Eye gouging against a trained grappler is easier said than done. (Share your experiences)

teamventure09

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Hey sherbros, I decided to make this thread about eye gouging a grappler to debunk some of the myth about eye gouging easily nullifying a grappler. Please discuss and share any of your experiences or videos with eye gouge attempts.

I'll go first:
A guy tried eye gouging me while I had side control on him while bouncing at a bar. I just trapped one of his arms and caught him in a head and arm choke and choked him out.
 
I used to train with this douchebag who trained TKD and was taught all that stuff for "self defense"...the thing is that the guy when we were Grappling did not understand that it was just training so for example, when I had him on a Leg Lock he tried to kick me with the other leg. Well this one time, I had his back, with a fully locked RNC but without putting pressure and this idiot tried to gouge my eyes and I nearly choked him out. It was the last time he trained with us.
 
I used to train with this douchebag who trained TKD and was taught all that stuff for "self defense"...the thing is that the guy when we were Grappling did not understand that it was just training so for example, when I had him on a Leg Lock he tried to kick me with the other leg. Well this one time, I had his back, with a fully locked RNC but without putting pressure and this idiot tried to gouge my eyes and I nearly choked him out. It was the last time he trained with us.
that's the first lessons you are taught in TKD. standup grappling techniques, down the opponent and end the fight quick is the philosophy. Many TKD places include ground game grappling nowadays at least the good dojos.
 
I used to train with this douchebag who trained TKD and was taught all that stuff for "self defense"...the thing is that the guy when we were Grappling did not understand that it was just training so for example, when I had him on a Leg Lock he tried to kick me with the other leg. Well this one time, I had his back, with a fully locked RNC but without putting pressure and this idiot tried to gouge my eyes and I nearly choked him out. It was the last time he trained with us.
Good for you. Not choking him out in that instance even though it's practice would help him justify his delusions.
 
Hey sherbros, I decided to make this thread about eye gouging a grappler to debunk some of the myth about eye gouging easily nullifying a grappler. Please discuss and share any of your experiences or videos with eye gouge attempts.

I'll go first:
A guy tried eye gouging me while I had side control on him while bouncing at a bar. I just trapped one of his arms and caught him in a head and arm choke and choked him out.
Regarding this subject, I would say it both is and it isn't.
Untrained people are generally clueless and like the example you gave, once you have a dominant position their attempts to neutralize with gouging will likely fail as you can outposition them to apply a finishing hold. An arm triangle choke is one of the best holds standing or on the ground to finish in this way as the position protects you against most of what they do to try to nullify it.


That said, there are some delusions the other way also to think that eye gouging can't be used to potentially nullify a grappler if the person is really committed to the gouge and especially if they are trained.
The biggest danger is when initiating a clinch, unless you just shoot for a double or single leg you have essentially given them an opening to gouge you by seeking or taking a grip in a standing position at close range. It may only be very transitional but nonetheless the opening is there. When we see 'accidental' eye gouges in the UFC this is usually where it occurs from.
This potentially can occur during some scrambles on the ground as well but again there many other strikes and holds that could be more effective from here.

The main data on this however comes from the history of Rough n Tumble fighting in the United States in the 18th and 19th centuries.
People may not like to hear it especially martial artists but when eye gouging was permitted and people trained for this form of combat, it indeed became the most effective and efficient way of winning the fight.

This article (which my sig comes from) details the history in depth of what was truly 'no rules whatsoever' unarmed combat, but became known as gouging matches because that emerged as the fastest and most efficient method for emerging victorious.


"We found the combatants' fast clinched by the hair, and their thumbs endeavoring to force a passage into each other's eyes; while several of the bystanders were betting upon the first eye to be turned out of its socket. For some time the combatants avoided the thumb stroke with dexterity. At length they fell to the ground, and in an instant the uppermost sprung up with his antagonist's eye in his hand!!! The savage crowd applauded, while, sick with horror, we galloped away from the infernal scene."


That said, the vast majority of people are not so ferocious or trained or prepared to take it to that level which means that in most scenarios an eye gouge attempt by an untrained person from a bad position will likely fail against a trained martial artist.
 
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I once had a fight with this smaller Wrestler who took my lanky ass down easily. While He had mount and wanted to start GNP i drove my both thumbs into both eyes up and as far and as hard into his head as i could manage. He recoiled and ran. So in my case, it worked.

I guess its a matter of who uses a technique, how its used, in what Situation and the experience of the opponent.

i do have a fair amount of experience fighting dirty /playing dirty in american football/ bouncer stuff. I assume my opponent in this situation had not had much experience with scumbags like me before.
 
But yeah, the average Bar douchebag that has never trained or fought will say "just eyegouge if he takes you down" is bullshitting of course. In bjj i tried to eye gouge my buddy as a test, He saw it coming and simply avoided.
 
Hey sherbros, I decided to make this thread about eye gouging a grappler to debunk some of the myth about eye gouging easily nullifying a grappler. Please discuss and share any of your experiences or videos with eye gouge attempts.

I'll go first:
A guy tried eye gouging me while I had side control on him while bouncing at a bar. I just trapped one of his arms and caught him in a head and arm choke and choked him out.

I don't get the logic with this from people. The trained grappler can also eye gouge and groin strike, but does it from a position of control. Both you and the grappler aren't trained in the applications of eye gouges and groin strikes, because you can't practice eye gouges and groin shots in sparring safely. Both have the same theoretical knowledge, except the grappler also has grappling.

