Social Exhibit A of Healthcare cost problem in USA

[jrams]

In the US I was paying ~$400 a month for coverage that didn't kick in until I spent $7000 out of pocket and it didn't cover dental. Even if your reforms literally improve that system 200% and make it twice as good, it still sucks.

I'm paying $50 a month and my employer pays $50 a month. I get near 0 deductible full coverage healthcare and dental. Why wouldn't you want that?

That's how healthcare is in the rest of the first world. Can your ideas offer that? If not, why not support what does offer that?

The (first world) country I'm now actually spends less tax dollars on healthcare per person than America does. I didn't say less dollars on healthcare. I said less tax dollars on healthcare. So you'd lower your taxes with this system. The GDP spent on healthcare is also the global average: ~8%. The US spends 20%. So, in addition to lower taxes, every American would get a 12% salary raise under this system.

The fact it is tied to employment at all bugs me. My company just got bought out by a goliath and the health insurance they provide sucks. It's my only tenable option though as purchasing my old plan, which I don't even love, would be ~10x more expensive.

I'm on the M4A train and any Democrat that isn't going for it doesn't get my vote.

 

[superpunch]

The fact it is tied to employment at all bugs me. My company just got bought out by a goliath and the health insurance they provide sucks. It's my only tenable option though as purchasing my old plan, which I don't even love, would be ~10x more expensive.

I'm on the M4A train and any Democrat that isn't going for it doesn't get my vote.

It's already ~10x more expensive. That's what your employer is paying that would otherwise be added to your paycheck.

At least we have Obamacare now. Can you imagine being too sick to work before the pre-existing conditions clause??

IMO M4A is a terrible idea. Medicare fucking sucks. We have medicare for some right now and we already spend more tax dollars on healthcare per person than any country in the world, that all have universal health coverage, except Norway. If medicare for some is that expensive, what's medicare for all going to cost? We're going to have 1 chance to get healthcare right. Blowing that chance on medicare for all would be monumentally stupid.

Rule of thumb for me: If it's American and it's healthcare, it sucks and it's a bad idea. The current system is a bad idea. Medicare for all is a bad idea. Let's just do what other countries do.

 

[HeffDoesWant]

We subsidize all the research and development of health care. You leach off of us. You also leach off of our defense. Nobody can fuck with you because of our military.


Must be nice

Not to mention American tax payers willing to pay more tax so my investments in American companies are more profitable.

Most powerful military in the world yet it's citizens are the world's bitch.

 

[HomeCheese]

So you agree it's the government's fault medical prices are so high

No. Most hospitals are non profit so the cost is what it is. The system could be made cheaper though. For example, each insurance company/healthplan has an administrative overhead, anywhere from 2-15%. Meaning for every $100 they pay out in claims $2-$15 goes to overhead. By moving towards single payor you do away with this additional overhead and take advantage of economies of scale. Thus, saving money.

I have lots more ideas on this.

 

[HockeyBjj]

No. Most hospitals are non profit so the cost is what it is.

Gross misleading statement. The NFL itself is a non profit. I don't think you'd say the costs to fans are what they are?

 

[HomeCheese]

Gross misleading statement. The NFL itself is a non profit. I don't think you'd say the costs to fans are what they are?

Okay then, how does a hospital lower fees and not go bankrupt? Where is the fat in a hospital budget?

 

[HockeyBjj]

Okay then, how does a hospital lower fees and not go bankrupt? Where is the fat in a hospital budget?

For one example, they use a significant amount of money for what seem like pet projects. The Mayo Clinic is a non profit, and they're opening a "Mega Hospital" in the UAE. Makes one wonder where all that money came from to build a for profit 3.2 million square foot hospital overseas doesn't it?

http://m.startribune.com/mayo-clini...a-hospital-in-united-arab-emirates/565357962/

Also (I use Mayo as example because I've been there multiple times) the main Rochester campus itself for mayo has just so, so much money spent on art. Not saying there shouldn't be some so as to present a welcoming environment, but it's just completely over the top.

