Tech Gaming Hardware discussion (& Hardware Sales) thread

jefferz said:
Ryzen benefits greatly from dual channel ram. They’re leaving performance on the table by only using a single stick.
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True but I bet most of these prebuilt companies just buy 8 gig sticks in bulk to save money and run either 1x8 or 2x8. It's a cost saving measure
 
560ti said:
True but I bet most of these prebuilt companies just buy 8 gig sticks in bulk to save money and run either 1x8 or 2x8. It's a cost saving measure
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It may be cost cutting, but it's still a horrible decision
 
560ti said:
Your always so negative. It will play games fine at 1080p. For a desktop priced low mid tier it will easily get the job done and is a great value for those who want a step up from a normal office PC.
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It would actually be much worse if the sticks were pre-installed as 2x4GB stick in dual channel for nitpickers.
  • You're only giving up 10%-20% framerates with 2nd gen Ryzen running the RAM in single channel across most of the more demanding games. Yes, that's substantial from a theoretical point of view, but from a practical point of view, taking the average 15% drop value, that's the difference between 60fps vs. 69fps; 120fps vs. 138fps; 144fps vs. 166fps. Unless you are right on the edge it won't break the game's playable experience.
  • Should these framerate differences matter to the buyer, or come to matter, it would be worse if the RAM was supplied in 2x4GB dual channel sticks. For any who followed my link to HP's Sunflower motherboard, as you can see (reinforcing Reddit testimony) despite the misquoted specifications for those HP Pavilions in numerous places around the web there are only 2xDDR4 slots. Thus, if they supplied 2x4GB sticks, you will forever be limited to an 8GB RAM total, when that is already beginning to show its age, unless you sell off the stocked sticks and replace them with 8GB or 16GB sticks. Most don't want to bother with that, because they don't have established seller accounts on places like Amazon/eBay, and if they sell locally using something like Craigslist/Facebook, or a hardware swap, they are less likely to reap a strong resale value; so either way, you can expect the nuisance of making the sale as well as fetching a lower value for the 2x4GB sticks on the market than they would command if they were brand new.
I actually prefer that it comes with 1x8GB stick instead of 2x4GB because it allows for this more sensible flexibility of upgrade pathing on the user side. Need that extra 15%? Spend $60-$65 and upgrade your RAM to 16GB, and you are future-proofing/enhancing the build simultaneously without sacrificing any value you've already purchased. For optimal pairing this requires a bit of care/knowledge with regard to matching the stick, but that's what upgrade/service manuals and hardware diagnostics tools are for.

After all, to be blunt, how dimwitted is the argument that single channel out of the box is a "terrible idea" when the price of the unit was $300 off the normal price, and $350+ off the top comparable prebuilds on Amazon as I previously cited? You could literally pull that stick of RAM out, throw it in the trash, buy 2x16GB DDR4-3200 sticks to replace it, and still come out WAY ahead.

<seedat><NoneOfMy><TheWire1>
 
Madmick said:
It would actually be much worse if the sticks were pre-installed as 2x4GB stick in dual channel for nitpickers.
  • You're only giving up 10%-20% framerates with 2nd gen Ryzen running the RAM in single channel across most of the more demanding games. Yes, that's substantial from a theoretical point of view, but from a practical point of view, taking the average 15% drop value, that's the difference between 60fps vs. 69fps; 120fps vs. 138fps; 144fps and 166fps. Unless you are right on the edge it won't break the game's playable experience.
  • Should these framerate differences matter to the buyer, or come to matter, it would be worse if the RAM was supplied in 2x4GB dual channel sticks. For any who followed my link to HP's Sunflower motherboard, as you can see (reinforcing Reddit testimony) despite the misquoted specifications for those HP Pavilions in numerous places around the web there are only 2xDDR4 slots. Thus, if they supplied 2x4GB sticks, you will forever be limited to an 8GB RAM total, when that is already beginning to show its age, unless you sell off the stocked sticks and replace them with 8GB or 16GB sticks. Most don't want to bother with that, because they don't have established seller accounts on places like Amazon/eBay, and if they sell locally using something like Craigslist/Facebook, or a hardware swap, they are less likely to reap a strong resale value, so either way, you can expect the nuisance of making the sale as well as fetching a lower value for the 2x4GB sticks on the market than they would command if they were brand new.
I actually prefer that it comes with 1x8GB stick instead of 2x4GB because it allows for this more sensible flexibility of upgrading pathing on the user side. Need that extra 15%? Spend $60-$65 and upgrade your RAM to 16GB, and you are future-proofing/enhancing the build simultaneously without sacrificing any value you've already purchased. For optimal pairing this requires a bit of care/knowledge with regard to matching the stick, but that's what upgrade/service manuals and hardware diagnostics tools are for.