I tried to explain this to a certain martial arts style instructor/practitioner once and they couldn't wrap their head around the fact that everyone can eye gouge.
 
Regarding this subject, I would say it both is and it isn't.
Untrained people are generally clueless and like the example you gave, once you have a dominant position their attempts to neutralize with gouging will likely fail as you can outposition them to apply a finishing hold. An arm triangle choke is one of the best holds standing or on the ground to finish in this way as the position protects you against most of what they do to try to nullify it.


That said, there are some delusions the other way also to think that eye gouging can't be used to potentially nullify a grappler if the person is really committed to the gouge and especially if they are trained.
The biggest danger is when initiating a clinch, unless you just shoot for a double or single leg you have essentially given them an opening to gouge you by seeking or taking a grip in a standing position at close range. It may only be very transitional but nonetheless the opening is there. When we see 'accidental' eye gouges in the UFC this is usually where it occurs from.
This potentially can occur during some scrambles on the ground as well but again there many other strikes and holds that could be more effective from here.

The main data on this however comes from the history of Rough n Tumble fighting in the United States in the 18th and 19th centuries.
People may not like to hear it especially martial artists but when eye gouging was permitted and people trained for this form of combat, it indeed became the most effective and efficient way of winning the fight.

This article (which my sig comes from) details the history in depth of what was truly 'no rules whatsoever' unarmed combat, but became known as gouging matches because that emerged as the fastest and most efficient method for emerging victorious.


"We found the combatants' fast clinched by the hair, and their thumbs endeavoring to force a passage into each other's eyes; while several of the bystanders were betting upon the first eye to be turned out of its socket. For some time the combatants avoided the thumb stroke with dexterity. At length they fell to the ground, and in an instant the uppermost sprung up with his antagonist's eye in his hand!!! The savage crowd applauded, while, sick with horror, we galloped away from the infernal scene."


That said, the vast majority of people are not so ferocious or trained or prepared to take it to that level which means that in most scenarios an eye gouge attempt by an untrained person from a bad position will likely fail against a trained martial artist.

Well balanced post. I remember Gary Goodrich winning a cage fight with an eye gouge, but that came after he defended himself with grappling for several minutes on the ground.
 
I once had a fight with this smaller Wrestler who took my lanky ass down easily. While He had mount and wanted to start GNP i drove my both thumbs into both eyes up and as far and as hard into his head as i could manage. He recoiled and ran. So in my case, it worked.

I guess its a matter of who uses a technique, how its used, in what Situation and the experience of the opponent.

i do have a fair amount of experience fighting dirty /playing dirty in american football/ bouncer stuff. I assume my opponent in this situation had not had much experience with scumbags like me before.

I see what you mean, it really depends.
The guy who tried to eye gouge me was a stocky guy with not very long arms. Maybe if he had a reach advantage he may have got me.
 
I don't get the logic with this from people. The trained grappler can also eye gouge and groin strike, but does it from a position of control. Both you and the grappler aren't trained in the applications of eye gouges and groin strikes, because you can't practice eye gouges and groin shots in sparring safely. Both have the same theoretical knowledge, except the grappler also has grappling.

I tried to explain this to a certain martial arts style instructor/practitioner once and they couldn't wrap their head around the fact that everyone can eye gouge.

And sometimes their reply is they train eye gouging so they'd have an edge even though that's the same argument we make that a trained grappler has the advantage.
 
And sometimes their reply is they train eye gouging so they'd have an edge even though that's the same argument we make that a trained grappler has the advantage.
How do they actually train eye gouging? Do they pay people to actually gouge out their eye or do they just think about it from positions? You can't train an eye gouge. It's why you see elbows thrown less often than punches in MMA fights. It's harder to spar with them and you can't practice them as easily.

I am as skilled just by thinking about an eye gouge in this thread as any person who says they train them.
 
As my jits coach used to say- “if I’m beating your ass in the street and you try to bite, fish hook, or eye gouge me then I will simply return the favor.”

All that dirty stuff from an untrained opponent is something to consider when going hands on, but those same moves in the hands of a bjj black belt is down right terrifying.
 
How do they actually train eye gouging? Do they pay people to actually gouge out their eye or do they just think about it from positions? You can't train an eye gouge. It's why you see elbows thrown less often than punches in MMA fights. It's harder to spar with them and you can't practice them as easily.

I am as skilled just by thinking about an eye gouge in this thread as any person who says they train them.

Good question. Maybe they practice eye gouging by grabbing melons and poking holes in them. But I bet they don't think about it from various positions which is why they are clowns.
 
Good question. Maybe they practice eye gouging by grabbing melons and poking holes in them. But I bet they don't think about it from various positions which is why they are clowns.
Nobody actually trains it. That's what I am getting at. The trained fighter with the ability to eye gouge and nut shot will win 99% of the time because both are as skilled at gouges and nutshots. Both people are as competent in that skillset.
 
Agree with the consensus that a superior grappler will almost always have the advantage re. eye gouging. But that may not be so for groin attacks. Accidental low blows in training pretty much end the roll/round. In grappling in particular, any open guard puts your nuts front and center for a motivated white belt spaz to go to town. One of our BBs recently pulled butterfly guard on an overzealous noob, who obliged by knee slicing up the middle and sent him to the ER.

Even if you've already closed the distance and are attempting a sub, a dick grab from half guard can be a game changer, as this vid from a few years ago illustrates:

 
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