Law Florida Stand Your Ground story

Cubo de Sangre said:
You'd need to be more specific in order for me to comment.
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You seem to imply that shootings are justified if someone is facing the probability that another person *could* become violent enough to threaten your life:

Cubo de Sangre said:
For all you know he was going to talk some smack then lay down a more vigorous beating.
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Given that the initial confrontation started with a shove, would you say that police are justified in shooting suspects who shove an officer? For all the officer knows, the suspect could lay down a vigorous beating at any time.

I ask all of this because of this particular comment:

Cubo de Sangre said:
Whatever standard cops are held to sounds good enough for the citizenry. :cool:
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I'm not trying to say I have any of the correct answers, however what you wrote above is a two way street. If you believe that the average citizen should be able to shoot someone for being pushed to the ground, then how would that work if all cops were legally justified in executing anyone who physically touched them in a semi-offensive manner?
 
King of Fists said:
He was obviously yelling at her, which could constitute harassment just like a push could constitute assault.

Not my fault you're too busy quaking in fear at the idea of physical contact to see the obvious.
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Like I said if you think he broke the law by confronting the woman you're an idiot
 
The guy clearly was no longer being aggressive (and a push isn't meant to cause bodily harm) after the gun was pulled, and he was clearly retreating when he was shot. Bad shoot.
 
MMAisGod said:
Hmm, I'm going to bow out here because I agree with many of your points, and I think our main disagreement points are understood, but at odds due to that smaller difference in our beliefs. And because I have to run for a while. :D Good convo bro.
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Agreed. And thanks for the quality discussion on your part.


helltoupee said:
You seem to imply that shootings are justified if someone is facing the probability that another person *could* become violent enough to threaten your life:



Given that the initial confrontation started with a shove, would you say that police are justified in shooting suspects who shove an officer? For all the officer knows, the suspect could lay down a vigorous beating at any time.

I ask all of this because of this particular comment:



I'm not trying to say I have any of the correct answers, however what you wrote above is a two way street. If you believe that the average citizen should be able to shoot someone for being pushed to the ground, then how would that work if all cops were legally justified in executing anyone who physically touched them in a semi-offensive manner?
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It's far more nuanced than if someone could become violent to the extent it caused permanent injury or death. In this case we had a guy attack another and then posture as if more were to come. I reaches a point where it's not about accurately predicting what a violent individual might do next. It's about the burden placed upon the person engaging in self-defense and to what extent they can safely predict what the attacker will do next. Like with Castle Law. You don't give the benefit of the doubt to the criminal. You have to err on the side of the victim (while weighing the totality of the circumstances). The man was violently shoved, not simply pushed. He could have easily banged his melon on the pavement. Clearly the attacker had no regard for peacemaking or potential damage to the victim.

My comment about the police is for perspective. My general view is that cops shouldn't be able to protect themselves to a greater degree than you or I. I don't think conflating the type of shove in the video with something "semi-offensive" is productive here. Getting a pat on the bum would easily be semi-offensive to me, but hardly something that could cause severe neck or head injuries. I don't think anyone would suggest that either cops or citizens be allowed to open fire if spit upon.
 
oleDirtyBast4rd said:
Like I said if you think he broke the law by confronting the woman you're an idiot
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Few people in this thread seem to be saying the same bullshit. “He was harassing her” I don’t think these goobers know the law or can explain how what he did follows under harassment

To many people not wanting to deal with facts and rather have their judgment ruled by emotion.
 
The commentary on the video is really dumb.

The guy walks up and blindsides the dude with a hard shove. No audio, so I can't tell if the guy said anything first. The shooter doesn't seem to react to anything from the man before the shove.

The guy who shoved him kept walking forward until he noticed the eventual-shooter reaching. He started to back off once he saw the gun and ended up shot.

I think it was a bad shoot because the attacks seemed stop once a gun was shown, but some replies in this thread ignore that the guy looked intent on attacking further until the gun was pulled.
 
LogicalFighting said:
Haha. That’s how you’d react if some rando was yelling at your SO or kid?
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First, my girlfriend would not park in a handicapped parking spot. She has enough decency to respect and follow the laws. If she did try to park in one I would tell her to move.

