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International BREXIT: Leave/Remain Referendum on June 23 Will Change Europe, No Matter the Outcome.
- Thread starter Arkain2K
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UKIP got more votes than the SNP and Lib Dems in the last election and would have made up a coalition government with the Tories in a proportional voting system so in a yes or no referendum they are a very real deal. Boris has just come out as supporting the Out campaign and despite his bumbling act he's a very sharp politician, though as I posted there's some sceptics doubting he isn't just playing the game. Corbyn is actually a down side for the in campaign he isn't popular and seen as anti Britain not what the In crowd really need. Also those on the Out side tend to vote more than those on the In side.
What shocks me is how short a time they've set out for the vote(originally touted as 2017). I think they are gambling on people being too scared of change and voting to stay where if there was a longer campaign people may be more confident of an Out vote.
Honestly on the fence myself I like the idea of the EU but the way it works right now is not good for the UK.
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I'm pretty sure the SNP folks who are still butt-hurt from the previously failed Scottish Independence referendum actually wouldn't mind just about ANY scenario that would splits them from England.
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Nicola Sturgeon says vote to leave EU will 'almost certainly' trigger a new independence referendum in Scotland
A vote to leave the European Union against Scotland's will would ‘almost certainly’ trigger another independence referendum, Nicola Sturgeon warned today.
The Scottish National Party leader said there would be an ‘inescapable’ shift in public opinion towards independence to guarantee Scotland's continued EU membership.
And it is ‘inevitable’ that people who voted No in 2014 would change their minds, she added.
She also warned leaving the EU would see the Conservative government ‘unfettered’ to water down UK employment rights and social protections.
Mrs Sturgeon was asked if a vote to leave the EU against the majority will of the people of Scotland would definitely trigger another independence referendum on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show.
She replied: ‘Almost certainly. I think that would be the demand of people in Scotland. Let me say very clearly that I don't want this scenario to arise.
Mrs Sturgeon acknowledged that an independent Scotland in the EU would have to negotiate its border arrangements if the remainder of the UK was outside the EU.
She added that said she has ‘no proposals’ to use her new devolved powers to top up benefits for migrants, but said EU migrants have had a positive impact on the UK economy.
She also spoke of her fears for employment rights and social protections under the Tories if the UK leaves the EU.
‘David Cameron seems to want an EU where the social and employment protections that it brings are watered down,’ she said.
‘For me these are parts of the reasons for being in the EU, and one of the reasons why it would worry me greatly if the UK was to come out of the EU, as we would then have David Cameron's majority Conservative government unfettered when it came to employment rights or social protections.’
She said Mr Cameron should ‘think twice’ about coming to Scotland to make his case for remaining in the EU.
‘In the independence referendum we used to be overjoyed when he made a foray into Scotland to campaign there, because we thought it ratcheted up votes for the Yes campaign,’ the First Minister said.
Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Willie Rennie said: ‘It is no surprise that Nicola Sturgeon favours independence for Scotland, but she is too keen to talk up a defeat in the EU referendum to advance her cause.
‘It is welcome that Nicola Sturgeon supports remaining in the EU, but we need her to support the campaign 100 per cent rather than using every opportunity to talk abut what happens if we lose.
‘The EU referendum campaign must not be used as a proxy campaign for independence. The EU debate deserves a laser-like focus, just like the independence debate. With economic, social and security benefits, the European Union is good for the UK.’
Scottish Conservative chief whip John Lamont said: ‘As always with the SNP, everything comes back to their campaign for independence.
‘Nicola Sturgeon said before the last referendum that it would be “once in a generation”. Now, a year on a half on, she is already manoeuvring for a re-run.
‘Scottish Conservative MSPs will proudly stand behind Scotland's decision to stay part of the UK, and we demand that the SNP does, too.’
Former SNP leader Gordon Wilson warned that a vote to leave the EU against Scotland's will will not necessarily lead to increasing support for independence, and urged the SNP to proceed ‘with extreme caution’.
But he said they ‘may have difficulty in holding the line in face of demands for an early referendum to defend Scotland's interests’.
He warned that the EU ‘is no friend of Scottish independence because of potential secessionist perils in Belgium, Spain and Northern Italy’.
