Opinion Does Christianity really teach that some people will spend eternity in hell?

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ripskater said:
Not without Jesus Christ.

If you want to be reconciled to God, do not reject Jesus Christ.
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what if you have never been exposed to jesus christ, like those indian people who live on that island that have never made contact with civilization?
 
Phr3121 said:
But God does not program humans does he? Yes, you can have it both ways. God gives you free will, the choice is yours to make, and God already knows what choice you will make.
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There is no free will if the end result is known.
 
MarcoW said:
what if you have never been exposed to jesus christ, like those indian people who live on that island that have never made contact with civilization?
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If you've never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then I don't know, and your salvation would be between you and God.
 
helltoupee said:
There is nothing you wrote above that I would disagree with.

The way I see it, and this is just my opinion, all conventional religions, Christianity included, are based on the assumption that the universe is a perfect, harmonious whole, which is what people really mean by "God", "gods", or more abstract controlling principles such as the Tao.

Isolated consciousnesses, characteristic of humans, exercise perspective apart from this whole.

Christ is a personified representation of the presumed wish of the universe to include all things in itself: a messenger that we should return to, merge, become one, indistinguishable with God, or the whole. Only thus can the strain and the pain of our sense of distinction be ended.

To accomplish this, one would need to return to a pre-fall state of nonconsciousness and imperception: most simply, pure innocence - there is a quote somewhere in the NT where Jesus says that only when people return to the state of a child, shall they enter heaven.

Unfortunately for all those yearning for the "gift" of innocence ("Grace"), it is impossible to intentionally "undo" one's uniqueness. So conventional religions have sought to punish, destroy, sublimate, or numb it out of conscious awareness (and this was heavily utilized/embellished as a political tool). Failing that, some have ritualistically flung themselves on the mercy of the God/universe by committing themselves at least to its principle, ie "accepting Christ" (or similar).
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You have said much that rings deeply in my heart man.

I started my spiritual path deeply interested in eastern forms of spirituality. It was ten years into that quest that I found the real Jesus (I knew the new age one) and christian theology.

One thing I would say that differs from what you so beautifully stated is that Christian and Jewish mysticism do not seek to become one with the whole to the degree that the individual self is lost. This is a sticking point with me and one of the reasons I have come to love Christian mysticism so deeply. Being human is NOT a mistake or a fall from this perspective. We and creation are created by God and are good. People are disordered by sin, but good to the core.

The Christian mystic seeks to become fully human, from this perspective and does not seek to lose their individuality but rather incorporate it into the greater whole. We seek a union with God and all of creation through Love-- cosmic burning love of intense energy. In this way we can remain the creature that God created but fulfill our vocation of uniting within our consciousness the whole of creation-- the heavenly, angelic and energetic spheres above and the whole of the physical universe and its creatures below all united in Love and in our union with God.
This mysticism is non dual but the union is a union of individuals.
 
ripskater said:
If you've never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then I don't know, and your salvation would be between you and God.
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Or babies who died before they could speak language?
Or people who lived before Jesus' time?
Or cavemen?
 
hillelslovak87 said:
I am still waiting for you to show what a christian value is, how it's unique to your faith, and how this nation was founded upon explicitly christian values. Shitty video aside, you have provided nothing for your assertion.

I am also waiting for any of you religious folks to explain free will in a manner that coheres, given your God's abilities. Again, you have provided nothing but explanations that are not convincing even at a cursory glance.
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You are still waiting? What, 15 minutes? Those posts were almost back to back lol.
 
ripskater said:
If you've never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then I don't know, and your salvation would be between you and God.
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The people in India have religious beliefs that are older than yours. It's clear you never thought about things from their perspective.
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helltoupee said:
Research? WTF are you talking about? There's no need to be condescending.
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That was a compliment knucklehead.

helltoupee said:
...how to make you understand that when you create something with certain design parameters, and have foreknowledge of what the results of this design will choose/do, then you are defining it's choices.
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No, God does not define the choices you make. He may know the answer, but again it is your choice to make. You choose between an apple or an orange (free will). God knows which one you are going to pick but the choice of the pick is yours not God's. I don't understand why you and others have a problem understanding this concept.

helltoupee said:
When God created Adolph Hitler, he knew when he created him that millions of innocents would be slaughtered - essentially that Adolph would commit evil. Same with Satan. God is all powerful and has not only allowed Adolph and Satan to torment millions, but created these two fine specimens himself, knowing full well what would happen.
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Woo, hold off on Satan for a moment. That is a whole other argument. Yes, God knew about Hitler and what he would do. Hitler had free will and is one of the best examples of the evil that man are capable of doing in this world. Well, it goes back to what I stated earlier. If God is going to intervene, man has no free will. Evil is a consequence of free will.

