International Brexit News & Discussion v7: British Parliament Rejects Theresa May's Brexit Deal (Again)

How EU Surprised Capitals and Helped May Cross the Brexit Line
By Ian Wishart and Robert Hutton | November 22, 2018

​


Theresa May got her Brexit deal a bit sooner than many were expecting. Trouble is, the rush to get it over the line blindsided European capitals and left them puzzled by the choreography.

EU President Donald Tusk and Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker declared on Thursday that a deal had been “agreed in principle at political level,” just as Commission negotiators circulated a text, which quickly leaked.

National ambassadors thought the document was still an open draft as they met behind closed doors in Brussels. They’re now complaining they’ve been sidelined, according to people familiar with the situation.

The Spaniards grumbled about Gibraltar and even German Chancellor Angela Merkel was left sounding a bit out of date as she spoke in Berlin. With nations starting to raise concerns on issues from fish to fair play, the Brussels machinery staged an intervention.

The Commission sought to put a lid on objections by nailing down the text and publishing it as soon as possible, according to two people familiar with the matter.

The risk is that the summit on Sunday isn’t just a rubber-stamping exercise and nations that didn’t feel heard will want to assert their authority. After all they are the ones who gave chief negotiator Michel Barnier his mandate in the first place, and he reports to them.

Some countries are particularly miffed that May is coming to Brussels on Saturday to see Juncker. The last pre-summit meeting of member-state officials is Friday -- and they don’t want anything to change after that.

Merkel for one has made clear she’s not up for negotiating on Sunday. She wants her officials to brief her on the final text, so she can be in and out for the signing.

May’s spokesman tried to allay any concerns that May would rock up on the weekend with a new wish list. He acknowledged that the deal isn’t finalized until all 27 member states sign off, and said the U.K. won’t be asking for anything else.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-22/how-eu-surprised-capitals-and-helped-may-cross-the-brexit-line?utm_content=brexit&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&cmpid==socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic
 
The Brexit Declaration on Future Ties: The Breakdown
By Ian Wishart | November 22, 2018

​


It’s a draft document of just 26 pages, full of aspirations and good intentions rather than hard and fast commitments. It sets out what the U.K. and European Union want their future relationship to look like after Brexit.

The text isn’t binding, and so the promises made are of limited value -- in particular to lawmakers in the U.K. Parliament who are the toughest audience. But Prime Minister Theresa May has scored some key wins. The trouble is, the text is also full of ambiguity and even a bit of contradiction.

These are the highlights of the political declaration on the future relationship:

  • There will be an “ambitious, wide-ranging and balanced economic partnership” underpinned by level playing field conditions “for fair and open competition.”
  • The relationship should "build and improve on the single customs territory provided for in the Withdrawal Agreement which obviates the need for checks on rules of origin." That is good for business but implies ties that are too close for pro-Brexit hardliners.
  • There’s no mention of frictionless trade, as the U.K. once wanted, but “comprehensive arrangements that will create a free trade area” and there will be “no tariffs, fees, charges or quantitative restrictions across all sectors.”
  • There could be U.K. cooperation with the European Medicines Agency, the European Chemicals Agency and the European Aviation Safety Agency and the U.K. “will consider aligning” with EU rules in those areas. This is a win for May and for business.
  • On services, the two sides “should conclude ambitious, comprehensive and balanced arrangements” on trade in services in areas including: professional and business services, telecoms, courier and postal services, distribution, environmental, financial services and transport services.
  • On financial services specifically, both sides said they are committed to preserving financial stability. Trade will be based on equivalence, and both sides will try to conclude equivalence assessments by June 2020 to avoid disruption.
  • The U.K.’s transition period -- currently agreed to last until the end of 2020 -- can be extended by up to one or two years.
  • In a political move aimed at helping May at home, both sides note their “determination to replace the backstop solution on Northern Ireland by a subsequent agreement.”
  • The two sides aim to ensure a “high level of personal data protection” with cooperation between regulators, and the EU aiming to recognize the U.K.’s standards as adequate.
  • The U.K. will make a “fair and appropriate financial contribution” to participate in future EU projects in areas such as science and education.
  • The two sides want to enable “free movement of capital and payments.”
  • They want high protection for each other’s intellectual property, including geographic indicators related to food and drink origins.
  • Planes will be kept flying thanks to a comprehensive aviation agreement.
  • The two sides will consult each other on sanctions policy.
  • A joint committee will settle disputes between the two sides. Matters of EU law will be interpreted by the European Court of Justice.
  • The EU and U.K. will hold a summit every six months after Brexit to discuss progress.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ration-on-future-ties-a-guide-to-what-it-says
 
