Do you view Karate and TKD in the same way?

[Guestx]

This post was inspired by a recent conversation I had with a friend of mine, in which we were discussing the differences between karate and TKD. Eventually I mentioned that I don't think many people who have never trained in either art really understand the difference between the two, or that there even is a difference between the two.

I have my own views on the subject, but to get a totally unbiased response, I'm going to keep them to myself for the moment.

So the question to you guys is what do you understand the difference to be between Karate and TKD, and what are your thoughts on both styles' applicability to fighting, both in terms of combat sports and self-defense?


EDIT: Just to be clear, I think that most major karate styles are close enough that the conversation is still meaningful if we simply say "karate," but if I have to clarify then I'd say Shotokan or a style with Shotokan roots.

In regard to TKD, for the posters who are sophisticated enough in their knowledge of the subject to differentiate between ITF and WTF TKD, then they can feel free to do so.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

There are so many variants of karate and TKD that its hard to classify them all under two umbrellas.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

The differences largely vary. Given that there are millions of tkd practitioners and various organizations the art will often look very different from person to person. Some dont see much of a difference because it closely resembles the karate is sprang from while others can see clearly the difference because variations of it have changed dramatically.

 

[kuromusha]

I view them as completely different martial arts as they should be. Most people who don't know shit about martial arts beside bjj and muay thai think they're the same. I think both marital arts are practical in their own ways. Unfortunately its hard to find a legit dojo/dojang that emphasizes self defense. If you look hard enough you can find really great TKD and Karate places though its much harder to find a non McDojo TKD place.

In my opinion TKD is actually gaining more credibility as MMA grows. Edson Barbozas kick and Silva's front kick, for example, are kicks that are heavily used in TKD.

 

[Guestx]

There are so many variants of karate and TKD that its hard to classify them all under two umbrellas.

I considered mentioning that, but didn't want to confuse the issue and let the conversation devolve into chaos.

All the same, I suppose I should add an edit.

 

[Guestx]

The differences largely vary. Given that there are millions of tkd practitioners and various organizations the art will often look very different from person to person. Some dont see much of a difference because it closely resembles the karate is sprang from while others can see clearly the difference because variations of it have changed dramatically.

I feel that ITF TKD still has a distinctly karate-like vibe to it. WTF TKD, however, has traveled so far from the source that it has differentiated itself quite significantly from its Shotokan roots.

 

[kuromusha]

I feel that ITF TKD still has a distinctly karate-like vibe to it. WTF TKD, however, has traveled so far from the source that it has differentiated itself quite significantly from its Shotokan roots.

I'm not sure but I believe WTF is the Olympic style TKD we see today and ITF is based more on the traditional style of TKD. ITF has less padding but lighter sparring; WTF has more padding but full contact sparring. Also, from what I've seen, ITF allows punching to the head.

 

[Guestx]

I view them as completely different martial arts as they should be. Most people who don't know shit about martial arts beside bjj and muay thai think they're the same.

Indeed. This is primarily the crowd whose opinions I'm curious about . . . not to say that I don't appreciate your response and encourage you to continue being part of the conversation.

I think both marital arts are practical in their own ways. Unfortunately its hard to find a legit dojo/dojang that emphasizes self defense. If you look hard enough you can find really great TKD and Karate places though its much harder to find a non McDojo TKD place.

Yes, I think that's true. I only recently found a very good dojo after a long time searching. I do believe that great schools are like a diamond in the rough.

In my opinion TKD is actually gaining more credibility as MMA grows. Edson Barbozas kick and Silva's front kick, for example, are kicks that are heavily used in TKD.

I would say that both of those kicks are common in both TKD and karate, but your point is valid. I think that Machida did wonders to restore karate's reputation and to show people that there is "real" karate in the world that is a viable fighting art. Guys like John Makdessi is doing the same for both karate and TKD.

 

[not a tuf fan]

Hell no.

we could go on forever about flashy techniques, board breaking, self-defense, "the multiple testings, monthly fees and having to buy all uniforms and sparring gear prices from the dojang ARE TOO DAMN HIGH" and sport aspect forever but you can train any goofy techniques enough to make them effective.. even cart wheels.. shit ask the hairrow.

