International Brexit's New Imported Food Tax

[USA!USA!]

This saddens me, but its yet another good lesson for the rest of the world of the price you pay when you let morons make decisions for your country.

People who were pro-Brexit claiming "I was pushed to do this! Your side shouldn't have insulted me!" are literal children.. hurting your own country because your feelings were hurt LMAO

 

[hitcher]

What do you mean I didn't understand the problem? We had a massive increase in immigration once we signed up to freedom of movement with the EU. All the very clever left wing people said this was not going to happen and it was just right wing scaremongering. Turns out the fears were justified.

Straw Admits 'Spectacular' Immigration Mistake

The former home secretary admits Labour wildly underestimated the number of eastern Europeans that would come to the UK to work.

news.sky.com

Eastern Europeans are likely the least problematic immigration group in the UK.

 

[BigDeadFreak]

If people don't trust a plurality of the political parties, international statesmen, economic data/projections and a complete lack of any logical argumentation as to why its a stupid idea, where else do you go? It's not like the leave campaign did any less insulting campaigning - quite the opposite.

I know exactly one person who admits regretting voting for brexit. I'd love to see some polling. There has been an aggregate shift in attitudes towards it but I would have thought that would be both demographic and non voting types.

That plurality of people where the ones who had been in charge for years and oversaw the collapse of the economy in 2008. They were telling us to carry on trusting them when it was their system that had seen inequality rising for years, the bailing out of the banks who had caused the crash and then austerity imposed on the public pay for it all.

Greece tried to go against the grain and the EU threatened to destroy them as punishment.

The EU is beset by virtually non-existent growth, uncontrollable immigration, cultural stagnation, lack of innovation, unachievable net zero policies, energy dependence and military impotence.

The European Parliament itself is an undemocratic mess. Most Remainers didn't even bother to vote in the elections and had no idea who their MEPs were, let alone the various presidents.

I've never known anything like the remain campaign. Normally when people lose they recognise that they fucked up and try to do better next time. Doubling down on the idea that your opponents are all thick is hilarious. If you guys were half as clever as you think you are we'd still be in the EU.

 

[FIMN]

That plurality of people where the ones who had been in charge for years and oversaw the collapse of the economy in 2008. They were telling us to carry on trusting them when it was their system that had seen inequality rising for years, the bailing out of the banks who had caused the crash and then austerity imposed on the public pay for it all.

Greece tried to go against the grain and the EU threatened to destroy them as punishment.

The EU is beset by virtually non-existent growth, uncontrollable immigration, cultural stagnation, lack of innovation, unachievable net zero policies, energy dependence and military impotence.

The European Parliament itself is an undemocratic mess. Most Remainers didn't even bother to vote in the elections and had no idea who their MEPs were, let alone the various presidents.

I've never known anything like the remain campaign. Normally when people lose they recognise that they fucked up and try to do better next time. Doubling down on the idea that your opponents are all thick is hilarious. If you guys were half as clever as you think you are we'd still be in the EU.

So I'm guessing you believe that leaving the EU has solved or made better, any of the problems you allude to? Just trying to understand your position here.

The bolded part is interesting - you think the remain campaign ought to be allowed to have another go? Another referendum?

 

[BigDeadFreak]

So I'm guessing you believe that leaving the EU has solved or made better, any of the problems you allude to? Just trying to understand your position here.

The bolded part is interesting - you think the remain campaign ought to be allowed to have another go? Another referendum?

No, it's achieved virtually nothing. The Tories have ignored the main reason people wanted to leave (immigration) and actually made it worse.

With regards to another referendum, having one now would be ridiculous as we've only just left. I was more referring to the fact that most left wing people in Britain still don't know how to talk to people they disagree with.

We're set to have a Labour government within the next few months. Normally when a party has been out of power for a long time they use that opportunity to build a consensus for how they are going to use their power once they achieve it. The left have not done this. Most left wing people can barely stand to be in a room with someone on the right, let alone talk to them. They just insult everyone who disagrees with them and then can't understand why they never win. Either that or they obsess over petty and divisive culture war nonsense which just irritates people.