Well, this is what I kind of expected. Brussels aiming to deliver, but countries like Spain unwilling or unable to back down.

I think Gibraltar is a bigger deal than fishing, because there are some common interests on the latter topic.
 
I was really hoping for a declaration of war , nice and simple .
 
Arkain2K said:
That being said, I personal think that as long as Catalonia keeps trying to secede, the Socialists in Madrid wouldn't actually try to force the Gibratar sovereignty agenda on Brexit talks despite all the huff and puff, and would try to get some concessions on borders issues at best to satisfy the voter base back home.

In the end, Spain doesn't want to piss Britain off to the point that London would recognize Catalonia out of spite, who already openly trying to get British support for their independence drive by recognizing Britain's total sovereignty over Gibraltar.
Click to expand...

Sanchez has said that Spain will not sign unless the Gibraltar part of the deal is changed. Hard to come back down from such a strongly worded statement.
 
So looks like it all went smooth from the EU side today. Gibraltar issue was resolved as well. Not even 30 minutes and everyone from the EU was in favor of it.
No wonder that deal is a slap in the face for the UK (assuming it passes in the UK). The EU has not made a single real sacrifice pretty much got everything they wanted.

IMO the UK will stay a "member" indefinitely. Paying into the EU, having to follow all the rules just without any voting rights. Until they eventually reapply in 2 or 3 decades.
They should just call the whole thing off. Sometimes in a political life, you have the situation were the right decision is going to kill your political career.
This is one of those situations. I would not put my name under that deal or leaving without any deal. I would just ignore the referendum for the good of the country.
Which probably would be the end of your political career.
 
snakedafunky said:
The EU has not made a single real sacrifice pretty much got everything they wanted.
Click to expand...

I really don't understand why people expect anything to be different. The UK was absolutely not prepared, never had the upper hand to begin with and the No Deal possibility was always going to hurt them the most. How could they win the negotiations?
 
Rvd Slmr said:
I really don't understand why people expect anything to be different. The UK was absolutely not prepared, never had the upper hand to begin with and the No Deal possibility was always going to hurt them the most. How could they win the negotiations?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know what you mean.
I guess the only chance would have been the remaining EU members being divided.
But it turns out the Brexit has been very good for morale and unity in the EU.
No one is talking about leaving anymore. This stuff is off the table.

For the UK. I think they have been somehow overestimating their own hand to an extent that you could talk of delusion.
Just because they buy a few BMW and Mercedes they thought Germany would jeopardize the single market.
That is just one example I always saw mention hear in the threads.
Or they thought all those trade deals with the US, China or Canada etc. would fall from the sky and be done within a few years. And highly beneficial for the UK.
Now that reality has set in that it will take a decade maybe more to get those done. And they will be as beneficial to the UK as the deals the EU had with those countries.
They completely ignored the fact that part of why everyone puts up with the EU is because together we can protect our markets and make better deals.
 
Rvd Slmr said:
I really don't understand why people expect anything to be different. The UK was absolutely not prepared, never had the upper hand to begin with and the No Deal possibility was always going to hurt them the most. How could they win the negotiations?
Click to expand...

  • There will be no downside to Brexit, only a considerable upside. (David Davis brushes off Brexit retaliation fears, 10 October 2016)
  • There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market.
  • Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy – the UK holds most of the cards in any negotiation.
  • To me, Brexit is easy.
  • The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history.

With the pro-Brexit elite telling this to people, it is no wonder that there was delusion about the potential upside.
 
