Does anyone else find the disregard for Pereira as a competent grappler irritating?

MAlexander22

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He's been working with Glover for years. He doesn't need to work on his striking as an already world class striker. He will likely have brought plenty of top grapplers in to work with, as well as being overseen by Glover. So many mma commentators are speaking as if we just disregard him as a grappler, especially a defensive one. They say things like "if he gets taken down, he'll get chocked out easy" etc.

I don't understand how people can disregard an elite guy like this. Just because we haven't seen his grappling doesn't mean he'll easily get taken down and choked out by Jones or Aspinall, or even Ankalaev as soon as they get their hands on him. I don't know, it's just something that has been bothering me with mma "experts" currently.
 
I would say his grappling is seen as untested rather than disregarded
In regards to people making the assumption Alex would get taken down easily by Jones or Aspinall, we have seen Alex get taken down by Izzy and 40 year old Jan, so its not outrageous to see Jones, who took DC down, being able to do the same to Alex, or even Aspinall who is much bigger and very competent at wrestling

I do hope we see him fight Ankalaev so we can see where his ground game and grappling is really at
 
No. People can only go on what they've seen.

The only arguments I've seen for him being a competent grappler is "He trains under Glover" which doesn't mean anything. Glover being great on the ground doesn't automatically mean everybody associated with him is as well.

What we HAVE seen on the ground from Poatan so far is... not good. He took Adesanya down, was immediately swept, and then controlled for a full round. Again, this wasn't by Jacare or a high level wrestler. It was Izzy, a pure striker in MMA. The same Izzy that looked like a fish out of water on the ground against Jan.

He did manage to survive on the ground against Jiri and Jan, but again, those two are primarily strikers, especially Jiri. Jan struggled more than he did against Izzy but that seemed to be that he didn't have a significant size and strength advantage against Poatan like he did against Adesanya.


Now, obviously people improve. But you can't just assume that he has become some wizard on the ground in the meantime, or even a competent grappler, not until we see the evidence with our own eyes. And no, him being awarded a black belt doesn't count, he was a brown belt when he was outgrappled by Izzy.

What we have seen from Jones and Aspinall on the ground is a whole other level. The last time Aspinall took a bjj black belt down, he did whatever he wanted and quickly finished him with a straight armlock. He also has a significant weight and strength advantage over Pereira, he can put all his weight on him and tire him out like nobody else in his career to this point could.
Jones is another guy that has submission wins against blackbelts and grapplers way more proven than Poatan.

It's just people describing what they see. You can tell everybody to eat crow if Alex comes out and looks like Gordon Ryan in his next few fights, I just don't see that happening, somehow.
 
Glover, and his training buddy, Chuck, focused their defensive wrestling/grappling on keeping the fight on the feet. Can't presume that isn't what Alex is being taught. When you're that caliber of striker, if you can keep the fight standing, generally, it's your fight to lose. Defend the choke, get back to your feet, hit a motherfucker, and send him to Shangri-La.
 
What we HAVE seen on the ground from Poatan so far is... not good. He took Adesanya down, was immediately swept, and then controlled for a full round. Again, this wasn't by Jacare or a high level wrestler. It was Izzy, a pure striker in MMA. The same Izzy that looked like a fish out of water on the ground against Jan.

This didn't happen at all lol.

He took Izzy down and then the round ended 5 seconds later. He wasn't "immediately swept" lol. he wasn't swept at all. And in the next round he had a kick caught, and then Izzy pulled him into double unders and dragged him down.

Don't know if you realize this, but Kickboxers and MT strikers do know how to catch kicks and get people down, especially off of kick catches.

He did manage to survive on the ground against Jiri and Jan, but again, those two are primarily strikers, especially Jiri. Jan struggled more than he did against Izzy but that seemed to be that he didn't have a significant size and strength advantage against Poatan like he did against Adesanya.

Jan being primarily a striker doesn't mean he isn't a good grappler. He has the same amount of Subs as he does KOs. And if Jan is not a good grappler and still outgrappled Izzy easily, then everyone else who tried and couldn't outgrapple Izzy must be shit as well.

The reality is Alex has shown pretty good defensive on the mat, which is clearly all he focuses on. He looked good defensively against Michalidis, he survived Izzy, who is not some bum grappler despite being a striker, and he survived Jan, who is a good grappler.

That's what we've seen so far, and it's seemed good enough.
 
Why would anyone disregard a Glover Teixeira BJJ blackbelt's ground skills?
 
I would say his grappling is seen as untested rather than disregarded
In regards to people making the assumption Alex would get taken down easily by Jones or Aspinall, we have seen Alex get taken down by Izzy and 40 year old Jan, so its not outrageous to see Jones, who took DC down, being able to do the same to Alex, or even Aspinall who is much bigger and very competent at wrestling

I do hope we see him fight Ankalaev so we can see where his ground game and grappling is really at

He wasn't taken down by Izzy, he failed a hip throw and Izzy fell on top.
 