As a result, Labour will win without a mandate from the public to do anything meaningful with their power. It's a constant battle for Keir Starmer to control the loonies in his party and everyone know most of them hate their own country.

This comedian does a good job summing it up.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

The EU is beset by virtually non-existent growth, uncontrollable immigration, cultural stagnation, lack of innovation, unachievable net zero policies, energy dependence and military impotence.

No, it's achieved virtually nothing. The Tories have ignored the main reason people wanted to leave (immigration) and actually made it worse.

this basically sums up the whole mess.

 

[curryjunkie]

No, it's achieved virtually nothing. The Tories have ignored the main reason people wanted to leave (immigration) and actually made it worse.

With regards to another referendum, having one now would be ridiculous as we've only just left. I was more referring to the fact that most left wing people in Britain still don't know how to talk to people they disagree with.

We're set to have a Labour government within the next few months. Normally when a party has been out of power for a long time they use that opportunity to build a consensus for how they are going to use their power once they achieve it. The left have not done this. Most left wing people can barely stand to be in a room with someone on the right, let alone talk to them. They just insult everyone who disagrees with them and then can't understand why they never win. Either that or they obsess over petty and divisive culture war nonsense which just irritates people.

As a result, Labour will win without a mandate from the public to do anything meaningful with their power. It's a constant battle for Keir Starmer to control the loonies in his party and everyone know most of them hate their own country.

This comedian does a good job summing it up.

sooo much projection in this post

 

[deise69]

Oh yeah, sovereignty is such a meaningless slogan isn't it. Maybe you could go and tell that to all those silly Irish people. George Washington too while we're at it.

And while we're on the subject of dickheads, if the dickheads who run our country had listened when the British people repeatedly asked for immigration to be reduced we might still be in the EU. Maybe if the galaxy brained Remainers hadn't spent the whole campaign calling us thick racist cunts we might still be in the EU.

Oh well, you know best.

As an Irish person, I can say you haven't a fucking clue about anything you just posted. Theres a world of difference between freely joining a union and having a democratic vote to then leave and being invaded and having to fight to free yourself from a bunch of genocidal invaders.

If "thick racist cunts" like yourself, keep voting in "thick racist cunts", then what do you expect ? The EU is better off without you.

 

[FIMN]

No, it's achieved virtually nothing. The Tories have ignored the main reason people wanted to leave (immigration) and actually made it worse.

With regards to another referendum, having one now would be ridiculous as we've only just left. I was more referring to the fact that most left wing people in Britain still don't know how to talk to people they disagree with.

We're set to have a Labour government within the next few months. Normally when a party has been out of power for a long time they use that opportunity to build a consensus for how they are going to use their power once they achieve it. The left have not done this. Most left wing people can barely stand to be in a room with someone on the right, let alone talk to them. They just insult everyone who disagrees with them and then can't understand why they never win. Either that or they obsess over petty and divisive culture war nonsense which just irritates people.

As a result, Labour will win without a mandate from the public to do anything meaningful with their power. It's a constant battle for Keir Starmer to control the loonies in his party and everyone know most of them hate their own country.

This comedian does a good job summing it up.

Well you're certainly showing yourself to be a calm ambassador for the tolerant political class, so well done I suppose.

People said that brexit was going to be a shitfest, and they were correct, and you, rather than admit you got sold a bill of goods, blame the people who told you the truth. Its them who are the dysfunctional and intolerant. Definitely not you.

 

[Siver!]

No, it's achieved virtually nothing. The Tories have ignored the main reason people wanted to leave (immigration) and actually made it worse.

With regards to another referendum, having one now would be ridiculous as we've only just left. I was more referring to the fact that most left wing people in Britain still don't know how to talk to people they disagree with.

We're set to have a Labour government within the next few months. Normally when a party has been out of power for a long time they use that opportunity to build a consensus for how they are going to use their power once they achieve it. The left have not done this. Most left wing people can barely stand to be in a room with someone on the right, let alone talk to them. They just insult everyone who disagrees with them and then can't understand why they never win. Either that or they obsess over petty and divisive culture war nonsense which just irritates people.

