News Florida Commission Only Suspends Korean Zombie for 14 Days

[FIghtxIQ]

Yes

That literally is how it works lol.

They'd ask me why I'm wasting their time asking if I have a concussion with no symptoms and having received no head trauma.

A person's occupation doesn't magically change the definition of a concussion lol. That is so just ass backwards, wrong.

They can, but far less so than you think, which is quite concerning given you are in the medical field. What's your career there?

The actual best diagnosis would be protein production, it's just not practical to test every fighter for it. Concussions are notoriously underdiagnosed.

It's quite clear many fighters don't understand brain trauma and education is very lacking on the matter. As evidenced, no offense, but you objectively not knowing what a concussion is.

I don't have a comprehensive list for obvious reasons, but Priscila Cachoeira, Jonathan MArtinez, Amanda Lemos all received longer suspensions for hard fights. That's verbatim what that suspension is.

Say what you want but the recommended recovery time for concussion is 30 days. How do I know this? Because I've seen a doctor before and that's what was recommended. Also every suspension from fights after a KO which you think is a concussion is also 30 days. Just because you think people have something, doesn't mean they do. No symptoms, no concussion. It's very simple. You want to tell people what they have lol. People are supposed to tell doctors what they have and what they are experiencing symptoms wise. It's not for the doctor to tell them what they are experiencing and what symptoms they do and don't have. They are supposed to take those symptoms and try to figure out what is going on. You are the exact opposite, you want to assume everyone has something with no symptoms lol. Don't ever work in the medical field. You would be the type of doctors making nothing but wrong assessments and trying to tell the patients what their symptoms are instead of the patients telling you what their symptoms are lol.

Also I've been to medical school, have you?

 

[handle]

It's both horrifying and humorous that all these people's definitions of concussions appear to boil down to "I know it when I see it." Like...what the fuck do these people think is happening when a strike causes a fighter to lose control of their nervous system lol.

it's a curse dropped by the chosen champion of the JBG. but the JBG is notoriously fickle and will curse whoever at the receiving end of a JBG approved strike.

 

[avenue94]

You're missing my point, You and I are on the same side. 100% there needs to be a regulation as fighters for decades have shown can't be trusted when it comes to their own health. The issue is that even with a month long suspension, comissions dont seem to follow through on the issue cause a lot of fighters end up training and getting back into sparring not too long after. Thats obv. where you and I agree on. Thats why comissions only have that much power. Unless they cooperate with the gym and force the trainers and coaches to suspend their athlete, not much is going to change. But to what level can you do that? Eventually fighters will have to take the necessary steps themselves or at least the people around them do. But you seem to be quite passionate and educated on the topic, what solutions would you present that are realistic? Because I'm all for making sure, fighters are healthy (as much as the sport will allow) when they hit retirement age.

Btw. I love how you're responding to every damn statement on here TS. Seeing your discussions on the definition of a concussion def. is entertaining. Shoutout to you my man.

Thanks man, I see where you're coming from. Yeah, it's not an easy issue to fix. Fighters will spar after concussions or during suspensions, I agree there. The main thing with regulation for suspensions is making sure they don't' fight in an actual bout, since presumably those are more damaging than sparring with your teammates who presumably don't' want to knock you out (ignoring Chutebox here lol). Overall, honestly the most you can do is probably standardize suspensions nationwide and require licensing and education for fighters and cornermen since a lot of fighters aren't the most educated on trauma. But these are more lead a horse to water kind of things, so I dunno, maybe have older fighters like Gary Goodridge or James Te Huna talk to them? But a lot of fighters would hear those talks and just think, oh I'm hot shit and more skilled than they were, that won't be me.

And I suppose fighter pay somewhat ties in in that you don't want fighters fighting through suspensions because they don't' wanna get evicted, but that's a more tangential thing. And suspending promoters who skirt suspensions, but that will never happen for obvious reasons.

Edit: Oh, better physicals for licensing. The fact that Rashad Evans was licensed in Nevada after failing 2 other commissions is a fucking joke and figuratively criminal on the part of regulators.

 

[Kryptt]

14 days eh? He took a heck of a beating. What do I know though. If that's they call... So mote be it...

 

[avenue94]

Say what you want but the recommended recovery time for concussion is 30 days.

Yeah for a (singular) concussion that doesn't involve loss of consciousness. Association of Ringside Physicians recommends 30 days for a vanilla TKO, 60 for a KO, 90 for going out cold.

No symptoms, no concussion.

So if I have cancer, but no symptoms of it, does that mean I don't have cancer? Since you think concussion assessments are the end all be all, what's the Type II error rate for them? You say you have the medical background, so I assume you know.

