Dems deal Obama huge defeat on trade. Fast track legislation fails 302-126.

[Bumble_Bee_Tuna]

The point I made is that you were clearly misrepresenting what Pelosi said (or stupidly believing someone else presenting an implausible version of it).

You responded to it by posting Republican hackwork. The posts are still up.



Meow. In reality, you fell for pretty obvious propaganda and passed it on without even realizing that someone would question it, and now you're mad. But look up the actual words (and, again, really just realize that even people who disagree with you are human beings--you seem to have real trouble with that, consistently).

You can whine like an ideological baby but the fact remains, these "public servants" tend to not read the so-called bills they pass. I am sorry you do not like it, but that is the way it is. Instead of refuting that, you whine about how it's all "Republic propaganda." There is no propaganda. Why was the text of the bill not posted to the public? What, are they too dumb to be charged with reading it? And calling me a Republican shows you're an intellectual novice. I am far beyond Republicans, as they are beyond you. You are too locked into the ideological prisms of blue or red. Your analysis needs some improvement.

 

[Adamant]

Now, if the Supreme Court strikes down Obamacare (I'm not saying I think they will), this week would be remembered as the worst week for any President in decades.

Fingers crossed

 

[Jack V Savage]

You can whine like an ideological baby but the fact remains, these "public servants" tend to not read the so-called bills they pass.

So pointing out a dishonest you made is "whining like an ideological baby"? Just want to be clear. I don't have my bitter CTer to English dictionary handy.

I am sorry you do not like it, but that is the way it is. Instead of refuting that, you whine about how it's all "Republic propaganda." There is no propaganda.

You're changing the subject, of course. Legislators have staffs to read bills and get pointed to specific parts they should read generally. You're arguing with something I never said, as usual. I said that Pelosi's statement about the ACA was obviously misrepresented by Republican hacks, and you have blindly accepted that misrepresentation (and then responded with rage not at the people lying to you but at the guy who pointed out that you were being lied to) and dug in and defended it. If you drop the constant anger thing and calmly think about it, you'll see A) the hack misrepresentation of her comments were not plausible and B) if you read the whole text, they're not accurate.

Why was the text of the bill not posted to the public? What, are they too dumb to be charged with reading it?

Huh?

http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/law/

And calling me a Republican shows you're an intellectual novice. I am far beyond Republicans, as they are beyond you. You are too locked into the ideological prisms of blue or red. Your analysis needs some improvement.

I called you a Republican? Where? Try to understand what people are saying before lashing out angrily at them, friend. You'll learn a lot.

 

[FatMoiMoi]

Glad the Dems came through on this one. Fuq the TPP and its globalization agenda. These trade deals are never good for the American people. Jobs will be lost, wages will be pulled down just like NAFTA. Not to mention the possibility that It will shove Monsanto and its frankenfood down the worlds throats (literally). "Oh you dont want to buy our GMO foods ? Well then we will just sue you and force it upon you. Oh yeah and the judges who rule that court will be lawyers that work for Monsanto. That should be pretty fair no?

It's not just American people too. This deal will completely fuck up the rights of sovereign nations and citizens all over the world, whilst transferring even more power into corporate hands. Fucking glad that this fast-track shit didn't get passed.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Good piece from David Frum on it in the Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/-tpp-tpa-defeated/395792/

While he supports it, he ends with this:

The belief that the economic system is rigged in favor of the wealthy and that ordinary people can no longer get ahead run is especially intense. Americans increasingly perceive the rich getting richer, the poor getting poorer. Their view of business corporations has turned especially hostile, very nearly as hostile as their view of government.

Trade is a pro-growth policy. But when the proceeds of growth are not widely shared, and not perceived as widely shared, it becomes difficult to sustain the consensus in favor of pro-growth measures—especially when those measures seem to impose costs on American workers. That’s the warning in today’s congressional action.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Good piece from David Frum on it in the Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/-tpp-tpa-defeated/395792/

While he supports it, he ends with this:

Jack Savage quoting something from David Frum.

I've now seen it all.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Jack Savage quoting something from David Frum.

I've now seen it all.

I never miss Frum, actually, and while I regularly disagree with him, he often gives me something to think about. It's too bad there aren't more smart conservatives out there.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

I never miss Frum, actually, and while I regularly disagree with him, he often gives me something to think about. It's too bad there aren't more smart conservatives out there.

He comes off as the kind of guy who sneaks into his kids room at night and steals coins from their piggy banks.

He always rubs me as dishonest and deceptive. Like a bad used car salesman.

Maybe I need to hear more from him but it seems like his talking points are all in line with typical Neo conservative thinking


Still shocked you quoted him though.

 

[Jack V Savage]

He comes off as the kind of guy who sneaks into his kids room at night and steals coins from their piggy banks.

He always rubs me as dishonest and deceptive. Like a bad used car salesman.

Maybe I need to hear more from him but it seems like his talking points are all in line with typical Neo conservative thinking

Still shocked you quoted him though.

He does seem a little oily when he talks, but he makes good arguments for his positions. I think it's important to hear the best arguments for positions I disagree with (and sometimes he'll change my mind). Don't want to get in the habit of thinking that idiots like Atheist or Second Sight are all that conservatism is about. I also know some smart conservatives in real life and read a few more.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

He does seem a little oily when he talks, but he makes good arguments for his positions. I think it's important to hear the best arguments for positions I disagree with (and sometimes he'll change my mind). Don't want to get in the habit of thinking that idiots like Atheist or Second Sight are all that conservatism is about. I also know some smart conservatives in real life and read a few more.

I've seen Frum on Bill Maher many times and have seen him in interviews and all that jazz, he just seems shady to me.