‘The SNP Government should proceed with extreme caution before seeking another referendum based on Scotland acceding to the EU,’ he said.
‘Looking at the low level of support for a second 'go' at 36 per cent (as against opposition of 46 per cent), there will be a high irritability factor induced by voter fatigue after a Scottish General Election and two referendums - a case of triple jeopardy.
‘And then in an adverse economic climate, with 47 per cent believing they would have been worse off with independence, it would be a hard sell to win, especially when a third of SNP supporters want out of the EU.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ger-new-independence-referendum-Scotland.html
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How is the UK "safer" in the EU? If they left the EU they'd no longer have their borders undermined by bureaucrats from the continent and the US would still ensure their safety, so...
None want you, females only allowed sanctuary.
Seriously wtf do values have to do with getting staying rich and selling more shit to more people ? Germany may be fine but don't pretend you expended the EU out of values and not economic benefits. By the way its hilarious reading as Germ talk values, the same Germany that wants Turkey in EU lol yahh same values there bud.
Lets face it your values are retarded. You seem to lack middle ground either psychopathic fascist nazis or deluded leftist pc tolerance fools accepting mass rape murder pedophilia. Given your migrant issue id say you are in worst shape then all the east. The social costs of Merkels retardation with cost you very badly if not sink Germany for a bit. Which seems why Merkel is so desperate to unload some of them on others. Good luck dealing with 2 million 20 to 40 year old jihadi men.
Enjoy the summer of rape that's coming.
Ill be watching with popcorn in hand.
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Fury as David Cameron says the idea of the UK being a sovereign country outside the EU is an illusion
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ys-idea-UK-sovereign-outside-EU-illusion.html
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Well, the last national elections were a bit of a disaster for UKIP actually (maybe you're thinking of the EU elections where they were very successful). Sure they got more votes than Lib Dems but the latter were paying for their (politically at least) absolutely stupid decision to be the tail in a Tory government; the SNP is competing in a different electoral context, much smaller for one, so the comparison is unfair.
But, overall, UKIP got less than 4 mil. votes, which must be less than 15% of the electorate. Torries got 10 mil. and let's say I give you all of UKIP and 3/4 Conservatives, which is VERY generous. This makes about 11 mil. votes for a "no" campaign, which must make up about what Labour and Greens got in the previous elections (about 10 and 1 mil respectively) and none of them will be voting with the Right on this; Lib dems, SCT and NIR aren't likely to vote to leave. So projecting previous election results (by no means basis for a solid prediction but still the best one at the moment) you can see that the "leave" campaign needs for something to happen, while the "stay" just needs to consolidate forces.
Boris hadn't come out for the "leave" when I was writing (and it is my understanding that he still has not proclaimed); I think he's a bit of a fool actually but I am with you that he's likeable and a sharp politician so he would be a good choice to lead "leave". Regarding Corbyn we disagree, I think he will drive likely Labour voters who don't vote to the national ballot, but obviously we can only guess at this point, esp. for the referendum. Plus it shouldn't matter, Cameron is the head of the "stay" campaign and as much as I find him distasteful, he's not stupid and they couldn't have a better leader in this. I also agree with you that the "out" political forces are supported by people who tend to vote more (i.e. the elder) but also remember that they are the crowd that's scared of change and likely to support the government which is now "stay".
So the "leave" side doesn't have the raw numbers and will have to organise a campaign from scratch, since the Conservative party will be neutral in this. In other words they are in desperate need of the papers and other than the daily mail and maybe a couple more (I can only think of the Express now) they don't have them. I 'll be very surprised if they get the Times and we'll see how Murdoch deals with this. Your point on the timing of the referendum is apt but if they really wanted to push it they would have hurried it even more. Consider that the Greek referendum was announced 10 days before it took place. 10 f'ing days, good thing that Gramsci 's too dead to see this kind of dishonesty from his ideological children.
Yeah, I get it but an ENG-NIR out, SCT in situation just doesn't seem tenable (or legal) but maybe you (though we seem to agree that it's just politics) or someone else can see a way this could work.
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David Cameron's Cabinet split apart just minutes after he called a historic in-out referendum on membership of the European Union as six of his senior ministers demanded that Britain sever its links with Brussels.
