Cal Professor who went on Barbara Bush 'racist' rant may not be saved by tenure, could lose job

Looks like an all round lovely person

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Dont know about the Bush women but Bush Jr deserves all the hate in the world, his dad was a decent president but he also did some things that ought to put him on fire.
 
HIMBOB said:
Is there?
Where?
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Someone in this thread already posted her article about how it offends her when white women take up belly dancing. When one presumes to tell people what activities are or are not acceptable for them to engage in based on the color of their skin, it's a textbook example of racism. Almost everyone, with some exceptions, who complains about cultural appropriation is a racist.

Here's a link: https://www.salon.com/2014/03/04/why_i_cant_stand_white_belly_dancers/
 
nixkid said:
It is rather funny that whenever a old white guy says something racist, you'll get this long line of people chiming in about how "they don't agree with what was said" but that they "are concerned with how quickly this country is abandoning free speech" trying to quell any call for some sort of consequences (strictly on philosophical ground because clearly they find what was said abhorrent but they are just so principled).

Then you get a situation like this and half of them are either calling for consequences or *crickets*.

We literally just had people on this forum defending a racist elementary school teacher's "right" to be openly racist even though she admitted to trying to spread WN ideas in the classroom (also said that you have to teach races differently which brings her impartiality into question).

Saying racist things = protected free speech
calling someone a racist = well..we can't have that can we?
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Fawlty said:
Very cut and dry on the 'free speech in academia' issue here. For every single person who is (fake) concerned about free speech when it comes to guest speakers, this is a tenured professor, by comparison. You should clearly be coming to this woman's defense. If you don't, you do not actually hold your principle (but we already knew you didn't).

On the other hand, if she spouts off like this in the classroom, her peers and the better students should put the ol' academic rigor to her, and hold her to account for the things she says.
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I've never seen a principled (as opposed to practical--see Nix's post above) defense of free speech from the right here.
 
BEER said:
This. Unless you are putting yourself in a position to actively harm people, your opinion shouldn't result in the loss of a job.

What she said was tasteless, at best. She deserves every ounce of criticism she gets for it. But people need to stop this "attempt to get them fired" bullshit everytime someone says something you don't like.
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Yep . . . I'm all for allowing people to speak their minds . . . they just need to be prepared for the crap that comes at them afterwards.
 
Jack V Savage said:
I've never seen a principled (as opposed to practical--see Nix's post above) defense of free speech from the right here.
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Really? I mean, it's rare but, depending on how you categorize "the right here," I think you'll find quite a few who have chimed in to the effect of "I don't agree with XYZ, but that person shouldn't lose their job," etc.

Maybe not ultra-layered, but I'm sure that some like Greoric or Arkain have said as much.
 
Trotsky said:
Really? I mean, it's rare but, depending on how you categorize "the right here," I think you'll find quite a few who have chimed in to the effect of "I don't agree with XYZ, but that person shouldn't lose their job," etc.

Maybe not ultra-layered, but I'm sure that some like Greoric or Arkain have said as much.
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I don't recall any posts of Arkain other than his awful OPs or whining. Has the guy ever actually discussed an issue here? Greoric is big on bosses' authority so I'd be surprised if he ever defended a worker on anything.

But some offhand comment like the example you gave could have slipped my notice, for sure.
 
Jack V Savage said:
I don't recall any posts of Arkain other than his awful OPs or whining. Has the guy ever actually discussed an issue here? Greoric is big on bosses' authority so I'd be surprised if he ever defended a worker on anything.

But some offhand comment like the example you gave could have slipped my notice, for sure.
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Idk, I was trying to think of a centrist/liberal right wing here and I was drawing blanks.

Anyways, I would expect Greoric to be one of the few rightist to appreciate the distinction between private and public employer, and between private and governmental action, something which the usual free speech crowd just cannot wrap their heads around (see: screaming "free speech" about private citizens protesting speakers, but being just giddy when that public school teacher got fired for dissing the military).
 
Jack V Savage said:
I've never seen a principled (as opposed to practical--see Nix's post above) defense of free speech from the right here.
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I'm neither american nor pro-free speech in all circumstances but I have to defend the professor here. I skimmed over the screenshots and she was impolite but never advocated any form of violence. So I support her right to say what she did.
I believe the assurance that you can speak your mind freely(I believe inciting violence and libel shouldn't be covered by free speech though) is important to the intellectual health of a society. But maybe that puts me into the practical category as I care about a practical goal (intellectual health) not some human right.