Just one examples is this, over 6,000 pounds of blown glass from Chihuly who is one of the most prominent glass artists in the world. IE expensive. Just below this is like 20+ foot bronze statue.

 

[HomeCheese]

For one example, they use a significant amount of money for what seem like pet projects. The Mayo Clinic is a non profit, and they're opening a "Mega Hospital" in the UAE. Makes one wonder where all that money came from to build a for profit 3.2 million square foot hospital overseas doesn't it?

http://m.startribune.com/mayo-clini...a-hospital-in-united-arab-emirates/565357962/

Also (I use Mayo as example because I've been there multiple times) the main Rochester campus itself for mayo has just so, so much money spent on art. Not saying there shouldn't be some so as to present a welcoming environment, but it's just completely over the top.

Just one examples is this, over 6,000 pounds of blown glass from Chihuly who is one of the most prominent glass artists in the world. IE expensive. Just below this is like 20+ foot bronze statue.

So you think Mayo Clinic is sticking it to the American consumer so they can build a hospital in the middle East? Let me assure you that this is not the case. Since I actually know people that have moved to the ME to work in administration at hospitals like this I can assure you the money comes from the royal families. They pay dearly for an affiliation like the Mayo Clinic too. So this actually brings money into the US system, not take it away. Further, 99% of hospitals do not have a branch in the middle east so I don't see how this is a legit cost cutting idea.

As for the fancy decorations that adorn many hospitals, generally this are given via charitable donation. Often from a rich person or the artist themselves. It's a tax right off. Anyway, cutting decorating budgets won't make a meaningful impact on lowering healthcare costs. That's just not a real idea for improving pricing.

 

[AndroidRage]

It's already ~10x more expensive. That's what your employer is paying that would otherwise be added to your paycheck.

At least we have Obamacare now. Can you imagine being too sick to work before the pre-existing conditions clause??

IMO M4A is a terrible idea. Medicare fucking sucks. We have medicare for some right now and we already spend more tax dollars on healthcare per person than any country in the world, that all have universal health coverage, except Norway. If medicare for some is that expensive, what's medicare for all going to cost? We're going to have 1 chance to get healthcare right. Blowing that chance on medicare for all would be monumentally stupid.

Rule of thumb for me: If it's American and it's healthcare, it sucks and it's a bad idea. The current system is a bad idea. Medicare for all is a bad idea. Let's just do what other countries do.

They do medicare for all.......... wtf are you saying?

 

[ScottE]

They do medicare for all.......... wtf are you saying?

I'm not trusting anything from that poster fiscally related given their assertion that we need a law requiring pensions and 401k to invest in t-bills, because they think that will fix pensions being under funded.

 

[7437]

Okay then, how does a hospital lower fees and not go bankrupt? Where is the fat in a hospital budget?

Everywhere?

We can see from other countries that our hospitals grossly overcharge. There isnt some magic difference that makes everything cost 20 times as much.

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Are you being ironic/trying out stand up material?

Lmao I self medicate with way cooler drugs than essential oils bro.

 

[HomeCheese]

Everywhere?

We can see from other countries that our hospitals grossly overcharge. There isnt some magic difference that makes everything cost 20 times as much.

I am assuming you are referring to overall healthcare spend per other countries rather than specifically hospital cost. As for the hospitals charges specifically, the lions share of hospitals in the US are non profit and any money earned over operating expenses go back into the facility or health system. I have worked for both a larger facility that was part of a big network and I have worked for a small stand alone hospital.

Trust me, there is not a lot of fat in a hospital budget. It is very expensive to deliver quality care. Most hospitals have endless needs for upgrading their equipment and multiple capital needs like upgrading air circulation systems or whatever. Hospitals are not getting fat in the US health system.

Now, when you see a doctor owned surgery center or colonoscopy suite, some of those guys are killing it. And they are delivering cheaper care.

I don't think hospitals are the culprit in the high cost of HC in the US. It's the way the system is designed or not designed I guess is more accurate.

 

[7437]

I am assuming you are referring to overall healthcare spend per other countries rather than specifically hospital cost. As for the hospitals charges specifically, the lions share of hospitals in the US are non profit and any money earned over operating expenses go back into the facility or health system. I have worked for both a larger facility that was part of a big network and I have worked for a small stand alone hospital.