In an extraordinary 24 hours in British politics, the Prime Minister announced a June 23 referendum but was then faced with the prospect of one fifth of Government ministers opposing his bid to keep Britain in the EU.
Mr Cameron yesterday made an emotional plea on the steps of Downing Street for voters to reject the “leap in the dark” of a British exit from the EU, saying that remaining a member of the bloc is essential for “economic and national security”.
Britain is “safer, stronger and better off” in a reformed EU, he insisted.
However, moments after his address to the nation he faced a heavily coordinated show of defiance from his own ministers led by Michael Gove, the Justice Secretary, who is also one of Mr Cameron’s closest allies.
Mr Gove travelled to the headquarters of the “Vote Leave” campaign alongside Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling, John Whittingdale, Theresa Villiers and Priti Patel. The ministers were photographed with a sign calling for Britain to “take back control”.
He then released a 1,500-word statement in which he spoke of his “pain” at opposing Mr Cameron but said that the EU is creating “economic misery” and is “built to keep power and control with the elites rather than the people”.
He appeared to echo Mr Cameron’s “safer, stronger and better off” phrase but instead used the words “freer, fairer and better” to describe why Britain should leave the EU. It will intensify speculation that Boris Johnson, the London Mayor, who is yet to declare his position, could join the campaign to leave the EU.
Writing in today’s Sunday Telegraph, Ms Villiers, the Northern Ireland Secretary, said “it is time to take back control” and that as long as Britain is beholden to European courts “we cannot say we run our own country”. The so-called “gang of six” are now set to be joined by at least 12 junior ministers and more than 100 Conservative MPs.
Mr Cameron will today continue making the case for Britain to stay in the EU and has promised to introduce a British Bill of Rights designed to ensure that UK sovereignty is guaranteed by “making the Supreme Court supreme”.
He will attempt to head off his Eurosceptic critics by publicly challenging the “Leave” campaign to set out exactly what Britain would look like outside the EU, senior sources said.
The swift, unprecedented split came within minutes of Mr Cameron convening the first Saturday Cabinet meeting since the Falklands conflict. He began with a passionate 20-minute address setting out the deal he secured on Friday night in Brussels after 30 hours of intense negotiations. He told ministers his deal gave Britain “special status” in the EU and that he would campaign “heart and soul” to remain in the bloc.
He hailed a four-year “emergency brake” of migrants’ access to full rates of benefits in the UK that could remain in place for seven years. Mr Cameron also assured his Cabinet that he had secured an opt-out for Britain from future European treaties to “make clear that the references to ever-closer union do not apply to Britain”.
He concluded by making a plea for a “sensible, orderly, well-mannered debate” in the run-up to the EU referendum before asking all ministers present to declare their position.
After pro-EU speeches from George Osborne, the Chancellor; Theresa May, the Home Secretary and Philip Hammond, the Foreign Secretary, Mr Gove became the first minister to make the case for a “Brexit”.
The Justice Secretary gave a stark warning that the British Parliament will never be sovereign if the UK remains in the EU. In his statement, released a short while later, Mr Gove said: “I believe our country would be freer, fairer and better off outside the EU. And if, at this moment of decision, I didn’t say what I believe I would not be true to my convictions or my country.
“By leaving the EU we can take control. Indeed, we can show the rest of Europe the way to flourish.”
Yesterday afternoon, Mr Grayling, the Leader of the House, said: “We cannot control our borders, limit the number of people who come here, do trade deals.
“I do not believe we can take decisions in the national interest when we are part of the European Union. If we are outside the European Union we can take better decisions – things that will benefit this country in a way that right now we simply cannot.”
Downing Street last night declared itself “delighted” that Eurosceptics including Mrs May and Sajid Javid – both previously thought of as contenders to lead the out campaign – backed the Prime Minister’s bid to stay in the EU.
However, two Cabinet sources said Mr Javid told the Cabinet meeting that despite backing staying in, he believed Britain could be “more prosperous” outside the EU but that there would be a “short term” cost.
After the conclusion of the Cabinet meeting, Mr Cameron gave a speech outside No 10 in which he described the vote as “the biggest decision of our lifetime”. He said that leaving would threaten Britain’s “economic and national security”.