This didn't happen at all lol.

He took Izzy down and then the round ended 5 seconds later. He wasn't "immediately swept" lol. he wasn't swept at all. And in the next round he had a kick caught, and then Izzy pulled him into double unders and dragged him down.

Don't know if you realize this, but Kickboxers and MT strikers do know how to catch kicks and get people down, especially off of kick catches.

You are half right. I forgot that the takedown was in round 2. I misremembered and thought all that happened in round 3, and yeah, Izzy caught a kick, got a body lock, spun him and muscled him to the ground. But that happened because Poatan tried to take him down with a hip toss and Izzy used his weight distribution to spin and end up on top. More of a scramble than a sweep but close enough.

Either way it should still be concerning to have a guy like Izzy take you down, immediately take the back and get his hooks in.

Jan being primarily a striker doesn't mean he isn't a good grappler. He has the same amount of Subs as he does KOs. And if Jan is not a good grappler and still outgrappled Izzy easily, then everyone else who tried and couldn't outgrapple Izzy must be shit as well.

Never said Jan isn't a decent grappler. I said he is primarily a striker, which is true. Aspinall is primarily a striker, but he's legit on the ground and a way bigger challenge in that aspect of MMA than Poatan has had to deal with so far.

Another factor in the fight with Poatan was the altitude, which makes grappling way more taxing unless you train at high altitude like Usman. So Jan was fighting a bigger stronger guy and was way more tired than when he outgrappled Izzy.

I'm assuming by "failed to outgrapple Izzy" you are talking about people trying and failing to take him down? We haven't actually seen much of him on the ground in his career besides the Jan fight. He threw up a triangle from his back against Gastelum which wasn't too close, and KG is meh on the ground. Vettori had some success but he usually struggles to take fights to the ground if he can't bully and outmuscle the guys.

The reality is Alex has shown pretty good defensive on the mat, which is clearly all he focuses on. He looked good defensively against Michalidis, he survived Izzy, who is not some bum grappler despite being a striker, and he survived Jan, who is a good grappler.

That's what we've seen so far, and it's seemed good enough.
Hes done enough to survive against some okay grapplers. Let's see how he does against Ankalaev before we start calling him a good grappler, and especially before we start claiming he can survive on the ground with the likes of Jon Jones or Tom Aspinall.
 
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Just saying he trains with Glover doesn't make him Glover. All it tells us he is getting competent grappling training. The onus is on him to show it in the cage. So far he's survived on the ground, but otherwise hasn't shown us an above average ground game.
 
It's haters only bad troll angle. His grappling is good he just doesn't need to use it. He took Izzy down and never came close to being finished on the ground by all his opponents who have tried
 
You are half right. I forgot that the takedown was in round 2. I misremembered and thought all that happened in round 3, and yeah, Izzy caught a kick, got a body lock, spun him and muscled him to the ground. But that happened because Poatan tried to take him down with a hip toss and Izzy used his weight distribution to spin and end up on top. More of a scramble than a sweep but close enough.

Either way it should still be concerning to have a guy like Izzy take you down, immediately take the back and get his hooks in.



Never said Jan isn't a decent grappler. I said he is primarily a striker, which is true. Aspinall is primarily a striker, but he's legit on the ground and a way bigger challenge in that aspect of MMA than Poatan has had to deal with so far.

Another factor in the fight with Poatan was the altitude, which makes grappling way more taxing unless you train at high altitude like Usman. So Jan was fighting a bigger stronger guy and was way more tired than when he outgrappled Izzy.

I'm assuming by "failed to outgrapple Izzy" you are talking about people trying and failing to take him down? We haven't actually seen much of him on the ground in his career besides the Jan fight. He threw up a triangle from his back against Gastelum which wasn't too close, and KG is meh on the ground. Vettori had some success but he usually struggles to take fights to the ground if he can't bully and outmuscle the guys.


Hes done enough to survive against some okay grapplers. Let's see how he does against Ankalaev before we start calling him a good grappler, and especially before we start claiming he can survive on the ground with the likes of Jon Jones or Tom Aspinall.

Alex's attempted hip throw was more him panicking when Izzy brought him into the double unders. It was credited as a takedown for Izzy.

Why is Aspinall a bigger grappling threat than Jan? Jan has twice as many subs. Aspinall has only subbed a can back in the day, AA who isn't that great a grappler and just gave up his neck, and Volkov who is competent. Jan on the other hand did sub Nikita who has as many or maybe more than anyone in the division.

Aspinall is the one we need to see more of in regards to grappling. He hasn't fought any good grapplers. Blaydes fight didn't really count, and Sergey was a scared bum and isn't that great anyway.