From the looks of things, I doubt that May can get this deal through her own parliament. The latest is that the Brexiteers now want a Norway style deal, yet these morons still don't realise that it won't solve the border problem and the resulting No Deal exit will cripple the UK.

 
Last edited:
Captain Obvious striking fast, striking hard!

Economic forecasts strike blow to Theresa May's Brexit deal
Bank and Treasury predictions showing UK would be better off within EU undermine PM’s position

Dan Sabbagh and Richard Partington

Wed 28 Nov 2018 22.30 GMT
Theresa May’s campaign to sell her Brexit deal to sceptical MPs and a divided country ran into further difficulties when a string of official economic forecasts concluded that the UK would be better off remaining in the European Union.

The Bank of England said on Wednesday that GDP would have been at least 1% higher in five years’ time if the UK had voted to remain, while an official Whitehall analysis concluded that in all Brexit scenarios, including May’s final deal, the UK would be worse off.

Mark Carney, the governor of the Bank of England, added that in the worst scenario, an unlikely “disorderly no-deal” Brexit, the economy would contract by 8%, house prices would tumble by 30% and interest rates would rise to combat inflation.

Whole article:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...casts-strike-blow-to-theresa-mays-brexit-deal
 
Does anyone still seriously believe there is a place in the multiverse where Brexit is a good idea?
 
JDragon said:
Does anyone still seriously believe there is a place in the multiverse where Brexit is a good idea?
Click to expand...

yeah. Anyone who wants British meddling and influence out of the EU so the EU can actually become a paneuropean union free of atlantic/Anglo influence. Now only the EU needs to address the migration issue or it will split in half with nationalist states leaving owing to their white identity euro pride (logically so).


The american hypocrites whom i despise even seem to agree. And have routinely made light of the fact that the UK pushes it and American elite agenda and not european. Brzezinski talked about that by the way. In any case the ATLANTIC council is agreeing with Trump and witht he hard line brexiters that May´s plan is bad for the UK. Idk how any Brit can see this and possibly be happy at NOT having a say in trade policy for a few years and just giving all that to the EU. It should set off alarms on soviergenty etc

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blog...-make-a-us-uk-trade-agreement-highly-unlikely
 
deise69 said:
How exactly is Brexit going to be good for jobs, when 44% of all their exports go to the EU ?
Click to expand...

Not jobs, downward pressure on wages. It isn't good for the UK's middle class to be in competition with eastern Europe.

If I lived in Latvia, I would be all about being in the EU.
 
VivaRevolution said:
Not jobs, downward pressure on wages. It isn't good for the UK's middle class to be in competition with eastern Europe.

If I lived in Latvia, I would be all about being in the EU.
Click to expand...
How are you separating the 2? I don't want to put words in your mouth but it reads like you're saying that it's okay if this hurts the jobs so long as the downward pressure on wages is relieved?

Fewer jobs but more money per job.
 
<6>


Northern Ireland will be allowed to operate just 60 lorries in the Republic of Ireland in the event of a no-deal Brexit, threatening disaster for businesses on both sides of the Irish border.

In a no-deal scenario, all commercial drivers in the UK would be reclassified as third-country operators requiring special permits to operate in the EU.

This spells chaos for the Dover-Calais route, which 11,000 trucks cross each day, and has special consequences in Ireland, where 13,000 cross-border journeys are made daily, transporting everything from bread to Guinness to cement.

The Department for Transport told the Freight Transport Association (FTA) this week that only 984 annual European Conference of Ministers of Transport (ECMT) permits would be issued for 2019.

It has warned hauliers that if the UK leaves the EU with no deal then they may need these permits to transport goods within the EU or EEA, but the Department for Infrastructure in Belfast has said just 60 permits will be issued in Northern Ireland.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...b0de80e896f9d6#block-5c011988e4b0de80e896f9d6
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

LeonardoBjj
Economy Brexit has completely failed for UK, say clear majority of Britons – poll
8 9 10
Replies
183
Views
6K
Andy Capp
Andy Capp

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,112
Messages
55,468,132
Members
174,786
Latest member
plasterby

Share this page

Back
Top