Australia: NSW and WA Police Finally Allowed to Kill Terrorists *BEFORE* Hostages Are Murdered

Wait. What?

They have to sit around until an innocent person gets murdered? My Aussie buddies are bad ass awesome guys. I have to tease the shit out of these Sissy La La's for this one.

For some reason the article fails to mention the real reason they didn't shoot.

HE had a bomb that he was going to detonate if they stormed the building or if the kill was not instantaneous. Bomb was bullshitt but they knew he had researched bomb making.

The large majority of hostage situations are resolved without executions.


Regardless i approve this change.
 
If someone is fucked up in the head enough to take a hostage they are not somebody who the police can rely upon in good faith, and they have essentially voided all their rights. That is a situation in which the hostage taker can expect zero concessions in any manner. Hopefully Australian police are legally free to exercise their discretion.

It has zero to do with his rights and everything to do with his hostages.
 
Just send in the Care Bears. That'll learn em!

It works in the vast majority of times for hostage situations, but much less frequently in terrorism hostage situation.

Hostage takers know they are dead within 1 minute of the first execution, in sime situations however that is less of a disincentive.
 
So the police will now get semi-automatic weapons?

What were they using previously? Slingshots and boomerangs?

<45>

Standard police pistol is semi auto.

Semi auto rifle is what they are getting, basically an AR instead of a 9mm.
 
What was the demands of this particular Jihadist that he needed hostages? Free some prisoners in Syria?

I read some articles and they didn't say shit. All I read was that he had 43 sexual assault charges, notifies to authorities for terrorism 41 times and was still free to walk the streets.

Maximum Cuck government. Too scared to be called racist they kid gloves on jihadists, but this is what I expect nowadays from UK/Commonwealth countries.

Why he was free is a fucking mystery.



He wanted to read a message to the prime minster on tv and radio. Plus some other demands.
 
LOL. We can't try to save your son until AFTER HE IS SHOT DEAD BY THE TERRORIST.


America >>>>>>>>>



I have guns. Criminals will always break the law and be armed as well. We are on equal terms.

Aussie cucks let themselves be disarmed. Enjoy the jihad.
 
Should police be given 'shoot to kill' powers to fight terrorism?
By police reporter Jessica Kidd

5970726-3x2-700x467.jpg

The call for Australian police to be given "shoot to kill" powers ramped up this week, in the wake of the London attack, the Brighton shooting and the coronial findings into the Sydney siege.

Former prime minister Tony Abbott and Liberal MP Andrew Hastie have both called for police to be given greater powers to shoot terrorists on sight.

They were promptly shut down by Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull who said police in Australia already had the authority to shoot assailants.

New South Wales Premier Gladys Berejiklian has announced police will be given "shoot to kill powers" in the state.

So, how much will actually change in that state? And do other police around the country have the power to use lethal force?

Are police allowed to use their guns?

Police in all states and territories are armed with semi-automatic pistols.

The laws governing their use differ slightly in each state. But generally, police are allowed to use "such force as is reasonably necessary" to carry out their functions.

Vince Hurley is a criminologist at Macquarie University and says police are allowed to shoot an offender so long as they reasonably believe that person has, or is about to, seriously injure or kill another person.

What if police actually kill someone?

A police officer who has fatally shot an offender will be called to give evidence at a coronial inquest and will have to justify their actions under oath.

As long as the coroner is satisfied the officer was using reasonable force, the death will be considered a "justified homicide" and the officer won't face criminal charges.

Between 1989 and 2011, 105 people were shot dead by police in Australia according to a 2013 report by the Australian Institute of Criminology.

Nearly all were found to be justified homicides and only one was found to be an "unlawful homicide".

Why do police need 'shoot to kill' powers for terrorist attacks?

They don't. Most experts believe Australian police already have the legal authority to shoot terrorists if they are actively harming, or about to harm, members of the public.

