Woodley can outgrapple Maia-- which he completely can-- then Askren absolutely can. I think I gave pretty good reasons why before, too.
Colby didn't wanna do it because he knows he's not good enough on top to deal with Maia's guard. I didn't say it doesn't take a lot of submission-grappling skill to overcome Maia's guard. It does. Colby doesn't have it, he does have it in his defensive wrestling and his boxing, though.
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, though. Explain to me the actual grappling events and the positional transitions that would be put in place to have Maia submit Askren off his back. If it makes sense, I'll acquiesce. I think, personally, doing what he did to Chael and landing a Khalidov-Santiago I-level hammerfist off his back, which Chael admitted himself is what won Maia the fight, to lock in a submission is his best shot.

Someone like a welterweight Miguel Torres is the best kind of guard player to deal with Askren, or, despite you insulting him, even a legitimately-welterweight-sized Aoki. They're guys who are very well-versed in every aspect of the guard and have a wide-ranging series of tricks to both control their opponents and to be aggressive off their back (Aoki inheriting Imanari's leglock game is a plus), and they're slick and intelligent enough to know how to adapt to Askren's ride-based positional control. The likelihood of landing a big shot and hurting Askren off their back isn't good, but you can keep busy enough to negate Askren's own activity on top that gasses out his opponents so fast (and Miguel's own cardio would help that out), and that's the kind of thing Askren's never seen before and he'll have to change things around to adapt to it. And any good rubber-guard player will have dealt with a good amount of the kind of crazy funk-wrestling stuff that Askren uses, which Eddie Bravo would profess, so the positional-control and submission game from someone like a 187 centimeter Aoki would be an amazing asset.

Aoki's also as much of a comfortable featherweight as BJ Penn is.
And what do you really mean by Hieron and Santos excuses? He didn't lose either of those fights, and Askren was known for struggling against his opponents back then, and Hieron was the most-skilled of all of 'em (and he was like a top-15 welterweight after he won the Bellator tournament, and top-15 for a while before that as the IFL champion). Dan Hornbuckle's active guard gave Ben a lot of issues, Lyman Good rocked him and put him in a tight triangle in the fourth or fifth, Nick Thompson hurt him in the first and ended the fight on top of him. I think Ryan Thomas gave him some challenges in the rematch, too. And he learned and got better afterwards-- struggling so much against Hieron was a big wake-up call for Askren. That guy wouldn't have dominated Lima like he did. That's what the martial arts (and sports) are all about; you struggle, you learn and you get better, and hopefully you walk away undefeated and still have fun.
The fact that Sapo got wrestlefucked by an American with no wrestling background shows what woulda really happened had he not, as Askren put it, faked the eyepoke. And pulled out of the rematch he missed weight for after failing to agree to weigh less than 190 on the day of the fight.

 

[spinitch]

Different eras. So unless Ben can step in to prove we will never know. Ben was not challenged due to Dana not wanting to pay for a smother dominator. To bad , would have like to see Ben vs UFC best.

 

[Ruthless_swag]

But he's in the UFC and Ben isn't.

mousasi is in bellator and Rory is in bellator. what's your point. Ben would annihilate Colby queefington.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Well, he's right.

 

[mkt]

Pre-Bisping St-Pierre is a good historical example. He coulda finished a lot of the guys he fought in the fourth or fifth round, like Demetrious does. Or at least been more dominant in victory, like Demetrious.

That's why people are fans of Askren: he's got balls. He will absolutely go to the ground with anybody, no matter their Jiu-Jitsu accolades. He filmed himself getting submitted by Marcelo Garcia...

If Woodley can outgrapple Maia-- which he completely can-- then Askren absolutely can..

This is nothing more than speculation and tautologies. Askren was every bit as much of a boring LnP guy as GSP, Davis, etc. until he went to OneFC and faced much weaker competition.

Rolling with Marcelo and actually grappling with a submission wizard in a UFC fight are completely different things. Other MMA fighters have sparred against BJJ greats in the gym and gotten submitted. That's not a big deal if your title and won-loss record aren't affected. Askren never faced a submission expert outside of Aoki, who is MUCH smaller and who had lost his previous LW fight to a no-name guy. Gilbert Melendez (another LW-FW sized fighter) had no problem going to the ground with Aoki and not getting submitted--and that was a younger/better version of Aoki. A full-sized WW outgrappling Aoki isn't impressive at all.

Your last part is based on two levels of speculation: Woodly "can" outgrapple Maia (but we don't know because he didn't). Therefore, Askren can outgrapple Maia, too. This type of argument is too flimsy to even deal with.

 

[Seven30]

LOL askren struggled with GSP leftover Jay Hieron . I really cant understand why he talks himself so big . At least colby is a world champion in the world best mma promotion and not like you who fights tomato cans in b-leagues .

Let's be honest....Colby isn't a world champion and you know it.

 

[josh345]

On paper askren should win. The grappling might be closer in a mma fight and Colby is a much better striker. Hit rda with some solid punches. Also, Askren is obviously more decorated with being in the Olympics. but wasn't Colby an all American? He accomplished something in wrestling. I don't know why askren would say he didn't accomplish anything.

 

[King in the North]

Incel Colbybois still clinging to that interim title he was stripped of for ducking the champion.

Lima and Korsehkov are very legit wins. RDA at 170 and Maia aren’t really better wins. And only one of them was finished embarrassingly by a mid level fighter.

 

[mmaElite53]

Can’t wait till Colby beats Woodley.

 

[Meathead Jock]

If Askren fights at 230 I'll fly to New York for it.



I assume I will just have to relive the glory years on youtube though.

 

[KevinThaKilla]

Whoever just bumped this shit thread is either Askren or Colby.

No other explanation for it.

Nobody gives a enough of a shit about either of these two d-bags to bother.

/thread

 

[Yung Dilla]

I actually like Ben and hate Colby lol. Ben would maul him. Ben would be champ too so

 

[Meathead Jock]

Whoever just bumped this shit thread is either Askren or Colby.

No other explanation for it.

Nobody gives a enough of a shit about either of these two d-bags to bother.

/thread

I'm sure they will do that. Double Yellows are known for their moderating skills. War Askren for life.

 

[xP]

Maia and Rda are way better wins than anyone on Askren’s resume.

Its easier to look awesome in a C level promotion fighting nobodies. Its a different ballgame when you are in the ufc. Lombard, Alvarez, Torres and many others are examples of that.

Eddie Alvarez was the goddamn champion and Torres lost to the same dudes who were in the org he was champion in.