Dear Karate Combat - Why It Doesn't Work

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by AndyMaBobs, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Hotora86

    Hotora86 Movember Belt

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    As someone who has studied 9 different martial arts I fully agree with that quote. Of course I was just joking about you being a "nuthugger".

    Could have guessed it was Buakaw. :)
     
  2. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    On topic, I posted this in the other thread about Karate Combat:

    I've heard from 2 different French fighters who are in Karate Combat that the WKF has had a serious meeting about Karate Combat at the last French championships and have decided that they would boycott Karate Combat and that athletes who participate in Karate Combat would be banned from WKF competitions. Quite harsh but not surprising...
     
  3. Hotora86

    Hotora86 Movember Belt

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    <{cruzshake}>
    What a bunch of assholes. What's their reasoning for this? "Oh no, people will be more entertained by real fighting instead of watching our game of tag"?

    The Olympics have killed TKD (WTF) and partially Judo. Now it's killing Karate. I say boycott the Olympics instead of Karate Combat! :mad:
     
  4. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    It's quite easy to see their reasoning. If their athletes are competing in Karate Combat they're less likely to compete in WKF tournaments, and those athletes are also representing another "promotion".

    I think they're probably concerned about the impact it could have on their tournaments such as not having as many athletes and spectators as a consequence. It could also be pretty bad if WKF fighters get KO'd in Karate Combat.

    WKF Karateka's being banned from the WKF is a pretty big thing as this would mean not being able to participate in National, Continental and World tournaments or even the Olympics which are just around the corner and happening in Japan out of all places!

    The person I talked to who fought in Karate Combat will most likely not fight in Karate Combat again because of this reason.
     
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  5. Odysseus

    Odysseus Orange Belt

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    Great point. I had not considered the business-minded perspective of the WKF, but it makes sense. I think that in the long run, we need more full-contact promotions like Karate Combat to keep a modern-day interest in Karate, as well as evolve and refine the art to make it more combat effective.
     
  6. Azam

    Azam Purple Belt

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    It's a bit retarded tbh.

    Why can't the WKF just offer another competition rule set on the side that allows full contact instead of banning their members from competing. There's obviously a demand for it - so supply it lol.

    At the end of the day karate in the Olympics will most likely be a one time deal for Japan 2020. I think it very likely won't be there after.

    Chances are the WKF will lose members if it maintains this policy after the Olympics. They will have competitors bow out of the organisation or simply join other organisations that don't care about what competitions rule sets you want to compete in.

    They might have members avoid karate combat for a chance at the Olympics for now but when it's no longer on the table what then?

    Not having an avenue for full contact competition in this day and age is not keeping up with the times. It also woefully under prepares students in that organisation for full contact. I would think the WKF as an organisation should put students quality of instruction first by offering full contact.

    Not discounting semi contact - imho it's best to have a mixture of full contact & semi contact in training. But to have no serious contact should be a concern for anyone in the WKF.
     
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  7. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

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    so basically one more strike for karate combat. WCL was way better, at least they just let them fight without all the music and bs camera angles etc. You know something is bad when something made by Chuck Norris was better.

    Karate Combat is not Chuck Norris approved

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    It's not as retarded as you think. If as an athlete you cannot participate in WKF competitions there's not much you can participate in if you don't fight in Kickboxing or MMA. Think about it, aside from Karate Combat which is still relatively small and sporadic and without a clear future yet, where else can you fight "Karate" which isn't KB or MMA?

    The WKF will not start full contact tournaments just because of Karate Combat, there's a much bigger picture and you have to take into considerations that the styles of Karate affiliated to the WKF are non full contact styles. Very few Karateka's from clubs affiliated to the WKF would want to fight full contact. Another thing also is that there is no money to win in WKF competition, so the WKF would not want to start full contact competition with cash prize to compete against Karate Combat.

    You and I both know that even within Kyokushin there are organisations which refuse to let their fighters participate in tournaments from other organisations, or let fighters from other organisations fight in theirs. I can only image what the thought process would be when we talk about something as big and proud as the WKF.

    Even if we consider that Karate might only be a one time thing for the Japan Olympics in 2020, that's still 2 years away and we have no idea if Karate Combat will even still be alive by then. I'm not being pessimistic here but I've seen what happened to Pro Fight Karate after a couple of a years, and PFK in my opinion was a lot more pleasing to watch than Karate Combat. There's a lot that comes into play than just WKF competitions and the Olympics, there's also having a team to train with, representing your country and getting your costs covered, sponsors etc.

    As someone who has competed in WKF during his teenage years, I can guarantee you that it's not a smart move for a sport Karateka looking to compete to boycott the WKF and become a rodin looking for opportunities outside of the WKF. At least that's if you want to stick to semi-contact Karate, otherwise you pretty much have to switch to combat sports like Kickboxing or MMA, or just not make any money.

    Regarding your comment on the full contact aspect, those styles of Karate which are part of the WKF don't focus on full contact and it's been that way for a long time and will stay that way for years to come. Not everybody wants to do full contact and those who do simply switch to something else. People who do semi-contact Karate are usually happy with that and just stick with that, those who switch to Karate Combat mostly do so as an experiment and to make some money on the side.
     