As a result, Labour will win without a mandate from the public to do anything meaningful with their power. It's a constant battle for Keir Starmer to control the loonies in his party and everyone know most of them hate their own country.

This comedian does a good job summing it up.

What are you planning on voting next out, out of interest?

I see you blame the Tories for both promising solutions to immigration and not delivering (right wing parties never deliver on immigration, they need it to return to every time they lose), but I'm guessing you're not big on Labour doing that?

Are you going Reform?

(this is not a leading question or a trap, btw)

 

[BigDeadFreak]

What are you planning on voting next out, out of interest?

I see you blame the Tories for both promising solutions to immigration and not delivering (right wing parties never deliver on immigration, they need it to return to every time they lose), but I'm guessing you're not big on Labour doing that?

Are you going Reform?

(this is not a leading question or a trap, btw)

I’ve almost completely lost faith in anyone sorting out immigration. Reform have no chance of getting in, Labour won’t reduce it and neither will the Tories.

Current net migration is over 700,000 a year. We’d have to build two cities a year just to house all those people. It’s impossible to maintain but no one wants to address it.

We’ve got a housing crisis that we can’t solve by building infinite houses so the numbers have to come down eventually.

What would you suggest we do?

 

[Siver!]

I’ve almost completely lost faith in anyone sorting out immigration. Reform have no chance of getting in, Labour won’t reduce it and neither will the Tories.

Current net migration is over 700,000 a year. We’d have to build two cities a year just to house all those people. It’s impossible to maintain but no one wants to address it.

We’ve got a housing crisis that we can’t solve by building infinite houses so the numbers have to come down eventually.

What would you suggest we do?

I'd just monitor immigration for now.

• International students. The largest single group explaining the rise was international students and their dependants, accounting for 43% of the increase from 2019 to the year ending June 2023. The UK has an explicit strategy of increasing and diversifying foreign student recruitment, and it is also plausible that the reintroduction of post-study work rights post-Brexit has made the UK more attractive to international students.
• Skilled workers: 37% of the increase in long-term immigration from 2019 to the year ending June 2023 resulted from those arriving for work purposes—particularly skilled workers—and their dependants. Health and care was the main industry driving the growth, including care workers who received access to the immigration system in February 2022. There has also been higher demand for some workers who were already eligible for visas under the old system, such as doctors and nurses.

There's also been in increase in those coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong for the 2023 figures, which isn't surprising, or wrong.

• High levels of non-EU visa grants cannot be assumed to be a ‘new normal’. The future outlook for visa grants is always uncertain. However, some of the recent contributors to non-EU immigration are not expected to continue indefinitely, such as the arrival of Ukrainian refugees.
• Higher immigration usually leads to higher emigration because most non-EU citizens on work and study eventually leave the UK. But the expected emigration typically takes 1-3 years to materialise. This means that estimates of net migration may be unusually high over the next couple of years before emigration catches up.
• Recent immigration patterns are not simply the result of the end of free movement and the introduction of the post-Brexit immigration policy. The Ukraine visa schemes were not part of the policy for replacing free movement, for example. The post-Brexit system is likely to have had some impact on non-EU visa grants, however, for example, via the extension of work visas to care workers and seasonal workers and the decision to grant international students post-study work rights.

At the minute, I see little to be concerned or worried about. I'm not expert enough to really gauge whether the massive increase in students is a worthwhile endeavour, but it does need managing re: housing - which it doesn't seem to have been. As usual, the Tories prefer to make changes first, and address the problems they cause well down the line. They're can kickers. More specialized student accommodation is an essential, and many care workers coming in from outside the EU are provided some form of housing by their employers.

The question isn't "what do we do about immigration" it's more "what aspects of immigration need dealing with first". Big number scary doesn't really do it for me.

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Sovereignty is never meaningless considering people throughout history have died seeking it for themselves and others.

 

[JadeOwl]

I've never known anything like the remain campaign. Normally when people lose they recognise that they fucked up and try to do better next time. Doubling down on the idea that your opponents are all thick is hilarious.

Why should they do such a thing when time and reality has proven them right in everything they said?

The people who voted to leave were thick AF imbeciles, who were too stupid to recognized that the Leave campaign was telling them was a load of bullshit, or too racist to care.