He said: “Those who want to leave Europe cannot tell you if British businesses would be able to access Europe’s free trade single market, or if working people’s jobs are safe, or how much prices would rise. All they’re offering is a risk at a time of uncertainty – a leap in the dark,” he said.
In an apparent dismissal of the ministers campaigning for exit, Mr Osborne said that Mr Gove would have made his decision “regardless” of the deal reached by Mr Cameron.
Mr Cameron said those campaigning to leave the EU would have to accept freedom of movement in order to achieve a free trade deal.
Speaking to the Sunday Times, he said: “So far, the EU has never given full access to the single market without insisting on a contribution to the budget and free movement.”
The Prime Minister challenged rebels to explain what “out” would mean for Britain.
But Employment Minister Ms Patel, who is campaigning to leave, criticised the terms of Mr Cameron’s deal.
“We should be left in no doubt that by staying in the EU, nothing will change as no significant powers or competences have been returned to Britain,” she wrote in the Mail on Sunday.
Ms Patel condemned the EU’s “spin, propaganda, and abuses of taxpayers’ money” and called for a return of sovereignty to Britain.
Read the rest of the story and follow the latest developments on Brexit at:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...-leave-brexit-EU-referendum-june-23-live.html
Dude what's wrong with ms villiera chin
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Tory meltdown as Foreign Secretary hurls four-letter abuse at anti-EU rival after trying to hide secret report on PM's deal
The Tory feud over Europe turned nasty last night when it emerged that Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond hurled foul-mouthed abuse at an anti- Brussels Conservative grandee.
Mr Hammond called Conservative MP Sir Bill Cash ‘a total s***’ for publishing a secret Brussels legal report on the EU deal negotiated by David Cameron – in direct defiance of the Foreign Secretary’s orders to keep it under wraps.
And in another escalation of Tory Party tensions, George Osborne slapped down Boris Johnson for comparing himself to James Bond on a mission to rescue Britain from Brussels ‘baddies’.
In remarks clearly aimed at the wise-cracking London Mayor, the Chancellor said: ‘This isn’t some amusing adventure into the unknown – it’s deadly serious.’
Then Johnson’s fellow Tory ‘Out’ campaigner, former Chancellor Nigel Lawson, called Mr Osborne’s claim that leaving the EU would cause economic shockwaves throughout Britain as ‘absurd’. The ‘blue-on-blue’ incidents involving Tory big guns from rival ‘In’ and ‘Out’ campaigns are the latest evidence that the party risks being ripped to shreds by an increasingly acrimonious feud over the EU referendum.
Mr Hammond’s ‘total s***’ comment echoes John Major’s infamous outburst in the 1990s, when he called rebellious Eurosceptic Tory Ministers ‘bastards’ in an unguarded comment picked up by a TV microphone left on after an interview. Mr Major also reportedly called fellow EU leaders a ‘bunch of s***s’ in a private comment.
Shocked MPs looked on as the usually mild-mannered Mr Hammond, who is backing the Prime Minister’s bid to keep Britain in the EU, exploded in rage at Sir Bill.
His undiplomatic outburst came after he was quizzed by the cross-party Commons European Scrutiny Committee on the EU deal.
Mr Hammond was furious to discover committee chairman Sir Bill, 71, had handed out the secret EU document, which the Foreign Secretary had given him the previous day – with strict orders not to reveal its contents. But MPs from all sides on the committee, and the committee clerk, had backed Sir Bill.
The document gave the advice that the new settlement for Britain, as approved by EU leaders, would be as legally binding as if it were enshrined in a new EU Treaty, and could not be subsequently overturned.
So when unsuspecting Mr Hammond appeared before the committee, he was stunned when some of the MPs tried to use the document against him. Aides later denied Mr Hammond was trying to cover up the document, but said he was angry that it was a breach of protocol.
To add insult to injury, Sir Bill put both the document – written by the legal aide to European Council president Donald Tusk – and Mr Hammond’s personal ‘Dear Bill’ letter banning him from publishing it – on a Commons website. The letter stressed: ‘This is NOT a public document so while I will draw on it tomorrow we should refrain from referring explicitly to it in the session.’
Eurosceptic Labour MP Kate Hoey, who saw Mr Hammond’s outburst, said: ‘It was totally uncalled for. As we walked out of the committee room during an adjournment, Bill bumped into Hammond and went to make polite small talk like the gentleman he is.