After all, to be blunt, how dimwitted is the argument that single channel out of the box is a "terrible idea" when the price of the unit was $300 off the normal price, and $350+ off the top comparable prebuilds on Amazon as I previously cited? You could literally pull that stick of RAM out, throw it in the trash, buy 2x16GB DDR4-3200 sticks to replace it, and still come out WAY ahead.

<seedat><NoneOfMy><TheWire1>
Click to expand...

For people like you and me, yes it is better to have just 1 slot occupied at this price point. But this computer isn't marketed towards us. It's marketed to people that want to buy something, set it up, and never touch it.
 
560ti said:
True but I bet most of these prebuilt companies just buy 8 gig sticks in bulk to save money and run either 1x8 or 2x8. It's a cost saving measure
Click to expand...
Indeed, it is. The more cost-effective expansion pathing is just icing on the cake. That's of course for people who aren't too stupid to use the internet in 2018, and ask for a link from tech geeks like us on Reddit which RAM stick to buy if they want to upgrade.

Check out the current #4 bestselling tower on Amazon (available for the same price at Wal-Mart):
https://www.amazon.com/SkyTech-Arch...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SYNC16MRAA487D4VSJ79
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ryzen-GT...-8GB-DDR4-2400-1TB-HDD-24X-DVD-Wi-F/806726165
$679. It was $599 originally, when it launched a year ago, but this is where it is at, and where it has been through these holidays as when I posted that sale. Price must be high because it's just the sort of prebuild that is popular with neophytes who take it out of the box, and don't want to ever touch again.

R3-1200 + GTX 1050 Ti, but no 128GB SSD, an inferior (802.11n?) WiFi adapter that doesn't include Bluetooth, and sure as hell no Platinum efficiency PSU (not even Bronze-- it's 80 Plus). Doesn't exactly take a Field Medal winner to calculate that $679 is $150 more than $529 for that HP Pavilion sale.

So let's think about this. For $150 more you can have a CPU that is 5% inferior by effective speed, but a whopping 68% inferior overall (due to a lack of SMT) with no semi-powerful onboard graphics-- in fact no onboard graphics at all; a GPU that is a massive 82% inferior; and a hard drive that is likely ~2x-3x slower for the OS/apps with 128GB less overall storage.

But hey, it has 2x4GB RAM sticks running in dual channel, meaning you don't lose ~15% of framerate across games, so it must not be a horrible decision!!

Cooper-eye-roll-gif.gif
 
This has been cheaper recently I have heard, but I just snagged one of these the other day and get to come home to it tonight and hook it up.

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Alienware-Monitor-Resolution-Overclocked/dp/B0777RY75V

I am pretty stoked. I am coming down pretty far from a 49" Samsung 4k to this 34" curved screen beast, but jumping from 60hz to 120hz should be fun. This is my first gaming monitor, as I use to just strictly buy TV's with great reviews on https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-usage/pc-monitor but decided to give an ACTUAL gaming monitor a go.
 
SheetsMMAfan said:
This has been cheaper recently I have heard, but I just snagged one of these the other day and get to come home to it tonight and hook it up.

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Alienware-Monitor-Resolution-Overclocked/dp/B0777RY75V

I am pretty stoked. I am coming down pretty far from a 49" Samsung 4k to this 34" curved screen beast, but jumping from 60hz to 120hz should be fun. This is my first gaming monitor, as I use to just strictly buy TV's with great reviews on https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-usage/pc-monitor but decided to give an ACTUAL gaming monitor a go.
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https://www.amazon.com/GN32DB-32-In...BYYRRTYDAZN&psc=1&refRID=BWD3N8QFQBYYRRTYDAZN
wut? you can get 2 34in monitors for that price...

im gonna fuck with this or the bigger one i think
 
GhostZ06 said:
https://www.amazon.com/GN32DB-32-In...BYYRRTYDAZN&psc=1&refRID=BWD3N8QFQBYYRRTYDAZN
wut? you can get 2 34in monitors for that price...

im gonna fuck with this or the bigger one i think
Click to expand...

