Free speech debate. Dyson vs. Jordan Peterson

This was one of the worst debates I've ever seen. It had all the cons of a standard format that doesn't allow for back-and-froth conversation, but it lacked any direction that would traditionally come with the format. They barely spoke about what they meant to.

Fry stole the show. Witty and relaxed commentary and didn't take himself too seriously. I thought Dyson was out of line at times, and I believe that he is letting some of his negative experiences affect his arguments, though I would love to be a fly on the wall in the car ride to the Baptist church. I actually think they can agree, I just don't think it was ever possible given the way this was formatted. The woman had no place in that discussion, and that feeling was reinforced watching her attack Peterson in her closing arguments when she didn't directly challenge him during the debate, knowing full well he can't respond.
 
dontsnitch said:
This was one of the worst debates I've ever seen. It had all the cons of a standard format that doesn't allow for back-and-froth conversation, but it lacked any direction that would traditionally come with the format. They barely spoke about what they meant to.

Fry stole the show. Witty and relaxed commentary and didn't take himself too seriously. I thought Dyson was out of line at times, and I believe that he is letting some of his negative experiences affect his arguments, though I would love to be a fly on the wall in the car ride to the Baptist church. I actually think they can agree, I just don't think it was ever possible given the way this was formatted. The woman had no place in that discussion, and that feeling was reinforced watching her attack Peterson in her closing arguments when she didn't directly challenge him during the debate, knowing full well he can't respond.
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Is it even worth watching?
 
dontsnitch said:
This was one of the worst debates I've ever seen. It had all the cons of a standard format that doesn't allow for back-and-froth conversation, but it lacked any direction that would traditionally come with the format. They barely spoke about what they meant to.

Fry stole the show. Witty and relaxed commentary and didn't take himself too seriously. I thought Dyson was out of line at times, and I believe that he is letting some of his negative experiences affect his arguments, though I would love to be a fly on the wall in the car ride to the Baptist church. I actually think they can agree, I just don't think it was ever possible given the way this was formatted. The woman had no place in that discussion, and that feeling was reinforced watching her attack Peterson in her closing arguments when she didn't directly challenge him during the debate, knowing full well he can't respond.
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Yeah I agree Fry seemed the most on point when it came to discussion of the stated topic.

Peterson I think was trying to get into something more underlying, but it wasn't obvious what he was getting at as related solely to the topic. I know it was related but it wasn't obvious and could be perceived as confusing. I think he was trying to talk about the ideology underlying political correctness, but not political correctness itself. I think it would have been a better conversation if it was kept closer to topic in a conventional sense.
 
Hard To Tell said:
I've seen a lot of rabid leftists now calling Stephen Fry a Nazi and alt-right. They did the same with Ricky Gervais because he defended the Nazi pug guy. These idiots will never get it.
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Stephen Fry is untouchable. I will kick anybody in the teeth if they go after Stephen Fry.
 
Kafir-kun said:
Is it even worth watching?
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That's a question I'm not comfortable answering because it depends on the viewer. It is entertaining but not educational.

Watch it at 2x normal speed and skip the intro would be my general recommendation.
 
IDL said:
Yeah I agree Fry seemed the most on point when it came to discussion of the stated topic.

Peterson I think was trying to get into something more underlying, but it wasn't obvious what he was getting at as related solely to the topic. I know it was related but it wasn't obvious and could be perceived as confusing. I think he was trying to talk about the ideology underlying political correctness, but not political correctness itself. I think it would have been a better conversation if it was kept closer to topic in a conventional sense.
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Usually the moderator plays a stronger role, this was all very shallow I felt.

I want to listen to Dyson and Peterson talk privately. I have this idea that they can find common ground.
 
IDL said:
Yeah I agree Fry seemed the most on point when it came to discussion of the stated topic.

Peterson I think was trying to get into something more underlying, but it wasn't obvious what he was getting at as related solely to the topic. I know it was related but it wasn't obvious and could be perceived as confusing. I think he was trying to talk about the ideology underlying political correctness, but not political correctness itself. I think it would have been a better conversation if it was kept closer to topic in a conventional sense.
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Unfortunately, Peterson is not very clear and concise when it comes to debates. He just cannot seem summarize his thoughts when give a time limit. I have not watched Peterson in a debate since he "debated" two leftist women at the University of Toronto over Bill C-16 back in 2016. The debate consisted ofPeterson rambling and the two women, as well as the moderator, insulting and verbally attacking Peterson.