‘He said something innocuous like “Everything OK, Foreign Secretary?” Hammond glared at him, got right up to Bill’s face and hissed, “No, it isn’t! I told you that document was ‘Limité’ [French for ‘restricted’] and that you were not to distribute it. You deliberately ignored me; you are a total s***!”
‘Bill was speechless, and Hammond stomped off. It is hardly an appropriate way for a Foreign Secretary to behave. He is clearly rattled.’
The incident on February 10 is revealed two days after Mr Hammond said the EU would ‘stick two fingers up’ at Britain if we left.
He has come under fire for supporting the ‘In’ campaign after being seen for years as a robust Eurosceptic. One Tory MP said: ‘It is outrageous to ban MPs seeing a document that affects the legality of Britain’s EU deal. It is precisely why we need our sovereignty back.
‘The idea that our Foreign Secretary trembles with fear because an EU document for President Tusk is marked “Limité” is a joke.’
Astonishingly, the Hammond-Cash spat continued after the Foreign Secretary’s four-letter insult. The Foreign Secretary wrote further protest letters; but this time, it is understood they were icily addressed to ‘Dear Sir William’ instead of the friendly ‘Dear Bill’ of his original.
A source close to Mr Hammond said: ‘I have never seen him so incandescent. He gave the report to Bill the night before the meeting when they bumped into each other. He never dreamed he would hand it out freely – never mind put it on the internet with his letter. It’s a complete breach of protocol.
‘When MPs brandished it in his face and used it to try to ridicule him, his blood boiled over. It is a frustrating time for him.’
Sir Bill was not available for comment last night, and Mr Hammond declined to comment.
But a Foreign Office source said: 'The legal advice in question confirms that the deal the Prime Minister secured is legally binding and irreversible. 'The wider issue is whether Parliamentary authorities may now look into the issue of a Committee breaching longstanding rules in place that allow for the Government to provide sought-after advice, in confidence, to better inform committees of Parliament.
'This is a process matter, not an issue of how the Government's EU deal is legally binding. That has already been recognised.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ival-trying-hide-secret-report-PM-s-deal.html
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Bump, because I am sick of the race baiting threads........
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Not sure anyone other than myself and the TS still cares about this but here it goes...
First, stuff may get way more interesting than I thought with the Tory government facing internal opposition that's got inside info and is willing to pull off stunts like the Bill Cash thing. The EU being a lot more heavy handed, undemocratic and secretive the last 5 years we might end up learning something about how this sort of deal is being negotiated. Keep it up Tories backseaters! On the issue of the actual brexit though, I still think it's going to be hard road for the brexit campaign (I 'd like the UK to stay by the way but I am neither citizen nor do I live there anymore so, whatever, it's up to them).
Enough polls have come in after the deal and it seems like there a slight lead for the "remain" vote (53% to 47%) which has generally been the case throughout (honestly I 've no idea whether the image will appear or not, let's hope).
View media item 23073
Anyone interested should visit the site (http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/#), they've a neat interactive graph of a number of different polls pooled together. In any case, my guess would be that polls will fluctuate a lot until May (here's a poll from the Independent that gives brexit a 52%, though weirdly 0% "don't know" responses, no idea why they would allow it as a response).
Also, as anyone with even a passing acquaintance with neo-marxist thinking knows, noone really cares what people think, so here's an article I just got in the mail for why economy and politics will drive a "remain" vote. Fair warning to the conspiracy fans and crazies of the world out there, I think Kaletsky, the author, is getting some of that sweet Soros money.
First, stuff may get way more interesting than I thought with the Tory government facing internal opposition that's got inside info and is willing to pull off stunts like the Bill Cash thing. The EU being a lot more heavy handed, undemocratic and secretive the last 5 years we might end up learning something about how this sort of deal is being negotiated. Keep it up Tories backseaters! On the issue of the actual brexit though, I still think it's going to be hard road for the brexit campaign (I 'd like the UK to stay by the way but I am neither citizen nor do I live there anymore so, whatever, it's up to them).
Enough polls have come in after the deal and it seems like there a slight lead for the "remain" vote (53% to 47%) which has generally been the case throughout (honestly I 've no idea whether the image will appear or not, let's hope).
