Good guy with a gun (uniformed cop) at Parkland Highschool shooting didn't engage shooter...

[floivanus]

Just tackle the guy while he's reloading (nevermind who may get shot before he runs dry). I mean, it's pretty safe to assume we can all overpower any gunman out there. Probably shouldn't even have cops arrive with guns. Lots of confusion about. Somebody could get shot.

Think of the children, what if he has a 200 round clipazine.

In all seriousness, weren’t a trio of planes once hijacked with teeny tiny box cutters? We’re supposed to believe “tackling a shooter” is a viabledefense option, yes it can happen, and has happened. It’s the exception and not the rule.

As for armed teachers/faculty. If they want to carry and are typical recreational shooters, they’re most likely a better option that someone who does nothing. And considering most of these active school shooters seem to go from room to room shooting victoms who are cowered in some corner. I would hope the prospect of self preservation in the light of certain death would imbue them with some courage

 

[Fawlty]

Specifically, no, but I can guarantee that’s what he was trained and expected to do by every other cop out there. Hence why he was suspended without pay and retired.

We're sure setting a higher bar for this 54 year old guy than we did for all the donut chompers who stood outside of Columbine.

 

[Gregolian]

Which one are you referring to, Kinkel or Lanza?

Lanza

 

[Fawlty]

If you can't take the heat, don't dress like a chef.

Or maybe don't order a steak at Denny's.






I have ordered a steak at Denny's. Like the Parkland kids are saying, "never again."

 

[Bloody Pulp]

We're sure setting a higher bar for this 54 year old guy than we did for all the donut chompers who stood outside of Columbine.

Like I said. Columbine is why we are setting the bar higher. They fucked up their response because they had never really trained for or experienced anything like it before. We learned from those mistakes and do things differently now.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

In all seriousness, weren’t a trio of planes once hijacked with teeny tiny box cutters? We’re supposed to believe “tackling a shooter” is a viabledefense option, yes it can happen, and has happened. It’s the exception and not the rule.

One dude momentarily retracted his blade but who could rush a guy with all those seats in the way?

 

[JonesBones]

Or maybe don't order a steak at Denny's.






I have ordered a steak at Denny's. Like the Parkland kids are saying, "never again."

But seriously, even the cops think he is a coward. I totally understand your position. I would run too. That is why I don't get involved in it. Like these people on Naked and Afraid who get there and are suffering and say, "I never thought it would be this hard. People watching have no idea how hard this is." Uh, ya I do actually. Which is why I didn't sign up. lol. I know it is hell and I can't take it.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Soldiers freeze in war, too. I'm not sure staking arguments on individual human flaws is fruitful unless you'd care to examine the data in more depth to demonstrate how often armed guards freeze versus how often they respond (not just in schools).

Besides, the threat of illegally obtained guns (or other weapons) doesn't go away if you remove the guns. Your prime problem cited in this thread still exists.

 

[HereticBD]

I ain't no Rambo, so I'm not going to judge. He's a cop. Not a Navy Seal.

That said, he should be let go. That's the ultimate test, and he didn't cut the mustard. I'm not gonna shit all over him, and use him as some kind scapegoat for this tragedy, though. He froze in the face of death. He's human. It's far too easy to talk shit on the net, in your cozy, not facing a maniac with a machine gun, house.

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Out of curiosity, has any civilized first world country ever armed its teachers?

Regardless, I think mass shootings are very hard to prevent once it starts. The key is to have a society that doesn't produce these kind of peeps. I think it's virtually impossible for us given the machinations of our society.

At the end of day, think, if someone forced you to commit a mass shooting, do you really think it would be hard to pull off?

Even if teachers have guns, you can:
- gun down students in the school yard on lunch break
- go to a gathering like before a bush league sporting event
- blast people away in a public swimming pool

There are so many soft targets that it is HIGHLY unlikely some random will stop things before a pretty big massacre occurs.

In a free society, you can't have orwellian authoritarian controls so you can't prevent people from doing some shit like driving a car into a crowd of people. You simply can't.

 

[Fawlty]

Like I said. Columbine is why we are setting the bar higher. They fucked up their response because they had never really trained for or experienced anything like it before. We learned from those mistakes and do things differently now.

The mistake to learn from in this case would be to hire somebody different then? Giving up an officer who is a confirmed badass to SRO duty seems like a poor allocation of resources. If that's the primary concern, the real day-to-day work of an SRO (the reason this guy was recognized as outstanding) becomes less of a consideration. If we're using our logic to say that only the baddest of asses can be SROs, then we're saying that the smallest part of the job is the most important- which is the opposite of the logic that is employed to say that we shouldn't ban ARs because they account for so few shootings.

Anyhow, we all want to think we would do the extra brave thing here, but a lot of us wouldn't, and that includes cops. If there is ever a time to cut people slack, a situation where they are know they are outgunned by an unknown number of shooters with unknown equipment seems like a place to cut people slack.

 

[KILL KILL]

Soldiers freeze in war, too. I'm not sure staking arguments on individual human flaws is fruitful unless you'd care to examine the data in more depth to demonstrate how often armed guards freeze versus how often they respond (not just in schools).

Besides, the threat of illegally obtained guns (or other weapons) doesn't go away if you remove the guns. Your prime problem cited in this thread still exists.

Soldiers may freeze, Marines don't.

Spoiler

kidding...sorta.

 

[Fawlty]

But seriously, even the cops think he is a coward. I totally understand your position. I would run too. That is why I don't get involved in it. Like these people on Naked and Afraid who get there and are suffering and say, "I never thought it would be this hard. People watching have no idea how hard this is." Uh, ya I do actually. Which is why I didn't sign up. lol. I know it is hell and I can't take it.