Trotsky said:
Really? I mean, it's rare but, depending on how you categorize "the right here," I think you'll find quite a few who have chimed in to the effect of "I don't agree with XYZ, but that person shouldn't lose their job," etc.

Maybe not ultra-layered, but I'm sure that some like Greoric or Arkain have said as much.
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Greoric, at least, is from the libertarian side of the right, so it's expected. I don't remember Arkain posts to be honest.

Regardless of that, what a dumb woman.
I've read a few writings by professor Robert S. Griffin. He did a biography on the late William L. Pierce III, a white nationalist that was also a university professor once. He received a lot of heat due to his sympathetic treatment of Pierce and later on became a white nationalist himself (I guess, he never explicitly identifies as such) but he used academic language and a respectful tone devoid of any insinuations to violence. He kept his job and also his personal life pretty much out of the spotlight.
What this professor Randa Jarrar did is counter-productive. She seems to be part of the pro-Palestinian movement. She just gave ammo to the pro-Israeli camp.
 
Trotsky said:
Idk, I was trying to think of a centrist/liberal right wing here and I was drawing blanks.

Anyways, I would expect Greoric to be one of the few rightist to appreciate the distinction between private and public employer, and between private and governmental action, something which the usual free speech crowd just cannot wrap their heads around (see: screaming "free speech" about private citizens protesting speakers, but being just giddy when that public school teacher got fired for dissing the military).
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Well, I think there's definitely a difference between the gov't restricting speech and a private actor doing it, but I also think that if we truly support free speech (which I see as the ability to tell the truth to best of your ability), we have to support it against all forms of power that try to prevent it, which very much includes employers (in fact, employers are a far greater threat to most people's freedom to speak freely than the gov't). Understanding that there are tradeoffs involved there (there are certainly times when employers firing people for saying stuff is appropriate). The very notion of private power impinging on freedom generally is something that right-wing libertarians cannot recognize--see Greoric's bug-eyed shock at the common-sense notion that right-wing libertarianism is an authoritarian ideology.
 
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Trotsky said:
Idk, I was trying to think of a centrist/liberal right wing here and I was drawing blanks.

Anyways, I would expect Greoric to be one of the few rightist to appreciate the distinction between private and public employer, and between private and governmental action, something which the usual free speech crowd just cannot wrap their heads around (see: screaming "free speech" about private citizens protesting speakers, but being just giddy when that public school teacher got fired for dissing the military).
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That teacher I think would have been taken differently if he was a college professor instead of a high school teacher.

What he said wasn't so much teaching as ranting like an abject asshole and demonizing a whole group of people basically.

Add to that most public jobs, (I know mine for one), you can't use company time to promote/push political ideas to the public or coworkers.

EDIT:
The other thing too... wasn't that high school teacher like a science or math teacher? Why you bringing up politics in science or math?

EDIT 2:
And last it's less WHAT people say quite often and more how. @SmilinDesperado's post below mine kind of made me think of this.

The way this lady is using her free speech to air her criticisms and the way that teacher talked shit about the military is the bigger problem than what they're saying.
 
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El anciano said:
She definitely shouldnt lose her job over this. I hope the University doesnt cave in to right wing loons who want her fired for using her 1st amendment rights.

Amazing how Republicans are all for the First Amendment unless it is someone saying something they dont like. Colin Kaepernick, this woman. the list goes on.
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I am definitely left leaning, and i also happen to teach at a university, so I have a different outlook on this.
All jobs aren't the same. It was silly when right-wingers tried to compare a professional athlete's job to their office job. They are just not comparable. They come with an entirely different set of rules.

For a professor of a public university, I believe you have to have some accountability for your words--much moreso than most other jobs. You represent an institute of higher education. Your words and demeanor should mirror your position.
She should be free to make criticisms, but how she did it was just nasty, and classless.
If I were the dean, I wouldn't want the public to think that she was an accurate representation of what our professors are like.
Her tweets were embarrassing to read.
I really don't understand people these days. This isn't even a generational thing, because old people are doing it too. Why do people find it necessary to basically write up a diary and then show it to the world? Not all things should be said outloud.
 
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