Also I've been to medical school. Have you?

I have not. Not to pry, but genuinely curious. You say you went to medical school but you also aren't saying you are a doctor. Did you finish med school/board exams, or what happened?

 

[avenue94]

it's a curse dropped by the chosen champion of the JBG. but the JBG is notoriously fickle and will curse whoever at the receiving end of a JBG approved strike.

I think your take that Volk is a disciple of the JBG would piss off more people than me saying a knockdown is a guaranteed concussion lol.

 

[nstig8]

Florida Commission sanctioned Justin Gaethje vs. Nick Newell. I think you're asking a lot here.

 

[avenue94]

Florida Commission sanctioned Justin Gaethje vs. Nick Newell. I think you're asking a lot here.

Eh, to be fair, Newell acquitted himself decently against Gaethje and is a pretty legit fighter in the grand scheme. I've seen way worse mismatches.

 

[FIghtxIQ]

Yeah for a (singular) concussion that doesn't involve loss of consciousness. Association of Ringside Physicians recommends 30 days for a vanilla TKO, 60 for a KO, 90 for going out cold.

So if I have cancer, but no symptoms of it, does that mean I don't have cancer? Since you think concussion assessments are the end all be all, what's the Type II error rate for them? You say you have the medical background, so I assume you know.

I have not. Not to pry, but genuinely curious. You say you went to medical school but you also aren't saying you are a doctor. Did you finish med school/board exams, or what happened?

If you have cancer you would have symptoms. No one has cancer with no symptoms. Test would confirm if you have cancer or not. There's no test to confirm a concussion, they go by symptoms because it doesn't show up on CAT scans.

Also it's 60 days for going out cold. Woodley got 60 days suspension for going out cold in boxing. That's usually the max I've seen with medical suspensions from a knockout loss.

Of course if they aren't 100% by 60 days they would know and feel that. If you have a concussion it's not something you have without symptoms. It's very clear. You are trying to argue and give concussions to people with no symptoms. That's not how it really works when you get assessed. Can Zombie have a concussion? Yes, possibly. But he would be able to answer that better with his post fight symptoms compared to us speculating.

Not every fighter gets a concussion during a fight. If they do it will be mild to the point where it has zero symptoms and wouldn't really matter. It only really affects you if you have symptoms. That's when you are supposed to rest/recover. If fighters took 30-60 days off every time they get hit from sparring there would be very little fighters actually fighting and no one would be sparring. Anyone that trains, fights, and spars knows when they need time off after a head injury and they will know when they have a concussion.

 

[avenue94]

There's no test to confirm a concussion, they go by symptoms because it doesn't show up on CAT scans.

So you're ignoring the research in the past decade on protein production related to concussions? And again, what's the type II error rate for concussion assessments? If you can't even give me an estimate of that, you are woefully uneducated around concussions or medical knowledge.

Also it's 60 days for going out cold. Woodley got 60 days suspension for going out cold in boxing. That's usually the max I've seen with medical suspensions from a knockout loss.

Read what I wrote again. You clearly didn't the first time. Also, several fighters have received longer suspensions for hard fights, the fact that you are ignorant on that matter is quite surprising.

You are trying to argue and give concussions to people with no symptoms.

What is a loss of motor function immediately after a blow to the head if not a symptom of a concussion? Like...the fuck do you think happens when a fighter is hit in the head and knocked down as a result?

Can Zombie have a concussion? Yes, possibly.

He got knocked down clearly. That is a guaranteed concussion, not a possible concussion. Seriously, did you flunk out of a med school? Cuz your knowledge of concussions is appalling, and you haven't said you are a doctor despite attending med school.

Not every fighter gets a concussion during a fight.

Yup, this is pretty obvious, I've never claimed that.

. If they do it will be mild to the point where it has zero symptoms and wouldn't really matter.

If you think multiple asymptomatic (whatever the fuck asymptomatic means here) concussions are not likely to be deleterious to long term health, I don't know what to tell you. That's earth is flat level of dishonesty.

It only really affects you if you have symptoms.

Yeah, nope. Read the medical literature again.

If fighters took 30-60 days off every time they get hit from sparring there would be very little fighters actually fighting and no one would be sparring

You see anyone asking for this? Nice strawman.


Here's the bottom line. I've presented you the medical consensus on what happens when a fighter is knocked down and why it's a concussion. I've yet to hear your alternative interpretation of those events, so again. If a fighter is knocked down from a head strike, what is happening physiologically if not a concussion?

 

[FIghtxIQ]

So you're ignoring the research in the past decade on protein production related to concussions? And again, what's the type II error rate for concussion assessments? If you can't even give me an estimate of that, you are woefully uneducated around concussions or medical knowledge.