View media item 23073
Anyone interested should visit the site (http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/#), they've a neat interactive graph of a number of different polls pooled together. In any case, my guess would be that polls will fluctuate a lot until May (here's a poll from the Independent that gives brexit a 52%, though weirdly 0% "don't know" responses, no idea why they would allow it as a response).
Also, as anyone with even a passing acquaintance with neo-marxist thinking knows, noone really cares what people think, so here's an article I just got in the mail for why economy and politics will drive a "remain" vote. Fair warning to the conspiracy fans and crazies of the world out there, I think Kaletsky, the author, is getting some of that sweet Soros money.
I dont see how Britian leaves EU, I am so sure we gonna stay thatI went to my bookie to have a bet. But the odds were even lower than I expected. In american odds its -300. All the companies want to stay in UK. Also the people who usually complain about immigrants and EU are not the type who goes and vote. I already won money on scotland staying in UK and this is another safe bet
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I'm still amazed that since joining the E.U, 55% of British laws are dictated by Brussels, instead of written and vote for by their own elected legislators.
I think you can safely say a nation gave up their independence when a foreign entity with nameless men writes over half of their laws in a back room. It's like, a perversed, undemocratic version of a Federal Republic.
I think you can safely say a nation gave up their independence when a foreign entity with nameless men writes over half of their laws in a back room. It's like, a perversed, undemocratic version of a Federal Republic.
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President Obama support David Cameron's effort to remains in the E.U.
Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage says he's anti-British because he's half Kenyan.
Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage says he's anti-British because he's half Kenyan.
US President Barack Obama has said Britain would go to the "back of the queue" for trade deals with the US if it votes to leave the European Union.
He said Britain was at its best when "helping to lead" a strong EU and membership made it a "bigger player" on the world stage.
He was speaking at the start of a three day visit to the UK.
EU exit campaigners reacted angrily to his words, with Tory MP Dominic Raab dubbing him a "lame duck" president.
Speaking at a joint press conference with Mr Obama, Prime Minister David Cameron said being a member of the EU strengthened Britain's "special relationship".
On the UK's upcoming referendum on its EU membership, he said: "This is our choice - nobody else's - the sovereign choice of the British people - but as we make that choice, it surely makes sense to listen to what our friends think."
Mr Obama said: "The UK is at its best when it's helping to lead a strong European Union. It leverages UK power to be part of the EU. I don't think the EU moderates British influence in the world, it magnifies it.
"America wants Britain's influence to grow, including within Europe."
On whether he should be intervening on the UK's referendum, he said: "Let me be clear: ultimately this is something the British voters have to decide for themselves."
"As part of our special relationship, part of being friends is to be honest and to let you know what I think, and speaking honestly, the outcome of that decision is a matter of deep interest to the US, because it affects our prosperity as well."
Mr Obama's intervention into the EU referendum debate has been criticised as "hypocritical" by London Mayor and EU leave campaigner Boris Johnson, and UKIP leader Nigel Farage said he was the most anti-British US president ever.
The London mayor has been under fire over comments he made about Mr Obama's "part-Kenyan" ancestry in an article for the Sun, suggesting some people thought he had an "ancestral dislike of the British Empire".
UKIP leader Nigel Farage earlier told BBC News he thought Mr Obama's views on the UK had been shaped by his Kenyan grandfather's experience of colonial Britain and suggested he bears a grudge against Britain.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36115138
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If they leave first thing out the window will be workers protection and all the dumbasses who vote for it on low paid jobs will be bitching that they have to work x hours, their union cant do shit anymore etc etc
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And what protection would that be? Where the UK is flooded with unskilled migrants who drive down wages and working conditions and pit the working classes against each other, fighting amongs each other, all while making sure the rich get rich and the distribution of wealth continues to move upwards.
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Dont deny that migration is a scam to do that to wages dude but without the eu directive on workers rights etc they wouldnt need them they could just fuck us over as they please aithout them
Also bear in mind if existing worklaws on ilegals were enforced better it wouldnt be such an issue...hit the employers not the poor modern slaves etc
Bottom line all parties seem to be about making the rich richer and poor but depending on political leaning have to hide it to different degrees
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