Nick O'Brien is a counter terrorism expert at Charles Sturt University and says police are trained to shoot the largest area of an offender's body, the torso or trunk.

"If you shoot someone in the trunk you'll hit a vital organ and that person is likely to die," he said.

"Effectively, you're shooting to stop and I think it's a better sell to the public to say that the police are shooting to stop, rather than shooting to kill."

Why are politicians calling for police to have special powers?

This debate has been sparked by the coronial inquest into the 2014 Sydney Siege.

The police snipers who had their rifles trained on the Lindt Cafe reported having a clear shot of gunman Man Haron Monis about 7:35pm on December 15.

But they told the inquest they didn't shoot because at that stage Monis hadn't harmed any of the hostages and the snipers didn't think they could legally justify a "kill shot".

Professor O'Brien believes the legal protection for those snipers already exists and says they could have justified their actions.

"Someone has got to say, 'I believe that Man Haron Monis or whoever is going to kill hostages and this is the reason why I believe that'.

"You've actually got to make that judgement before someone can pull the trigger."

So, police don't need additional protections?

Not exactly. The "shoot to kill" slogan being peddled by politicians is simplistic and fails to acknowledge that there are still grey areas in the law.

Mr Hurley believes there's a significant difference between a police sniper taking an intentional "kill shot" and an officer using their gun in a split-second decision to protect someone from harm.

Mr Hurley said the snipers had a belief they could be charged with murder under the NSW Crimes Act because they would be intentionally killing Monis, as opposed to simply trying to stop him with "reasonable force".

"There is a legal and ethical conflict," he said.

"In a situation [like the Lindt siege] that was being controlled by police … where Monis had de-escalated what was happening inside the stronghold, the police felt they were not legally allowed to execute him in anticipation of what else he might do."

How do we resolve this conflict?

The question we as a society need to ask ourselves is: How comfortable do we feel allowing police to use pre-emptive deadly force to protect us from terrorism?

The NSW Coroner recommended changes to the NSW Terrorism and Police Powers Act to give police sufficient legal protection to respond to terrorist incidents "in a manner most likely to minimise the risk to members of the public".

That recommendation is broad and open to interpretation.

The NSW Government has said it will accept all 45 recommendations from the coronial inquest, with Ms Berejiklian arguing police in her state would now have legal protections if they shoot a terrorist dead.

One thing is clear, the threat of terrorism isn't going away anytime soon.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-08/should-police-be-given-shoot-to-kill-powers/8598970
 
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LOL. We can't try to save your son until AFTER HE IS SHOT DEAD BY THE TERRORIST.


America >>>>>>>>>



I have guns. Criminals will always break the law and be armed as well. We are on equal terms.

Aussie cucks let themselves be disarmed. Enjoy the jihad.
Where not all disarmed, actualy there are more firearms in Australia than before the 1996 gun buy back scheme (when they brought in heavy restrictions on semi autos, pumps and handguns) and several political parties have firearm rights as 1 of there main political points.
 
Exactly my point.

Im saying the reason he wasn't shot before was for hostage safety.

That is still thr best idea in non terrorist situations. We have not had any prior situations in which shoot early was the best idea.
 
LOL. We can't try to save your son until AFTER HE IS SHOT DEAD BY THE TERRORIST.


America >>>>>>>>>



I have guns. Criminals will always break the law and be armed as well. We are on equal terms.

Aussie cucks let themselves be disarmed. Enjoy the jihad.

And youre much more likely to be killed as a result.

No Australian is suggesting the USA has better gun laws.
 
The last thing we need is more knee jerk terrorism laws.
Seems strange that NSW police would potentially face criminal charges under those circumstances though. That's not the case here in SA (but then again we also effectively have "Castle Doctrine").
 
How controversial can it be to say that taking someone hostage justifies lethal force all by itself?

You take someone hostage than say you'll kill someone? Easy answer for me, yes pull the trigger.
 