They kneecapped their own country's economic development for a generation for no gain whatsoever.

 

[woodguyatl]

If people don't trust a plurality of the political parties, international statesmen, economic data/projections and a complete lack of any logical argumentation as to why its a stupid idea, where else do you go? It's not like the leave campaign did any less insulting campaigning - quite the opposite.

I know exactly one person who admits regretting voting for brexit. I'd love to see some polling. There has been an aggregate shift in attitudes towards it but I would have thought that would be both demographic and non voting types.

While they may not regret the vote, about 1/3 or Leave voters say Brexit has been more of a failure than a success.

‘Bregret’ among Leave voters hits record high, poll finds

Seven years on from the UK’s decision to leave the European Union, more Brexiteers than ever regret their decision

www.independent.co.uk

 

[BigDeadFreak]

I'd just monitor immigration for now.

• International students. The largest single group explaining the rise was international students and their dependants, accounting for 43% of the increase from 2019 to the year ending June 2023. The UK has an explicit strategy of increasing and diversifying foreign student recruitment, and it is also plausible that the reintroduction of post-study work rights post-Brexit has made the UK more attractive to international students.
• Skilled workers: 37% of the increase in long-term immigration from 2019 to the year ending June 2023 resulted from those arriving for work purposes—particularly skilled workers—and their dependants. Health and care was the main industry driving the growth, including care workers who received access to the immigration system in February 2022. There has also been higher demand for some workers who were already eligible for visas under the old system, such as doctors and nurses.

There's also been in increase in those coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong for the 2023 figures, which isn't surprising, or wrong.

• High levels of non-EU visa grants cannot be assumed to be a ‘new normal’. The future outlook for visa grants is always uncertain. However, some of the recent contributors to non-EU immigration are not expected to continue indefinitely, such as the arrival of Ukrainian refugees.
• Higher immigration usually leads to higher emigration because most non-EU citizens on work and study eventually leave the UK. But the expected emigration typically takes 1-3 years to materialise. This means that estimates of net migration may be unusually high over the next couple of years before emigration catches up.
• Recent immigration patterns are not simply the result of the end of free movement and the introduction of the post-Brexit immigration policy. The Ukraine visa schemes were not part of the policy for replacing free movement, for example. The post-Brexit system is likely to have had some impact on non-EU visa grants, however, for example, via the extension of work visas to care workers and seasonal workers and the decision to grant international students post-study work rights.

At the minute, I see little to be concerned or worried about. I'm not expert enough to really gauge whether the massive increase in students is a worthwhile endeavour, but it does need managing re: housing - which it doesn't seem to have been. As usual, the Tories prefer to make changes first, and address the problems they cause well down the line. They're can kickers. More specialized student accommodation is an essential, and many care workers coming in from outside the EU are provided some form of housing by their employers.

The question isn't "what do we do about immigration" it's more "what aspects of immigration need dealing with first". Big number scary doesn't really do it for me.

Between 2021 and 2022 the population of the UK increase by around 550,000 people. That's roughly the size of Edinburgh. You can't just monitor that, you have to actually do something about it. Otherwise, where are those people going to live? Do you expect them to roam the countryside like wild animals?

UK population 2022 | Statista

In 2022, the population of the United Kingdom reached almost 67.6 million, compared with 63.7 million ten years earlier in 2012.

www.statista.com

It is completely impossible to construct an entire city the size of Edinburgh in 12 months in the UK. That's not just houses, it's rail networks, roads, hospitals, schools, sewage processing, powestations, etc.

Even if we did do that (which we can't) how many years do you think we can sustain that for? We're already having to build on the green belt just to ease the current housing crisis. Do we not need the countryside anymore?

The fact is immigration has to come down, there's no debate about that. It's not racist to say that, it's a basic fact.

 

[Siver!]

Between 2021 and 2022 the population of the UK increase by around 550,000 people. That's roughly the size of Edinburgh. You can't just monitor that, you have to actually do something about it. Otherwise, where are those people going to live? Do you expect them to roam the countryside like wild animals?

