But but but billionaires! waaahhhhhhhh

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

I don't think anyone likes getting taxed period.

It takes a special kind of greedy, psychotic, douchebag to complain about taxes when theyre in the top .0001% of income in the world.

Also, without taxes you'd have a country like Somalia with zhit roads, corrupt police and government, pirates roaming the high seas, and millions literally running out of the country like Somalis are now. Thats what you greedy dickbags dont understand.

Lets see, choose between living in Somalia and Switzerland, hmmm tough choice bro.

 

[The Russian]

So how come the average man wages not following the 2%inflation each year?

 

[sub_thug]

And what rights do you have when the government bashes you on the head and takes your stuff?

That’s the whole point of keeping an armed population to overthrow a tyrannical government. If they come for you and your rights, shoot back.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Right now, the average middle class person, shit even lower class person in the Western World has a better life than Absolute Monarchs in the 19th Century.....

I was waiting for someone to bring out this awesome argument again

 

[sub_thug]

Automation and the unending pursuit for artificial intelligence. I'm a Futurist by passion, and i've advocated on here many a time that automation is going to eventually lead to a socialist society by virtue of necessity. Eventually you reach a point where there's not enough jobs to go around, and labor will be devalued to the point that it's just not feasible to employ everyone. That's where a UBI and social support comes into the picture as the logical next step. We would stay in that holding pattern until the advent of a strong AI, at which point labor effectively become useless very quickly at a large scale. Skilled, unskilled, specialty, all of it. When the robots can repair and work themselves, we've removed ourselves entirely from the supply chain. Communism is inevitable at that point assuming that we want to keep our notion of a "healthy society" intact. The alternative is some shit out of 1780 France, or the Animatrix at the absolute worst case.

Where I differ from most people is that I propose that this is the natural end state of Capitalism. The unending cycle of more efficiency and more profit lends itself very well to a hypothetical destruction of labor (and then capital) as a whole. We won't need a proletarian revolution to see it come to fruition, all we have to do is keep pushing innovation and automation. The rest works itself out.

So I don't necessarily disagree with you. I think that what you're saying is entirely possible, and I've heard more than a few people say similar things. The only thing that I will add is that the future is more of a series of possible probabilities rather than a singular outcome, so the future may take many branching forms. As such, since we are talking about such a major industrial revolution, there will be so many things happening that it is impossible to precisely predict all of the second and third-order effects. I can't say that labor and capital will disappear, although that certainly seems possible. I think a big concern will be how centralized the AI will be. That's probably the biggest question out there, as that will really be the means of production, as you've correctly pointed out.

 

[Jack V Savage]

While I haven't read Bakunin enough to know exactly what his specifics were, I know that later anarchists certainly didn't think the state should be dismantled without anything to replace it.

Anarcho-syndicalists were probably the clearest in this regard because they felt that networks of workers' associations would take the place of the state in creating this idealized society. And of course, anarchist Catalonia developed this idea the furthest and had pretty good results before it was attacked and estroyed

Getting rid of the state without democratic institutions to replace it would mean complete chaos and tyranny. Only the Rothbard libertarians would be ok with that.

Understood that anarchists had more of a plan than just wrecking everything, but my point was that the issue of disagreement was whether you start by dismantling the state or start by taking the means of production using the state. The second approach has been tried many times and it never works (and Bakunin notably predicted the failure). The first would likely have its own issues but they'd be different.

 

[Limbo Pete]

That’s the whole point of keeping an armed population to overthrow a tyrannical government. If they come for you and your rights, shoot back.

For what it's worth, the whole "we need a well regulated militia" thing had mostly to do with protecting the wealthy from the poor in a post-war climate that struggled economically to deliver prosperity to the lower classes.

 

[Satsui Ryu]

I agree.

The only problem is that the Nazis were explicitly socialist, in both name and deed.

Also to correct you from earlier, the Nazis nationalized iron ore and steel Works Industries in 1937. This was years before the War began, and also contradicts your assertion that the Nazis only nationalize Industries during wartime.

When you plan on conquering nations you'd plan ahead rather than waiting for the day before. And the US engaged in similar tactics during the war as well by essentially force allocating resources to the government.

And the clearly right wing part of the Nazi's, that ultra nationalist part, is what got people killed, not their desire for infrastructure or something.

 

[helltoupee]

Where I differ from most people is that I propose that this is the natural end state of Capitalism

Wasn't this Marx's whole idea behind automatons and the gradual dissipation of labor?