I have no intention of watching this debate unless there is a Stephen Fry highlight video.
 
dontsnitch said:
Usually the moderator plays a stronger role, this was all very shallow I felt.

I want to listen to Dyson and Peterson talk privately. I have this idea that they can find common ground.
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dyson seemed to be looking at it from a tribalistic perspective, and also American-centric. He seemed firmly in the collectivist group identity camp, so that is a fairly large disconnect.

He also said that political correctness doesn't come from those in power, which further shows how narrow he is looking at things considering its use in the soviet union and in China. The control of thought and speech on an industrial scale with political ends.

But yeah, Dyson seemed to be more of a performer and activist so who knows what he really believes. In private I could certainly see them agreeing on most things (with the exception of the two above)
 
Kafir-kun said:
Is it even worth watching?
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From what I have gathered this 4:30 second video sums things up well. The woman takes a sarcastic cheap shot at Fry and Peterson, Fry makes an excellent point and then Dyson goes on a long, off-topic, incoherent rant about racism and white privilege.

 
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IDL said:
dyson seemed to be looking at it from a tribalistic perspective, and also American-centric. He seemed firmly in the collectivist group identity camp, so that is a fairly large disconnect.

He also said that political correctness doesn't come from those in power, which further shows how narrow he is looking at things considering its use in the soviet union and in China. The control of thought and speech on an industrial scale with political ends.

But yeah, Dyson seemed to be more of a performer and activist so who knows what he really believes. In private I could certainly see them agreeing on most things (with the exception of the two above)
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Dyson did joke about gaining popularity through Peterson's fame, perhaps he was controversial to sell the debate, and himself by extension. I'm guessing there is some amount of jealousy by other academics who are watching JP amass a small fortune. Either way, I don't think he did himself any favors in the long run, though he did sell this debate.
 
dontsnitch said:
Dyson did joke about gaining popularity through Peterson's fame, perhaps he was controversial to sell the debate, and himself by extension. I'm guessing there is some amount of jealousy by other academics who are watching JP amass a small fortune. Either way, I don't think he did himself any favors in the long run, though he did sell this debate.
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It may not indicate anything, but I haven't seen any comments supportive of Dyson in the YouTube comment sections and forums discussing the debate. The most common complaint being that Dyson was trying to turn the debate on political correctness into a white-guilt session.
 
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Cubo de Sangre said:
I liked what Peterson had to say about either fundamentally identifying as an individual or as a member of a group.

Dyson made a good point about being viewed as a member of a group whether he liked it or not.

Old chap summed it up nicely by simply saying he doesn't believe political correctness works.
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Why can't you be an individual who is also part of a group. Like how most normal people act. Why is it one or the other.
 
Cubo de Sangre said:
It was a good point at at the time. I didn't say he went anywhere with it.
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What exactly was his "point"?

Mr. Dyson only pointed out that we have a concept of groups, and then acted as though he had just made some earth shattering rhetorical and philosophical breakthrough.

Mr. Dyson deserves little more than a GSP: "I am not impressed by your preformance." for how he handled himself in that debat.

Any supposedly good "point" he made, was also undone by his abysmal racism against Professor Peterson.
 
KONG-D'SNT-TAP said:
Why can't you be an individual who is also part of a group. Like how most normal people act. Why is it one or the other.
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It isn't one or the other, and that was addressed. People belong to many groups simultaneously.

It's prioritizing group identity over individual identity which is the issue at hand.
 
I don't care if guys throw ad hominem attacks around online, but this was a formal debate. Dyson is a clown, no wonder the crowd started booing. It looks like it rattled Peterson though, whereas he's usually known for keeping his cool in situations like that. I think he's been pushing himself too hard lately. My prediction is this whole rock star world tour that he's on now is gonna end with him being hospitalized for exhaustion or something like that.

It's creepy how Peterson has become almost like an Antichrist figure for so many on the left.
 
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