Now to Satan, that little shit. The fallen angel 'Lucifer' who got jealous of God's power. Why didn't God just kill him? I believe God allowed 'Lucifer' to exist in the form of evil to test man's faith in God. You don't get a free ticket to heaven, you have to earn it. Man has the choice (free will) between doing good and doing evil, the consequence of those choices will decide your life after death. Punishment could also come in this life.

Hitler and Lucifer are evil incarnate. Man must destroy this evil under the eyes of God. The evil is all around us every day of our lives. It is man's choice to partake in it or destroy it. Well, at least that is how I view it.

helltoupee said:
As to Einstein, his musings on a creator don't necessarily point to your creator. He was very specific in his opinion on the Bible and it's representation of God.
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Well, like I and others mentioned before, the Bible was written by man. Jesus could have written it but he didn't. What does that tell you? I don't put too much faith on the Bible as the 'word' of God. I'm more of a 'deeds are better than words' kind of guy. But Einstein did believe in a god. I think his parable is really well put together.
 
mrbaapt said:
Nah.
Marduk-logo.jpg
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Rev 19

The Heavenly Warrior Defeats the Beast
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war. 12 His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”a]">[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16 On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
 
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ripskater said:
bible nonsense
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"Marduk was also the main opponent to the evil goddess Tiamat. The goddess was a chaos monster and the primordial goddess of the ocean. Tiamat was the mother of the first generation of gods and eventually made war against them, with the help of many of the older gods, known collectively as the Anunnaki. The remaining gods elected Marduk as their leader and gave him dominion over them, for he was the strongest of them all. Marduk challenged Tiamat to a duel, catching her in a net and using his powers over storms to defeat her.

After defeating Tiamat, Marduk turned his attention to Kingu, Tiamat's son and lover, who was in charge of her army. He was given his immense power through the Three Tablets of Destiny he wore as his breastplate. Marduk wrestled them from Kingu and defeated him, taking the place of supreme being. From Tiamat's remains, he created the sky and the Earth.
"

come with it!
piusVtP.jpg
 
franklinstower said:
Tell me.
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Well, I was waiting for you to tell me...
Here is my version. Jesus did not have the time to sit down and write a book, he had a mission to accomplish in a short time which did not entail writing a book. Well, I guess if he can turn water into wine he could turn a few blank pages into a bible. Also, most people of that period, and the ones he preached to, could not read. Like me, he was more of a 'doer', put your money where your mouth is kind of guy. People enjoyed listening to him and he had a better influence that way. Plus you have to factor in the miracles that he did. He wanted the 'word' to be passed down through his disciples through the years. Later came the letters and than the Bible.
 
mrbaapt said:
"Marduk was also the main opponent to the evil goddess Tiamat. The goddess was a chaos monster and the primordial goddess of the ocean. Tiamat was the mother of the first generation of gods and eventually made war against them, with the help of many of the older gods, known collectively as the Anunnaki. The remaining gods elected Marduk as their leader and gave him dominion over them, for he was the strongest of them all. Marduk challenged Tiamat to a duel, catching her in a net and using his powers over storms to defeat her.

After defeating Tiamat, Marduk turned his attention to Kingu, Tiamat's son and lover, who was in charge of her army. He was given his immense power through the Three Tablets of Destiny he wore as his breastplate. Marduk wrestled them from Kingu and defeated him, taking the place of supreme being. From Tiamat's remains, he created the sky and the Earth.
"

come with it!
piusVtP.jpg
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Even TRT Marduk stands no chance against Jesus Christ

Rev 20

2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him......

10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
 
Phr3121 said:
Well, I was waiting for you to tell me...
Here is my version. Jesus did not have the time to sit down and write a book, he had a mission to accomplish in a short time which did not entail writing a book. Well, I guess if he can turn water into wine he could turn a few blank pages into a bible. Also, most people of that period, and the ones he preached to, could not read. Like me, he was more of a 'doer', put your money where your mouth is kind of guy. People enjoyed listening to him and he had a better influence that way. Plus you have to factor in the miracles that he did. He wanted the 'word' to be passed down through his disciples through the years. Later came the letters and than the Bible.
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I like that take man. I had never really though about the why of it because I try not to project anything onto Jesus from my own thinking. I hold him in such a reverence and dont think that I can understand him really. Not fully at least.

Just sitting here though I feel like he was busy turning history towards God, accomplishing salvation and knew that the message would come through the disciples basically intact. People lower on the totem pole do the writing....
 
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