Tkd more sport
Karate more self defense.

 

[Guestx]

I'm not sure but I believe WTF is the Olympic style TKD we see today and ITF is based more on the traditional style of TKD. ITF has less padding but lighter sparring; WTF has more padding but full contact sparring. Also, from what I've seen, ITF allows punching to the head.

You are correct on all counts.

ITF competition sparring is kind of like kickboxing; WTF is basically a kicking contest.

To illustrate the difference, here are a couple of my favorite highlight vids:






and. . .

 

[Guestx]

Tkd more sport
Karate more self defense.

A somewhat simplistic reply, but I do agree to an extent.

However, I feel that ITF TKD is more self-defense oriented than WTF TKD as a rule. However, of course I need to add the usual disclaimer that it can vary significantly from school to school, instructor to instructor.

 

[kuromusha]

You are correct on all counts.

ITF competition sparring is kind of like kickboxing; WTF is basically a kicking contest.

To illustrate the difference, here are a couple of my favorite highlight vids:

This one's a gem. She really has that back kick down. Most MMA fighters seem to throw it as an offensive attack rather than a counter.

 

[Inquisitus]

Coming from Shotokan karate, I consider TKD to be not "karate" but TKD. But then I considered Goju and Okinawan karate as different to Shotokan as karate is to TKD. Add to that karate has so many variants, it's not funny.

What I'll say is if i know I'm facing a Shotokan guy that's just converted to kickboxing, i know to expect a certain style that is different than the TKD guys i've faced.

 

[Guestx]

This one's a gem. She really has that back kick down. Most MMA fighters seem to throw it as an offensive attack rather than a counter.

I know, right? She has caused me to re-evaluate the spinning back kick in my own game. I love that girl. I've watched that highlight literally probably 30 times.

BTW, here's another ITF girl. Less impressive in my opinion, but she's cute and the song is awesome, so fuck it:

 

[Guestx]

What I'll say is if i know I'm facing a Shotokan guy that's just converted to kickboxing, i know to expect a certain style that is different than the TKD guys i've faced.

Could you elaborate on this?

 

[not a tuf fan]

A somewhat simplistic reply, but I do agree to an extent.

However, I feel that ITF TKD is more self-defense oriented than WTF TKD as a rule. However, of course I need to add the usual disclaimer that it can vary significantly from school to school, instructor to instructor.

I was going off on a tangent in my first attempt at responding so I summed it up in those two sentences.

But yeah It all depends on who you are being taught by.

 

[Flexwave2003]

Given TKD has roots in Shotokan Karate, you have to at least acknowledge they are similar in my opinion. The style of Tae Kwon do I was introduced too was very Karate like, there was no discussion about point fighting, it was all essentially self defense based. My instructor wore a white belt, and when I asked him what belt he actually was he said he would leave that for me to decide.

His instructor came to class once, a short and very stout Korean man who apparently had a red belt and was trained at a prestigious school in Korea. Though that is as little information as I can recall from the time.

Today, I find myself wanting to train in Shotokan karate more so than go back to my original roots of Tae Kwon Do, but the closest school is a little out of my driving range to keep up with on a consistent basis.

 

[99Silva]

They are totally different from their katas to their styles. However you can see some similiarities such as gi's, belts', katas compared to tkd forms etc.,

 

[not a tuf fan]

Coming from Shotokan karate, I consider TKD to be not "karate" but TKD. But then I considered Goju and Okinawan karate as different to Shotokan as karate is to TKD. Add to that karate has so many variants, it's not funny.

What I'll say is if i know I'm facing a Shotokan guy that's just converted to kickboxing, i know to expect a certain style that is different than the TKD guys i've faced.

Goju ka here =]

Okinawan.. not the bastardized Japanese goju.. not how Miyagi wanted it.

 

[Jukai]

Stylistically, Shotokan and Taekwondo were very similar, but the differences in how they compete have driven them apart.

Someone already mentioned it, the differences between Goju and Shotokan and Kyokushin and traditional Shorin-Ryu variants are much bigger than ITF/WKF differences.