Media Breakdown of why Arman Tsarukyan never tapped to Charles Oliveira's submission attempts

[The Siege]

Locked in sub where the opponent is subbed by the bell trumps the opponents top control for however many minutes

Sure, but was Arman "subbed" by the bell? Because if he was then Charles would have won by sub.

As for top control, people need to stop calling it control, judges don't use that as a criteria, they use effective grappling and taking someone down and advancing positions is effective grappling so is being in someone's guard, defending their sub attempt, and retaliating with GnP or your own sub attempt.

The graphic that shows "Control Time" on the screen is just informational.

 

[BowserJr]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you but rather dc suggesting that putting up a last minute sub attempt for 30 seconds or whatever could be enough to turn the round in Charles’ favor after Arman seemingly controlled the round before that. If he held that position for a few minutes then sure I could see his point. The severity of choke holds is hard to gauge, but based on how nonchalant Arman was when it was applied and when he got up I don’t think it was very effective.

Let's say Gaethje was lighting Max up all of round 5 and still gets KOed in the last 1-2 seconds.

Who had the more effective striking?

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Renner is awesome at breaking down subs and defense. I trained with his pops and Royce back in the early 90s.

His dad Rorion is easily the best instructor I have ever learned from. Same type of intricate explanation and repetition on techniques where you can't fail to pick them up and understand how to apply them.

Yuck bro

 

[The Siege]

Let's say Gaethje was lighting Max up all of round 5 and still gets KOed in the last 1-2 seconds.

Who had the more effective striking?

Max obviously. His striking was more effective because 1) had more immediate impact 2) it literally ended the fight.

 

[Corona]

Let's say Gaethje was lighting Max up all of round 5 and still gets KOed in the last 1-2 seconds.

Who had the more effective striking?

Well considering KO’s end fights thats a terrible comparison. Charles didn’t choke out Arman.

A more accurate one would be if Justin somehow dropped max at the end of r5 after getting destroyed all round. Even then, given how badly he got his ass kicked that entire round it would probably make it a 9-9. Knockdowns are easily the most effective way to swing a round in fights. Putting in a submission that doesn’t finish someone is more along the lines of tagging someone with a punch. If the submission was cleanly locked in Arman would’ve gone unconscious in those 30 seconds.

 

[blaseblase]

Arman's mistake was getting caught in the submission in the first place. He was the superior grappler, had he avoided it the fight wouldn't have been a split decision.

 

[Davidjacksonjones]

Conor Mcgregor needs to watch and learn

 

[Rektkid]

Arman's mistake was getting caught in the submission in the first place. He was the superior grappler, had he avoided it the fight wouldn't have been a split decision.

He slipped off Charles' back in the 3rd which gave Charles the opportunity, was a bit unlucky there.

 

[BowserJr]

Well considering KO’s end fights thats a terrible comparison. Charles didn’t choke out Arman.

A more accurate one would be if Justin somehow dropped max at the end of r5 after getting destroyed all round. Even then, given how badly he got his ass kicked that entire round it would probably make it a 9-9. Knockdowns are easily the most effective way to swing a round in fights. Putting in a submission that doesn’t finish someone is more along the lines of tagging someone with a punch. If the submission was cleanly locked in Arman would’ve gone unconscious in those 30 seconds.

You misunderstood my example.

I'm referring to the fact that a fight ending punch even if it's the only one landed negates 100 strikes the other guy lands. Simple volume does not mean it's more effective

Likewise top control time is negated by getting choked out.

If your knocked down and clearly hurt or almost choked out then that negates all your top control or strikes you landed previously in the round if they never visibly bothered your opponent

 

[TheBulge]

Renner is awesome at breaking down subs and defense. I trained with his pops and Royce back in the early 90s.

His dad Rorion is easily the best instructor I have ever learned from. Same type of intricate explanation and repetition on techniques where you can't fail to pick them up and understand how to apply them.

Met him too once. Pretty amazing. He was teaching me details of moves I didn't even know the names of.

 

[legedema]

dont know why but this Arman guy is so annoying

 

[RockyLockridge]

It's scored as effective grappling.

Why are so many people on this forum convinced that the judges didn't score these actions for Oliveira?

because he lost. remember, Charles may as well be Shedogs boyfriend, he can do no wrong. when He loses a decision it's the judges, when he misses weight it's the scale.

 

[Objectively Correct]

Sure, but was Arman "subbed" by the bell? Because if he was then Charles would have won by sub.

As for top control, people need to stop calling it control, judges don't use that as a criteria, they use effective grappling and taking someone down and advancing positions is effective grappling so is being in someone's guard, defending their sub attempt, and retaliating with GnP or your own sub attempt.

The graphic that shows "Control Time" on the screen is just informational.

We often see that judges actually do use control as a criteria many times or even just takedowns without meaningful advancement of the position, even if they shouldn't

 

[Hairrow]

A submission attempt can cause serious injury even if it does not end the fight, like Ferguson arm, Mokaev knee etc. Getting almost choked out wears your cardio a lot.

I thought about it some more and I agree that submission attempts that result in quantifiable damage should be scored.

 

[SalvadorAllende]

A locked in sub is very similar to knocking someone down in that they both are near fight ending

A haymaker that misses is more like a sub attempt that is easily escaped or not locked in. Both are dangerous if they landed but didn't.

Meanwhile a locked sub and a power shot that knocks an opponent down actually land and have a clear effect.

How do you know it was locked in? In both occasions Arman was just fine when the bell rung at the end of the round.. not like the Yan chinese girl that was basically out.

You either tap/go out or you don't..

 

[J Danger]

Came in here expecting a sherbro take and was completely caught off guard. Excellent breakdown.

 

[BowserJr]

How do you know it was locked in? In both occasions Arman was just fine when the bell rung at the end of the round.. not like the Yan chinese girl that was basically out.

You either tap/go out or you don't..

Or you gut it out and get saved by the bell. It has happened ple ty of times