I don't know if I would run or not. I like to think I would go in cold blooded, but I've also never been shot at. I don't think a 50+ year old cop went in with the expectation that he couldn't wait for backup during a mass shooting.

 

[Fawlty]

I ain't no Rambo, so I'm not going to judge. He's a cop. Not a Navy Seal.

That said, he should be let go. That's the ultimate test, and he didn't cut the mustard. I'm not gonna shit all over him, and use him as some kind scapegoat for this tragedy, though. He froze in the face of death. He's human. It's far too easy to talk shit on the net, in your cozy, not facing a maniac with a machine gun, house.

We all have access to unlimited dick size here.

 

[Squarechoke]

I don't think that shows up in statistics. Not too many people who carry are accidentally shooting people in public, although I'm sure there are instances.

Bottom line, it's not about that. It's about every person having a right to self-defense coupled with the fact that the people hired to protect you have no legal obligation to do so. If your morality doesn't adhere to that basic human right (i.e. self-defense) then we're very different people in that respect. To me it's immoral to deny that right.

What rights we have are defined in our respective constitutions, although that is of course subject to change (for example like how the US constitution has been amended a few times). I never said anything about denying people the right to carry a gun in the US, I just said that the answer to increasing safety isn't necessarily as easy as having everyone walk around armed.

 

[HomerThompson]

We all have access to unlimited dick size here.

 

[Thepaintbucket]

IMO every cop from now on who works on campus should be trained for high stakes situations. It's pretty clear your average donut cop shouldn't be protecting our kids.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I ain't no Rambo, so I'm not going to judge. He's a cop. Not a Navy Seal.

That said, he should be let go. That's the ultimate test, and he didn't cut the mustard. I'm not gonna shit all over him, and use him as some kind scapegoat for this tragedy, though. He froze in the face of death. He's human. It's far too easy to talk shit on the net, in your cozy, not facing a maniac with a machine gun, house.

Pretty much.

What rights we have are defined in our respective constitutions, although that is of course subject to change (for example like how the US constitution has been amended a few times). I never said anything about denying people the right to carry a gun in the US, I just said that the answer to increasing safety isn't necessarily as easy as having everyone walk around armed.

I'll save the natural rights vs. legal rights debate for others. Suffice it to say, I think anyone of age and with a clean record should be able to make the decision for themselves.

There is no easy answer to safety. No one size fits all. But it bears repeating, in America nobody else is responsible for providing self-defense on our behalf. I think it's a sobering fact to keep in mind when telling people they should just rely on the professionals.

Cheers.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

The mistake to learn from in this case would be to hire somebody different then? Giving up an officer who is a confirmed badass to SRO duty seems like a poor allocation of resources. If that's the primary concern, the real day-to-day work of an SRO (the reason this guy was recognized as outstanding) becomes less of a consideration. If we're using our logic to say that only the baddest of asses can be SROs, then we're saying that the smallest part of the job is the most important- which is the opposite of the logic that is employed to say that we shouldn't ban ARs because they account for so few shootings.

Anyhow, we all want to think we would do the extra brave thing here, but a lot of us wouldn't, and that includes cops. If there is ever a time to cut people slack, a situation where they are know they are outgunned by an unknown number of shooters with unknown equipment seems like a place to cut people slack.

There’s nothing to learn unfortunately, just one guy who could’ve and should’ve done something to save lives but didn’t.

This isn’t a SRO thing. All cops are trained on how to respond to an active school shooter and it’s not to do what he did. We all expect ourselves and our co-workers to do it and understand and are willing to accept the risks that come with it.

Anyone in this line of work who hasn’t already made that choice is in the wrong line of work. I’d expect another cop to go into my kids school and I’ll go into his.

If my kid went to this school and this guy didn’t go in he’d be retiring to avoid a historic ass beating when he came back to work.

 

[TheFirstEMP]

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel on Thursday said he has suspended without pay the school resource officer who was at the Parkland school where 17 people were shot dead.

Israel said school resource officer Scot Peterson took a position outside of the school but "never went in" as the onslaught occurred, citing security footage.

"In the case of Scot Peterson, our school resource deputy, I want to clarify any rumors, conjecture or stories that may have been out there," Israel said.

Israel said Peterson was "absolutely on campus," adding that he was armed and in uniform during the shooting.​

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local...r-Who-Was-at-Parkland-Shooting-474889753.html

"After seeing video and witness statements, and Peterson's own statement, I decided this morning ... to suspend Scot Peterson without pay pending an internal investigation," Israel said, adding Peterson chose to then resign and retire.

When asked what Peterson should have done during the shooting, Israel said he should have "went in, addressed the killer and killed" him.

"Our main goal at this point, absent of helping these families heal and keeping our schools safe, is making sure this killer receives the justice he deserves," Israel previously said.

In 2014, the Broward County Crime Commission awarded Peterson with the title of School Resource Officer of the Year for the City of Parkland District.

The group said Peterson proved "to be reliable in handling issues with tact and judgment."​

So a police officer with full police officer training didn't run into the building to have a shootout with the shooter but the plan is to arm teachers and give them a training course? Do we really expect an officer with a handgun to engage unknown number of assailants with AR-15's? I believe it has been established through the courts, maybe even SCOTUS that they don't have to risk their lives in such a way. The guy froze or "chickened out" but at the end of the day it's a job.

You’re a fucking moron if that’s your take on this. The officer is a coward. This only proves that the police aren’t there to protect you.