And I understand your point, if you're gonna listen to the other side it might as well be from someone who knows their shit, not just some Scott Walker type.

That's a good recommendation for anyone, on either side of the party spectrum.


I guess I'll be more shocked when I see you quote Thimas Sowell or Ayn Rand.

 

[2GunTommy]

Good piece from David Frum on it in the Atlantic:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/-tpp-tpa-defeated/395792/

While he supports it, he ends with this:

http://www.citizen.org/TPP

Id say youll get a lot more out of this article than the propaganda coming out of this shills mouth. No facts or stats whatsoever backing that what he is saying is true. He provided no information whatsoever. Cmon he serves on the board of directors for the Republican Jewish Coalition which is a Republican political lobbying group.


"The NAFTA-style offshoring incentives that the TPP would expand have contributed to the net loss of more than 57,000 American manufacturing facilities and nearly 5 million U.S. manufacturing jobs

 

[Jack V Savage]

I guess I'll be more shocked when I see you quote Thimas Sowell or Ayn Rand.

No danger of that happening, unless it's mocking.

Some other good conservative writers are Tyler Cowen (econ guy), Ross Douthat (thoughtful on cultural stuff, not very good on anything else), and Reihan Salam. I like Andrew Sullivan and Josh Barro, but I guess it's debatable whether even of them really count as conservatives these days.

http://www.citizen.org/TPP

The second paragraph there is so blatantly misleading that I kind of lost interest in the rest. A lot of heat on this issue, but not a lot of light. I quoted the best analysis (that also had a lot of links to other good analysis pro and con) in another thread.

 

[emefer]

He comes off as the kind of guy who sneaks into his kids room at night and fondles them.

Fixed

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

Fixed

He does have a "kid touching" vibe to him as well

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

No danger of that happening, unless it's mocking.

Some other good conservative writers are Tyler Cowen (econ guy), Ross Douthat (thoughtful on cultural stuff, not very good on anything else), and Reihan Salam. I like Andrew Sullivan and Josh Barro, but I guess it's debatable whether even of them really count as conservatives these days.



The second paragraph there is so blatantly misleading that I kind of lost interest in the rest. A lot of heat on this issue, but not a lot of light. I quoted the best analysis (that also had a lot of links to other good analysis pro and con) in another thread.

Well it's sherdog so you're allowed to mock away.

And I've heard some stuff from Salam throughout the years.

 

[emefer]

This vote will come up again.
Congress has only voted against the TAA which deals with money budgeted to retrain people that have lost their jobs because of the TPP. IT WOULD CONSIST OF 700 million dollars that would be stripped from midicare.

Congress has shown that they are willing to approve TPA with the symbolic vote that followed. TPA should be of more concern as it strips congress its rights to amend or filibuster any trade deal for the next six years and would leave each of our representatives only 83 seconds to voice their concerns followed by a simple up down vote.

It is completely undemocratic.

Call your congressperson and tell them your concerns and how you would like them to vote.
1-202-224-3121

If you don't know your representative, just tell the operator your zip code and she will let you know and connect you. If you get a machine leave a message otherwise you at be talking to an intern.

It's fun. hold them accountable, they do work for you after all.

 

[emefer]

Bernie Sander on brunch with Bernie concerning TPP


For years Bernie has been appearing on the Thomm Hartmann show taking live calls from listeners.

 

[2GunTommy]

No danger of that happening, unless it's mocking.

Some other good conservative writers are Tyler Cowen (econ guy), Ross Douthat (thoughtful on cultural stuff, not very good on anything else), and Reihan Salam. I like Andrew Sullivan and Josh Barro, but I guess it's debatable whether even of them really count as conservatives these days.



The second paragraph there is so blatantly misleading that I kind of lost interest in the rest. A lot of heat on this issue, but not a lot of light. I quoted the best analysis (that also had a lot of links to other good analysis pro and con) in another thread.

Blatantly misleading ? Why ? Its stating basically that NAFTA caused many skilled jobs to be out sourced to Mexico. Then the skilled workers who were now unemployed had to find employment in jobs that couldnt be out sourced like the service industry. With the influx of many new applicants to this industry came an eventual lowering of wages. No more high paying skilled jobs and more unemployment and service industry workers. Contributing to an income inequality in America. Agree or disagree there isnt anything blatantly misleading.

This is a pretty interesting report on the 20 yr effect of NAFTA.
http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA-at-20.pdf

Who they are.

"Public Citizen is a national, nonprofit consumer advocacy organization that serves as the people's voice in the
nation's capital. Since our founding in 1971, we have delved into an array of areas, but our work on each issue
shares an overarching goal: To ensure that all citizens are represented in the halls of power. For four decades, we
have proudly championed citizen interests before Congress, the executive branch agencies and the courts. We have
successfully challenged the abusive practices of the pharmaceutical, nuclear and automobile industries, and many
others. We are leading the charge against undemocratic trade agreements that advance the interests of megacorporations
at the expense of citizens worldwide. As the federal government wrestles with critical issues

 

[2GunTommy]

Bernie Sander on brunch with Bernie concerning TPP


For years Bernie has been appearing on the Thomm Hartmann show taking live calls from listeners.

Scary stuff. I really dont see how it can be stopped. Most still dont know what the TPP is. Lengthy read, but interesting.

http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA-at-20.pdf

 

[emefer]

Scary stuff. I really dont see how it can be stopped. Most still dont know what the TPP is. Lengthy read, but interesting.

http://www.citizen.org/documents/NAFTA-at-20.pdf

How could the people know about its existence when the company owned media haven't mentioned it until after the vote? All of a sudden it's on the msm, but the story is that the democrats voted against Obama, that's it.