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I head that the 2nd Commando Regiment had a team just a block over ready to rock and roll, but because they couldn't officially classify the incident at the time as a terrorist attack, they had to leave it to the Police Tactical wing, who are more used to serving warrants against bikers.

The 2CDO and the SASR have been running drills on this stuff for decades, taking lessons from Delta, SEALs, GIGN, GSG-9. Giving the police the tools and knowledge to better handle these situations is a good idea but for me, a better idea would be to open up the military toolkit where all this stuff is sitting there ready to go.

I know in the US, Posse Comitatus is important in limiting the powers of the government, but over here, the government had already instituted a nanny state, where we're not allowed to even assault home intruders. Why don't we get the other side of the government intervention coin as well?


In all fairness to the police, America doesn't have a good history of using military for police operations. Waco is a prime example. Police and federal agents cordoned off the area. Delta Force(who totally wasn't there wink wink) fucked that entire thing up and they wound up having to do a cover up for their mess. There's a good reason the military isn't supposed to get involved in domestic affairs. It's a fine line from using the military to take out terrorists on our soil and using them to take out regular citizens.

Our police need a high level tactical response unit for these situations. They can do the same courses and training as the military, but they shouldn't be military. Teaching CQB and counter-terrorism is something well within the hands of SWAT style units and federal law enforcement agencies.
 
In all fairness to the police, America doesn't have a good history of using military for police operations. Waco is a prime example. Police and federal agents cordoned off the area. Delta Force(who totally wasn't there wink wink) fucked that entire thing up and they wound up having to do a cover up for their mess. There's a good reason the military isn't supposed to get involved in domestic affairs. It's a fine line from using the military to take out terrorists on our soil and using them to take out regular citizens.

Our police need a high level tactical response unit for these situations. They can do the same courses and training as the military, but they shouldn't be military. Teaching CQB and counter-terrorism is something well within the hands of SWAT style units and federal law enforcement agencies.

I'd be very surprised if a majority of Australians were on board with the militarisation of our police force.
There was a period where the Victorian police had (by Australian standards) a high number of shootings, quite a few of which were questionable, and there was talk of disarming them.
 
What was the demands of this particular Jihadist that he needed hostages? Free some prisoners in Syria?

I read some articles and they didn't say shit. All I read was that he had 43 sexual assault charges, notifies to authorities for terrorism 41 times and was still free to walk the streets.

Maximum Cuck government. Too scared to be called racist they kid gloves on jihadists, but this is what I expect nowadays from UK/Commonwealth countries.


<{anton}>
 
I'd be very surprised if a majority of Australians were on board with the militarisation of our police force.
There was a period where the Victorian police had (by Australian standards) a high number of shootings, quite a few of which were questionable, and there was talk of disarming them.

Militarization of police is a terrible idea. There does though, exist a legitimate need for a special unit who has high levels of training designed to target terrorists. Anything on a federal level seems like it wouldn't be flexible enough to get there when needed, so I would think that a dedicated unit in each police precinct would make sense. Take the most level headed and trained guys and put them to the task of counter-terrorism. SWAT is already essentially setup for the task in America.
 
Militarization of police is a terrible idea. There does though, exist a legitimate need for a special unit who has high levels of training designed to target terrorists. Anything on a federal level seems like it wouldn't be flexible enough to get there when needed, so I would think that a dedicated unit in each police precinct would make sense. Take the most level headed and trained guys and put them to the task of counter-terrorism. SWAT is already essentially setup for the task in America.

In my state we have STAR (Special Task and Rescue) Force as our local armed response groups, and every state has their equivalent.
On a national level there's the 2nd Commando Regiment/TAG (Tactical Assault Group) and SASR, but they are almost never called on except as security for high profile events and occasionally boarding North Korean vessels or boatloads of refugees.
 
The on scene commander should always have the ability green light without fear unless he totally fucks up.
 
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