And yeh, I don't think anyone is saying Alex can survive on the ground with Jones. At least I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying he's some wiz grappler either. Just that his defensive grappling is decent, which it has been so far, or Jan, Michalidis, and Izzy would have finished him.

The Ank fight should be good, if it ever happens.
 
Alex's attempted hip throw was more him panicking when Izzy brought him into the double unders. It was credited as a takedown for Izzy.
Sure. They both went for a takedown at the same time and Izzy was in a better position and ended up getting it.

Why is Aspinall a bigger grappling threat than Jan? Jan has twice as many subs. Aspinall has only subbed a can back in the day, AA who isn't that great a grappler and just gave up his neck, and Volkov who is competent. Jan on the other hand did sub Nikita who has as many or maybe more than anyone in the division.
What we have seen from Aspinall is an extremely high level, even though there's a smaller sample size than Jan.

Arlovski is better than people give him credit for. At the time he fought Aspinall he was still winning most of his fights. the Aspinall loss was his only loss in a 6 fight run. He's an international master of sport in Sambo and at the time Aspinall beat him he'd only ever been subbed once, and that was against Josh Barnett after almost 3 full gruelling rounds. Aspinall subbed him within seconds of getting him grounded.

Volkov himself is a bjj black belt, and while he picked up a couple of sub losses very early in his career, he since made a bit of a career of beating grapplers. He usually tends to end up in top position throwing ground and pound. He subbed Ivanov, a world Sambo champ, back when he actually used it to take people down and sub them. Before he became a sloppy brawler in the UFC. He also did well on the ground against Werdum and defended his sub attempts well. Same with Romanov, able to defend his grappling offense and beat him up in the process.

Aspinall went through him like a hot knife through butter. Took him down with ease, passed to half guard with ease, busted him up with elbows, and subbed him.

Jan has more subs but we've also seen him lose a lot more fights in the grappling realm. Gustaffson was able to outwrestle him pretty effectively. Glover dominated him on the ground, Corey Anderson really outclassed him on the ground in their first fight. I wouldn't make too much of the Krylov fight. He subs strikers and most of his losses are by submission. 6 of them in fact. He's good by today's LHW grappling standards but he isn't that great all things considered. Subbing him is less impressive than subbing Arlovski at the time or Volkov.

Aspinall is the one we need to see more of in regards to grappling. He hasn't fought any good grapplers. Blaydes fight didn't really count, and Sergey was a scared bum and isn't that great anyway.
Somewhat disagree due to what I said above. Aspinall is much more proven on the ground at this point than Poatan is. Agreed Spivak isn't that good though.

And yeh, I don't think anyone is saying Alex can survive on the ground with Jones. At least I'm not saying that.

I'm not saying he's some wiz grappler either. Just that his defensive grappling is decent, which it has been so far, or Jan, Michalidis, and Izzy would have finished him.

The Ank fight should be good, if it ever happens.
The Ank fight will be the real test to see where Alex's grappling is at, agreed. Not being finished by Izzy and Michalidis doesn't really mean much. Surviving gassed Jan is a bit more impressive but again, meh.
 
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Alex does benefit a lot having someone like Glover on top of him and learning how to survive that type of pressure. The issue is that Glover is old now and it is safe to say his wrestling isn't as sharp anymore. Surviving on the ground doesn't really mean you are a black belt though.

You can see some fighters that come out of Glover's gym. They get outwrestled and outworked on the ground. They somewhat have Glover's style and weakness. They are ok on the ground as long as they are on top but they don't fight well off their back. They are decent strikers but can be neutralized by better wrestlers.
 
Alex does benefit a lot having someone like Glover on top of him and learning how to survive that type of pressure. The issue is that Glover is old now and it is safe to say his wrestling isn't as sharp anymore. Surviving on the ground doesn't really mean you are a black belt though.

You can see some fighters that come out of Glover's gym. They get outwrestled and outworked on the ground. They somewhat have Glover's style and weakness. They are ok on the ground as long as they are on top but they don't fight well off their back. They are decent strikers but can be neutralized by better wrestlers.
They should just hire 3 HW college wrestlers in the tri-state area and just ragdoll Alex when he's not in training camp.
 
They should just hire 3 HW college wrestlers in the tri-state area and just ragdoll Alex when he's not in training camp.
I think Glover's gym is in a small town next to a bigger city. Lol Alex should go to ATT like Glover.

Seriously though world champion shouldn't do the general classes. You see how everyone is somewhat smaller than him and he is gooning them from top position.
 
Just to throw this bit here as well: people say Jiri is a striker, Jan is a striker. Well, Ankalaev is also a striker. I don’t remember him ever winning by sub. Not saying he is bad at it, but if Alex defeats him, I fully expect the narrative to change into “no good grapplers in the division”.
 
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