Read what I wrote again. You clearly didn't the first time. Also, several fighters have received longer suspensions for hard fights, the fact that you are ignorant on that matter is quite surprising.

What is a loss of motor function immediately after a blow to the head if not a symptom of a concussion? Like...the fuck do you think happens when a fighter is hit in the head and knocked down as a result?

He got knocked down clearly. That is a guaranteed concussion, not a possible concussion. Seriously, did you flunk out of a med school? Cuz your knowledge of concussions is appalling, and you haven't said you are a doctor despite attending med school.

Yup, this is pretty obvious, I've never claimed that.

If you think multiple asymptomatic (whatever the fuck asymptomatic means here) concussions are not likely to be deleterious to long term health, I don't know what to tell you. That's earth is flat level of dishonesty.

Yeah, nope. Read the medical literature again.

You see anyone asking for this? Nice strawman.


Here's the bottom line. I've presented you the medical consensus on what happens when a fighter is knocked down and why it's a concussion. I've yet to hear your alternative interpretation of those events, so again. If a fighter is knocked down from a head strike, what is happening physiologically if not a concussion?

Have you ever got assessed for a concussion? Do you know what they look for? Stop reading textbook definitions and use your own head to figure things out. Is there a reason why people who get concussions only get 30 days medical suspension across the board and 60 days for knockouts but you think they get 90? Find me a medical suspension from a fight from a TKO or KO that was 90 day suspension. Want to prove your point find that fact to help prove your case.

Not all concussions are the same, mild concussions are not an issue and require very little recovery time. You live in a book or you live in real life? Because real life examples is not the same as text books. Go to the hospital with zero symptoms and see how far that gets you. You would just be wasting everyone's time. Once again you are speculating, yes Zombie may have a concussion. How bad is it, that depends on his symptoms post fight. But you think he should get a 90 day suspension but the actual medical suspensions that most sanctioning bodies go for is 30 days for TKO and 60 days for KO. That's what is widely accepted and that's from medical science suggestions. Not sherdog doctor suggestions. Do doctors get assessments wrong? Sure, they do it all the time. But when it comes to the actual medical injury/condition there is a time line and ways to treat it that is widely accepted. That's what the sanctioning bodies use. Are there other ways to treat it that what is widely accepted? Sure, there are a lot of different ways, they can all be right, while some can be wrong. As long as the result fixes the issue, that's all that matters.

That's why medicine and procedures differs from country to country and they all approach it differently. It doesn't make them more right than the other, just different ways to end up at the same outcome. Like some doctors don't believe in chiropractors, but it works for many. Some doctors don't believe in acupuncture, but it works for many. Some doctors only believe in prescription medicine, some believe in natural medicine. They can all be right.

Yes I didn't finish medical school. I got kicked out and never went back. Regardless of that fact I was still in medical school and continue to research for my own health and to just keep up to date with current medical advancements. Covid also made me go back and start researching again just so I have a better understanding of covid and what it does to the body and the possible ways to treat it. Which benefited me during the pandemic. Having some degree of medical knowledge is beneficial for everyone. From knowing how to treat injuries and for overall health. Everyone should have some kind of medical knowledge, at least with the knowledge to treat injuries like how to stop bleeding from wounds, Heimlich maneuver, CPR, etc. Everyone should have that knowledge and ability because it can mean the difference between life and death in many situations.

 

[Spath]

KZ wasn’t out cold so no damage to his brain occurred! Thus no suspension.

*The writer of this post has a theoretical medicinal degree(Dr. Md) from JBG University in Bolivia.

Spoiler

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

You know you can still enjoy combat sports and also point out that a 14 day suspension for a serious brain injury is absolutely insane for a regulatory body. This kind of shit is how fighters die, it's literally one of the more common factors in deaths in combat sports, suffering a brain injury while still healing from one a fighter suffered in a fight a few weeks earlier.

you said he suffered multiple concussions in the fight. so he could've died then too?

 

[avenue94]

Stop reading textbook definitions and use your own head to figure things out.

Yeah...my head says that if a fighter is knocked down as a result of a blow to the head, they've 100 percent suffered a concussion (barring the exceptions I mentioned). It's also what any doctor worth their salt will say.

Is there a reason why people who get concussions only get 30 days medical suspension across the board and 60 days for knockouts but you think they get 90?

You seem to be unable to understand that I referred to the Association of Ringside Docs recommendations since most AC's are a joke and don't exist to protect fighters.

Find me a medical suspension from a fight from a TKO or KO that was 90 day suspension

Jessica Eye after Shevchenko. You're welcome.