Was the guy in fact yelling at her? I only saw the video where he was exchanging some sort of dialogue with the woman and then the boyfriend came up and pushed him. Even if the guy was yelling at her I would not have just ran up and pushed him down. I would have tried to diffuse the situation (I know I am a big pussy for trying to act like an adult). This guy wanted to be the big bad wolf and in the end it got him killed. He could have gone out and tried to act like an adult instead he wanted to be a thug. Dumb things like this happen all the time and lead to tragic consequences. That is why I would try to diffuse the situation and walk away if need possible. People can call me a pussy or think that I am a bitch but I would rather have people think that and live to see another day instead of winding up as a race baiting viral video.
 
oleDirtyBast4rd said:
Story has it that he has confronted people over parking before at this store. Doubt he only approached women
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I wonder if he’d be confronting anyone about a parking spot if he didn’t have a gun though...
 
Staph infection said:
First, my girlfriend would not park in a handicapped parking spot. She has enough decency to respect and follow the laws. If she did try to park in one I would tell her to move.

Was the guy in fact yelling at her? I only saw the video where he was exchanging some sort of dialogue with the woman and then the boyfriend came up and pushed him. Even if the guy was yelling at her I would not have just ran up and pushed him down. I would have tried to diffuse the situation (I know I am a big pussy for trying to act like an adult). This guy wanted to be the big bad wolf and in the end it got him killed. He could have gone out and tried to act like an adult instead he wanted to be a thug. Dumb things like this happen all the time and lead to tragic consequences. That is why I would try to diffuse the situation and walk away if need possible. People can call me a pussy or think that I am a bitch but I would rather have people think that and live to see another day instead of winding up as a race baiting viral video.
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I think diffusing the situation is not a bitch move so kudos to you.

But I think going to look for trouble shouldn’t be rewarded. I wonder if he’d even have the balls to approach people about a parking spot if he didn’t have a gun.

And about the parking spot and illegal parking. Well, she was in the car wasn’t she? So even if a cop was there they’d ask her to move rather than cite her. Her BF came out in a short period of time and during that time there were no handicapped people who were inconvenienced. So it’s not like the car was unattended and illegally parked.

People in the city sometimes double park with four-ways to run into store or restaraunt . People sometimes stay idle/waiting in a firelane by a grocery store while passenger runs in for 5-10 minutes. If they have to move then they move. That doesn’t mean they don’t have decency.

Also, you talk about respecting the law.... I’m sure you guys never go above the speed limit endangering the public. And I hope you never text while driving or drive an auto high or after having a few drinks. You guys are 100% law abiding citizens?
 
oleDirtyBast4rd said:
And you're free to speculate. It doesnt offer much tho
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Yeah, true. Neither does going up to random people you don't know to admonish them over a handicap spot.
And like I said in previous post, she was still in the car. People double park and stop their car in many inconvenient places that they aren't allowed to. It's the downside of living in a society with a bunch of jerks






I guess if George was in Florida he'd be justified in pulling out a gun and shooting the assailant who assaulted him with a push?
 
LogicalFighting said:
Yeah, true. Neither does going up to random people you don't know to admonish them over a handicap spot.
And like I said in previous post, she was still in the car. People double park and stop their car in many inconvenient places that they aren't allowed to. It's the downside of living in a society with a bunch of jerks






I guess if George was in Florida he'd be justified in pulling out a gun and shooting the assailant who assaulted him with a push?
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Dude got the Darwin award he earned. Not sure why you're so upset
 
First few posts covered my views on this manner

I’m a big supporter of stand your ground laws, but this is a good case to set the precedent on what actually constitutes a correct fear for your life/serious harm where SYG comes into play

Simply being pushed to the ground is clearly not enough. If the man had stepped forward to straddle the guy and the fear of being laid into by ground and pound was present, then it’d be gray area still but I’d more side with the shooter.

Elementary/Middle school Playgrounds have dozens of death threats a day if a push to the ground constitutes as one
 
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