UK population 2022 | Statista

In 2022, the population of the United Kingdom reached almost 67.6 million, compared with 63.7 million ten years earlier in 2012.

www.statista.com

It is completely impossible to construct an entire city the size of Edinburgh in 12 months in the UK. That's not just houses, it's rail networks, roads, hospitals, schools, sewage processing, powestations, etc.

Even if we did do that (which we can't) how many years do you think we can sustain that for? We're already having to build on the green belt just to ease the current housing crisis. Do we not need the countryside anymore?

The fact is immigration has to come down, there's no debate about that. It's not racist to say that, it's a basic fact.

I'm not saying it's racist, but we don't really need to talk about building entire new cities.

The Tories (as usual) failed to meet their own targets. They built 210,000 houses instead of 300,000 in 22/23.

Assuming not all of those houses will be single occupant, 300,000 houses should/would be able to house a very large percentage of those 550,000, but again, many will be housed anyway if they're students or careworkers.

Our population isn't going up that fast anyway. Our population increase wasn't 550,000 in 2023, it was about 230,000, and that looks pretty stable.

International students do count on the census, too, so there's no reason to think we can't accommodate those immigrating to the UK. It looks to me like we're more than capable.

Do any of the stats about population increase and building targets suggest to you that we're struggling to create enough housing?

 

[BigDeadFreak]

I'm not saying it's racist, but we don't really need to talk about building entire new cities.

The Tories (as usual) failed to meet their own targets. They built 210,000 houses instead of 300,000 in 22/23.

Assuming not all of those houses will be single occupant, 300,000 houses should/would be able to house a very large percentage of those 550,000, but again, many will be housed anyway if they're students or careworkers.

Our population isn't going up that fast anyway. Our population increase wasn't 550,000 in 2023, it was about 230,000, and that looks pretty stable.

International students do count on the census, too, so there's no reason to think we can't accommodate those immigrating to the UK. It looks to me like we're more than capable.

Do any of the stats about population increase and building targets suggest to you that we're struggling to create enough housing?

Yes, we are struggling to create enough housing. There's a well documented housing crisis as I'm sure you know. There's endless information about this out there, here is just one website that talks about it but there's plenty of others:

The housing crisis is still being underplayed

Young adults are being robbed of the milestones that marked the lives of previous generations

www.ft.com

You still haven't answered the question about how long you plan to build new houses and other necessary facilities? Even if your stats are right and it's 230,000 per year that's still roughly the population of Luton. You must surely concede that this can't be sustained indefinitely and the numbers have to come down eventually.

 

[Siver!]

Yes, we are struggling to create enough housing. There's a well documented housing crisis as I'm sure you know. There's endless information about this out there, here is just one website that talks about it but there's plenty of others:

The housing crisis is still being underplayed

Young adults are being robbed of the milestones that marked the lives of previous generations

www.ft.com

You still haven't answered the question about how long you plan to build new houses and other necessary facilities? Even if your stats are right and it's 230,000 per year that's still roughly the population of Luton. You must surely concede that this can't be sustained indefinitely and the numbers have to come down eventually.

There is a housing crisis in the UK and the USA, but it's more to do with prices than anything else in my opinion. I do not accept that housing prices are unacceptable because of immigration, net migration, or population increase. They're so high because of chronic mismanagement from banks who have lent far too much. As more and more money is lent, house prices go up (faster than wages), meaning more and more money has to be lent, meaning house prices can continue to go up, etc., and more and more young wage earners get left behind.

The only people benefiting are the banks and the uber-rich.

Again.

If the UK has serous issues, it's not coming from outside, it's always been within, at the top.

 

[avenue94]

I’ve almost completely lost faith in anyone sorting out immigration. Reform have no chance of getting in, Labour won’t reduce it and neither will the Tories.

Current net migration is over 700,000 a year. We’d have to build two cities a year just to house all those people. It’s impossible to maintain but no one wants to address it.

We’ve got a housing crisis that we can’t solve by building infinite houses so the numbers have to come down eventually.

What would you suggest we do?

The UK's birth rate is 1.5. The country needs migration and it should actually try to harness it instead of having its cake and eating it too (we hate migrants even though we actually need them)