Once again you are speculating, yes Zombie may have a concussion.

Nope, not speculation. Notice how you have no explanation for KZ suffering a knockdown. Because it's a concussion. Without a shadow of a doubt.

That's what the sanctioning bodies use.

I can assure you that sanctioning bodies are often not motivated by medicine or science and are notoriously behind the times. See Texas T/E ratios for a violation.

They can all be right.

Way off topic, but absolutely not lol

Yes I didn't finish medical school. I got kicked out and never went back. Regardless of that fact I was still in medical school and continue to research for my own health and to just keep up to date with current medical advancements. Covid also made me go back and start researching again just so I have a better understanding of covid and what it does to the body and the possible ways to treat it. Which benefited me during the pandemic. Having some degree of medical knowledge is beneficial for everyone. From knowing how to treat injuries and for overall health. Everyone should have some kind of medical knowledge, at least with the knowledge to treat injuries like how to stop bleeding from wounds, Heimlich maneuver, CPR, etc. Everyone should have that knowledge and ability because it can mean the difference between life and death in many situations.

Far be it for me to dig into why you got kicked out of medical school, but it kind of strains your claims to talk from a point of authority when you got kicked out and fail to grasp basic statistical and medical topics.

Do you even understand what a Type II error is why that's important to concussion assessments?

 

[avenue94]

you said he suffered multiple concussions in the fight. so he could've died then too?

Sure, he could have. The potential for death and longterm injury are kind of a given when talking brain trauma. Sometimes fighters are fine, sometimes they suffer years later, and rarely they die soon after. Not sure your point here.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Sure, he could have. The potential for death and longterm injury are kind of a given when talking brain trauma. Sometimes fighters are fine, sometimes they suffer years later, and rarely they die soon after. Not sure your point here.

just wondering what you thought. seems like Herb Dean is also at fault for not stopping the fight once KZ got dropped once?

 

[Dorkman]

Yeah if you get dropped probably should be at least a mandatory 30 days. Dropped multiple times? Yeah 14 days dosen't seem suitable. But that being said I don't actually expect zombie to get back in there quickly. So it probably will be fine. But yeah worrying trend. Don't want to see another Tim Hague incident.

 

[avenue94]

just wondering what you thought. seems like Herb Dean is also at fault for not stopping the fight once KZ got dropped once?

Nope. I think a corner stoppage after 3 would have been ideal. Or a stoppage when KZ was struggling to stand after that round. Herb's stoppage, as much as it pains me to say it given how shitty of a ref he is, was very good.

I'm not arguing for stopping fights immediately after a concussion, but I do think we can all agree that a 2 week suspension after a brutal beating is plain fucking absurd and regulatory malpractice.

Yeah if you get dropped probably should be at least a mandatory 30 days. Dropped multiple times? Yeah 14 days dosen't seem suitable. But that being said I don't actually expect zombie to get back in there quickly. So it probably will be fine. But yeah worrying trend. Don't want to see another Tim Hague incident.

Yeah I suspect KZ is done with mma after this. But like I mentioned at the start, the glaring issue with this is a 14 day suspension for KZ means they are giving 14 days suspensions to regional fighters who are much more likely to fight a month after a knockout loss or such.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Nope. I think a corner stoppage after 3 would have been ideal. Or a stoppage when KZ was struggling to stand after that round. Herb's stoppage, as much as it pains me to say it given how shitty of a ref he is, was very good.

I'm not arguing for stopping fights immediately after a concussion, but I do think we can all agree that a 2 week suspension after a brutal beating is plain fucking absurd and regulatory malpractice.

i agree 2 weeks is too short, but i thought it was clear after the first rd. his legs went jello even in the first pretty early on. i don't know whether it would be right to stop it, but i thought the fight was over from then on. he got rocked early in the 1st and then rest of the rds was literally Volk beating on him like a heavy bag.

i felt like the UFC is also responsible for putting together that terrible mismatch.

 

[avenue94]

i agree 2 weeks is too short, but i thought it was clear after the first rd. his legs went jello even in the first pretty early on. i don't know whether it would be right to stop it, but i thought the fight was over from then on. he got rocked early in the 1st and then rest of the rds was literally Volk beating on him like a heavy bag.

i felt like the UFC is also responsible for putting together that terrible mismatch.

Yeah, I don't disagree. I don't blame KZ's corner for giving him a few rounds since this was clearly his last title shot, but yes, mores stoppages, especially form corners, when fights are uncompetitive, are sorely needed. Unfortunately, the culture of mma is so regressive, especially form casual fans. It won't change until they see all the post-career damage, and even then it won't change much.