Trust me, there is not a lot of fat in a hospital budget. It is very expensive to deliver quality care. Most hospitals have endless needs for upgrading their equipment and multiple capital needs like upgrading air circulation systems or whatever. Hospitals are not getting fat in the US health system.

Now, when you see a doctor owned surgery center or colonoscopy suite, some of those guys are killing it. And they are delivering cheaper care.

I don't think hospitals are the culprit in the high cost of HC in the US. It's the way the system is designed or not designed I guess is more accurate.

If course they are gonna spend all the money they get. That's no reason for them not to get as much money as possible.

A friend of mine went to the hospital in Vietnam when I was there recently. She had an ear infection. Paid the equivalent of 30 bucks for an examination and medicene. Took about 15 minutes. No insurance.

Care to guess what that would cost in the USA? 6 grand? More?

 

[HunterAcosta]

My buddy says....Therefore it's true.

Yeah every poor, inner city person is gaming the system to get a free ride across town. Dateline should expose this. They’ll just have to stop all 911 calls in the inner cities. Fuck em right? Crazy how some peeps think. Some on here think everyone in the hood are lower than animals but just won’t fucking Admit it.

 

[HomeCheese]

If course they are gonna spend all the money they get. That's no reason for them not to get as much money as possible.

A friend of mine went to the hospital in Vietnam when I was there recently. She had an ear infection. Paid the equivalent of 30 bucks for an examination and medicene. Took about 15 minutes. No insurance.

Care to guess what that would cost in the USA? 6 grand? More?

Ideally your friend would have gone to her primary care physician for an exam and picked up meds from pharmacy on the way home if her doctor does not dispense. With decent insurance this would have cost nothing or a small co pay.

 

[7437]

Ideally your friend would have gone to her primary care physician for an exam and picked up meds from pharmacy on the way home if her doctor does not dispense. With decent insurance this would have cost nothing or a small co pay.

Well she doesnt have insurance and went to the hospital, where they quickly and correctly diagnosed her.

So, what would that cost here? 30 bucks?

 

[HomeCheese]

Well she doesnt have insurance and went to the hospital, where they quickly and correctly diagnosed her.

So, what would that cost here? 30 bucks?

Going to the hospital is the least efficient form of care. Why go to a hospital for an ear infection? At worst without insurance she could have gone to an urgent care center. You cam get an appointment there for like $100 if you pay cash and those kinda of antibiotics are pretty cheap too, like $30 I'm just guessing though. So that could have been accomplished in the current and very clunky/inefficient US system for less than $150.

One of the problems with the current system is that too many people go to the ER for care they should be receiving on the primary care setting. Also folks don't have or visit a primary care provider enough and problems go unchecked for years until it's too late.

 

[SmilinDesperado]

Going to the hospital is the least efficient form of care. Why go to a hospital for an ear infection? At worst without insurance she could have gone to an urgent care center. You cam get an appointment there for like $100 if you pay cash and those kinda of antibiotics are pretty cheap too, like $30 I'm just guessing though. So that could have been accomplished in the current and very clunky/inefficient US system for less than $150.

One of the problems with the current system is that too many people go to the ER for care they should be receiving on the primary care setting. Also folks don't have or visit a primary care provider enough and problems go unchecked for years until it's too late.

Why do you think that is?

 

[7437]

Going to the hospital is the least efficient form of care. Why go to a hospital for an ear infection? At worst without insurance she could have gone to an urgent care center. You cam get an appointment there for like $100 if you pay cash and those kinda of antibiotics are pretty cheap too, like $30 I'm just guessing though. So that could have been accomplished in the current and very clunky/inefficient US system for less than $150.

One of the problems with the current system is that too many people go to the ER for care they should be receiving on the primary care setting. Also folks don't have or visit a primary care provider enough and problems go unchecked for years until it's too late.

Urgent care centers dont exist there.

You are deflecting. Why is hospital care so much cheaper there? She got the exact same level of treatment. Probably better cause it was faster.