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  9. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    For ages you had the kyokushin symbol :p damn hotora not knowing you're a karate nerd
     
  10. Hotora86

    Hotora86 Movember Belt

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    Bring back the good'ol days @Tayski ... you also had 極真 in your belt title... :( along with มวยไทย but whatever. :p
     
  11. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    Damn, I didn't know my avatars and belt titles were being scrutinised to that extent :D

    Yeah I did have the Kyokushin kanji for quite a while until I felt I didn't deserve to wear it anymore as I stopped training Kyokushin. So @Hotora86 you knew what "極真" was? :)

    By the way there's nothing wrong with being a Karateka and Nak Muay at the same time guys, I don't have to pick a side. ;) If it makes you feel better Hotora I have done a couple of Kyokushin classes again last week on the side of my MT training!
     
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  12. Hotora86

    Hotora86 Movember Belt

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    Dude, of course I knew what "極真" was. Had to google "มวยไทย" but now I know that as well. ;)

    And of course there's nothing wrong with practicing both arts or more. In fact, that's what original Karate was all about - learning everything you could get your hands on, testing it, adopting what fit and discarding what didn't.

    Kanga Sakugawa began his training as a student of a Ryukyuan monk Peichin Takahara but later spent six years training with Kusanku, a Chinese master in Chuan Fa. Sakugawa's student Sokon Matsumura traveled on behalf of the royal government to Fuzhou where he studied Chuan Fa and to Satsuma where he studied Jigen-ryu. Matsumura's student Anko Asato studied Kendo and Kyudo. Gichin Funakoshi studied under both Asato and Itosu who (reportedly) practiced very different versions of Karate. He was also influenced by Judo founder Jigoro Kano when they became friends in Japan. One of many students of Funakoshi, Hironori Otsuka, mixed Shindo Yoshin-ryu Jujutsu with Shotokan to form Wado-ryu. Mas Oyama mixed Shotokan and Goju to form Kyokushin. And so on and so forth...

    To quote Bruce Lee "Research your own experience, absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, add what is essentially your own. (...) Man, the living creature, the creating individual, is always more important than any established style or system".

    We say that this approach was revolutionary and gave birth to MMA but the Karate masters of old did the very same thing. Cross-training is wisdom. Cross-training is progress. Cross-training is life.
     
  13. ironkhan57

    ironkhan57 Purple Belt

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    I think you can give them that advice on their YouTube channel, if they really want to improve their new found combat sport then they should look at their comments if not they have a facebook page and aTwitter, you may not be able to put that into one tweet but you can link a video of you trying to give them advice on it and they'll probably watch it, I'm dead serious you should do that so they can change and become a better combat sport.
     
  14. Cross_Trainer

    Cross_Trainer Yellow Belt

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    This makes sense. WKF may not need to worry about what happens after the Olympics, because if they starve Karate Combat of its athletes *now*, they may be able to kill it before 2020.
     
  15. Azam

    Azam Purple Belt

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    I'm sure there must be a whole host of other karate tournaments unaffiliated to the WKF. Sure it's the biggest organization but it's competitions are laughed at by most of the karate world. There reputation has dropped off a lot since the 90's.

    Then they will have to accept losing potential stars in their organisation and gradually becoming irrelevant. Most competitors that wish to fight/compete for a living will go to professional MMA, kickboxing or MT - because the financial rewards are far greater than what the WKF can offer. Why would anyone looking to train professionally want to work for free when they can earn doing the same thing in other competition formats & organisations.

    Trying to tell members what they can or can't do outside of the WKF will mean people will leave after the 2020 olympics are done.

    True.

    True.

    Karate politics is insane. Crazy that in this day and age - a group of people miraculously have enough power to tell others what they can or can't do outside of their organization events.
     
  16. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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    Please list that "whole host of other karate tournaments unaffiliated to the WKF" for point fighters who don't do Kickboxing. Trust me, there's barely anything and even if there is it's not on an international level to the same extent. You're not going to represent your country in most countries if you can't participate in WKF tournaments, that's definitely the case for France. You're not gonna get sponsors and state sponsorship if you compete under other smaller orgs. You say their competitions are laughed at by most of the Karate world but that's not true, only full contact styles laugh at it because they're in their own Knockdown / Full Contact bubble (maybe also some traditional Okinawan Karateka's too who barely compete in anything anyway). WKF is much bigger than any full contact Karate org.

    Also, a lot of semi-contact point Karateka's have no interest in going to MMA, Kickboxing or MT which is completely different games and where you already have people settled at the highest level. And to be honest most of them probably don't have the fighter mindset or skills to do so either. You talk about great financial rewards, but in KB and MT there's almost no money unless you're at the top and even in MMA it's hard to make a living unless you're at the top like in Bellator or the UFC for instance. You have to remember that many many point Karateka's who are competing under WKF are amateurs not professionals and tend to have a side job.

    I follow what you're saying and I wish it were true, but the reality is WKF is reigning and they're not going to lose to Karate Combat...
     

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