I totally get the appeal of spending half the price for something similar, but after going through those reviews, I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole.

Most of my life I was able to get by on buying the cheaper product with similar specs, but recently, that has been biting me in the ass like crazy, hence this purchase. Whether it has been shitty cheap headphones, shitty PC chairs, shitty pots/pans, shitty corded/cordless vacuums and stuff that the wife and I read great reviews on but had HORRIBLE experiences with, it just doesn't seem worth it to me to roll the dice with off brands or overall cheaper products.

I am starting to use that philosophy on my bigger purchases now more than ever, because I want this stuff to last. I get it though. I instantly face palmed and wanted two of those when I clicked your link too, but I believe that I will be better off with what I am getting. I just wanted to put my money someplace more reliable, especially because I can afford to right now.
 
SheetsMMAfan said:
I totally get the appeal of spending half the price for something similar, but after going through those reviews, I wouldn't touch that with a 10' pole.

Most of my life I was able to get by on buying the cheaper product with similar specs, but recently, that has been biting me in the ass like crazy, hence this purchase. Whether it has been shitty cheap headphones, shitty PC chairs, shitty pots/pans, shitty corded/cordless vacuums and stuff that the wife and I read great reviews on but had HORRIBLE experiences with, it just doesn't seem worth it to me to roll the dice with off brands or overall cheaper products.

I am starting to use that philosophy on my bigger purchases now more than ever, because I want this stuff to last. I get it though. I instantly face palmed and wanted two of those when I clicked your link too, but I believe that I will be better off with what I am getting. I just wanted to put my money someplace more reliable, especially because I can afford to right now.
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I’ve been kinda the same way with tv’s.

I’ve had friends buy all the Visio etc ones cheaper on sale and not outlast my Samsung purchases. They have seem to have lasted two to sometimes three generations of some of my friends tv purchases.

Like my 720p plasma I bought. That fucker is still perfect in every way.
 
GhostZ06 said:
https://www.amazon.com/GN32DB-32-In...BYYRRTYDAZN&psc=1&refRID=BWD3N8QFQBYYRRTYDAZN
wut? you can get 2 34in monitors for that price...

im gonna fuck with this or the bigger one i think
Click to expand...
I've never even heard of "Viotek" before. Is that one of the South Korean knockoff brands like on Monoprice? You risk playing the game of dead pixels where return shipping becomes more expensive than the monitor is worth, or more time-consuming even if you're lucky enough for them to handle that. Googled...
https://www.techspot.com/review/1667-viotek-gaming-monitor/
Yeah, they are one of these low-margin Korean brands that is reselling one of the two major Korean manufacturer displays in their own packaging (in this case a Samsung). At least they have US-based customer service. One worries that they may be more likely to be selling reject displays Samsung dumped off on them with several dead pixels.

Dell's Alienware is among the top half dozen gaming display merchants in the world (BenQ, Asus, Acer, LG, Samsung, Dell), and this unit uses a panel manufactured by LG. It currently enjoys being named the #1 Utlrawide Gaming Monitor by Monitor Nerds, and is a few hundred dollars cheaper than the top G-Sync Ultrawide unit named by 144Hz Monitors.

Rtings, my favorite reviewer by format, is slowly building their monitor review section. The only 32"+ size monitor that nets a better "Gaming" score from them so far is the LG 32GK850G (which runs $625 on Amazon), but also isn't an Ultrawide.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/best/by-usage/gaming

The major difference to price can be chalked to the fact the Viotek isn't a G-Sync display, and it isn't IPS. Notice the Freesync brother variant of the LG I just mentioned above is only $396:
Otherwise that Viotek looks like a great deal, but this isn't apples to apples.
 