 

[Makani]

Is there a word for white knight thats for rich people and not women?

Legislators.

 

[Falsedawn]

Wasn't this Marx's whole idea behind automatons and the gradual dissipation of labor?

Marx did heavily expound on this in Grundrisse, though he still posits that it would take a proletarian revolution once labor is devalued in order to mark the shift to socialism. Marx had no concept of machine intelligence, that is to say, he saw the automatons as fixed capital owned by bourgeois classes and maintained by proletarian classes. I tend to think further down the road when automatons gain some degree of independence in creation, maintenance, and further proliferation of themselves. I don't necessarily see the need for a proletarian revolution when it becomes a matter of staving societal decay on a wide scale.

Granted, you could see the revolution as large scale political action or violence depending on your lean, but I don't even think it goes that far. Maybe it's the optimist inside me, but I feel like it would be more like the Glorious Revolution than the October Revolution. When labor is devalued enough that circulating capital is no longer circulating, previously bourgeois classes will capitalize on the new currency of social recognition and willfully transition to a more philanthropic system in order to try and "corner the market" so to speak. The reputation of the person/organization would allow them to capture remaining resources (capital and otherwise), and the byproduct of that is a society where each is tended to via their needs, and work (especially scientific work, building off the currency of social recognition) is accomplished due to ability. Sounds pretty communist to me.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

It takes a special kind of greedy, psychotic, douchebag to complain about taxes when theyre in the top .0001% of income in the world.

Also, without taxes you'd have a country like Somalia with zhit roads, corrupt police and government, pirates roaming the high seas, and millions literally running out of the country like Somalis are now. Thats what you greedy dickbags dont understand.

Lets see, choose between living in Somalia and Switzerland, hmmm tough choice bro.

Yes, when will those born into wealth billionaires ever get a break in American. Finally their time has come

 

[AnGrYcRoW]

I rate this thread a....

-2000 out of 10 for sheer stupidity..

I think you were a tad generous on your assessmnt.

 

[tehend]

It takes a special kind of greedy, psychotic, douchebag to complain about taxes when theyre in the top .0001% of income in the world.

Also, without taxes you'd have a country like Somalia with zhit roads, corrupt police and government, pirates roaming the high seas, and millions literally running out of the country like Somalis are now. Thats what you greedy dickbags dont understand.

Lets see, choose between living in Somalia and Switzerland, hmmm tough choice bro.

So everything built before income tax is fake?

 

[HomerThompson]

Marx did heavily expound on this in Grundrisse, though he still posits that it would take a proletarian revolution once labor is devalued in order to mark the shift to socialism. Marx had no concept of machine intelligence, that is to say, he saw the automatons as fixed capital owned by bourgeois classes and maintained by proletarian classes. I tend to think further down the road when automatons gain some degree of independence in creation, maintenance, and further proliferation of themselves. I don't necessarily see the need for a proletarian revolution when it becomes a matter of staving societal decay on a wide scale.

Granted, you could see the revolution as large scale political action or violence depending on your lean, but I don't even think it goes that far. Maybe it's the optimist inside me, but I feel like it would be more like the Glorious Revolution than the October Revolution. When labor is devalued enough that circulating capital is no longer circulating, previously bourgeois classes will capitalize on the new currency of social recognition and willfully transition to a more philanthropic system in order to try and "corner the market" so to speak. The reputation of the person/organization would allow them to capture remaining resources (capital and otherwise), and the byproduct of that is a society where each is tended to via their needs, and work (especially scientific work, building off the currency of social recognition) is accomplished due to ability. Sounds pretty communist to me.

 

[HomerThompson]

Yes, when will those born into wealth billionaires ever get a break in American. Finally their time has come

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

There is a Mr burns Gif for just about every topic known to man

 

[Falsedawn]

 

[sub_thug]

For what it's worth, the whole "we need a well regulated militia" thing had mostly to do with protecting the wealthy from the poor in a post-war climate that struggled economically to deliver prosperity to the lower classes.

That’s not true. It came from a lot of reasons, not least of which was the belief that state militias would need to be called upon to supplement regular forces against the British. It was also established as a concession to the Anti-Federalists (like Patrick Henry) who were still arguing that a regular army was a mechanism for federal overreach. Of course, handling Indians, the Spanish, and Mexico were all obvious concerns. Finally, keeping muskets and mustering in town was just a cultural thing that people did back then. Part of being in the local militia isn’t much different than the National Guard today: they get together and drink their asses off.

 

[tehend]

Make this into an AV so I may steal it.