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Madmick said:
I've never even heard of "Viotek" before. Is that one of the South Korean knockoff brands like on Monoprice? You risk playing the game of dead pixels where return shipping becomes more expensive than the monitor is worth, or more time-consuming even if you're lucky enough for them to handle that. Googled...
https://www.techspot.com/review/1667-viotek-gaming-monitor/
Yeah, they are one of these low-margin Korean brands that is reselling one of the two major Korean manufacturer displays in their own packaging (in this case a Samsung). At least they have US-based customer service. One worries that they may be more likely to be selling reject displays Samsung dumped off on them with several dead pixels.

Dell's Alienware is among the top half dozen gaming display merchants in the world (BenQ, Asus, Acer, LG, Samsung, Dell), and this unit uses a panel manufactured by LG. It currently enjoys being named the #1 Utlrawide Gaming Monitor by Monitor Nerds, and is a few hundred dollars cheaper than the top G-Sync Ultrawide unit named by 144Hz Monitors.

Rtings, my favorite reviewer by format, is slowly building their monitor review section. The only 32"+ size monitor that nets a better "Gaming" score from them so far is the LG 32GK850G (which runs $625 on Amazon), but also isn't an Ultrawide.
https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/best/by-usage/gaming

The major difference to price can be chalked to the fact the Viotek isn't a G-Sync display, and it isn't IPS. Notice the Freesync brother variant of the LG I just mentioned above is only $396:
Otherwise that Viotek looks like a great deal, but this isn't apples to apples.
Click to expand...

It appears Viotek has a Zero-Tolerance Dead Pixel Policy. You have to pay for shipping to them.
From their website:

Viotek’s Dead Pixel Policy:
This covers any Viotek monitor that is under our One Year Limited Manufacturer’s Warranty.

  • Viotek will replace any monitor with 1 or more fully dead pixel(s).
  • Viotek will replace any monitor with 4 or more bright sub-pixels.
  • Viotek will replace a monitor that has 6 or more dark sub-pixels.
  • Viotek will replace a monitor that has 5 or more mixed Bright or Dark sub-pixels.
What is a pixel?
  • A full pixel is a combination of smaller pixels to make a variety of colors.
  • A sub-pixel is one part of a whole pixel representing either the red, green, or blue color.
Pixel Diagram


viotek-pixel-explaioned-2.jpg

https://viotek.com/viotek-dead-pixel-policy/
 
Madmick said:
That is pretty sexy, but c'mon, Ghost, you're a PC gamer, you know you want 100Hz+. Because the size of the boat just manages to overwhelm my delicate sensibilities for the motion of the ocean when I start looking at those LG C series OLED displays.

The NVIDIA BFGDs are beginning to feel like vaporware.
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stop thiiissss lol
 
GhostZ06 said:
stop thiiissss lol
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LOL, I know. It just sucks. Right now gamers are wedged between two choices if they want to go 4K, and both cost a fortune. I just think the top OLED displays are more desirable among 60Hz displays because they're bigger, have better motion response, and better overall display quality/color.


LG C8 / LG B8 / LG E8 / Sony A9F (TVs)
  • 4K OLED
  • 55" - 77"
  • 60Hz
  • 1ms Response Time (>2.5ms = Actual 100% Performance)
  • $1,600 - $7,000

Acer Predator X27 / Asus ROG Swift PG27UQ (Gaming Monitors)
  • 4K IPS
  • 27"
  • 144Hz
  • 4ms Response Time (10m-12ms = Actual 100% Performance)
  • G-Sync
  • "True" HDR (1000+ Nits brightness peaks)
  • $1,800

As you can see the monitors still aren't even fast enough to keep up with the 120Hz+ framerate, so it's kind of a, "What's the point"? scenario. I think that's why everyone still gives the nod to the Asus PG278Q, Asus PG279Q, or Acer Predator XB271HU as the best overall gaming monitor in the world (for NIVIDIA GPU owners).

Those NVIDIA BFGDs are supposed to yoke the two worlds, with the size of the TVs married to the higher framerate + G-sync of the monitors, but unless they can achieve sub-8ms peak response times, hopefully with an actual average of 4ms or less, then they too might prove to be something of an overpriced gimmick.
 
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