Greatest fighters of all time

piropiro said:
And yet the majority of people in the world would think of him as the “baddest” and believe that prime Tyson could KO the whole UFC roster. That’s my point, greatest goes beyond best fighter...
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If that is your criteria I take it back. If you account for popular perception then sure.
 
Sapp said:
Fringe top 15 HW of all time. That's HW alone.
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He is not the best HW ever, but in his prime/best night he was/is one of the best HWs. Some of his wins are so fucken underrated.

youngest HW champ ever and unified != overrated.
 
piropiro said:
PLEASE, NOTE TO EVERYONE

My point is exactly that most are not real fighters, in some cases not fighters at all, yet on a global scale if we truly ask “who is the greatest fighter” those are the names ... so my point is that the person actually best at fighting is not necessarily the greatest, greatest is perhaps a mix of personal and cultural impact that goes far beyond actual fighting skills and victories in the ring / octagon / etc.
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Twitter followers doesn't = fighting ability.

Your confusing most entertaining martial artists with most skillful martial artists. It's ok though most of sherdog can't understand the difference either
 
Ilovepizza said:
He is not the best HW ever, but in his prime/best night he was/is one of the best HWs. Some of his wins are so fucken underrated.

youngest HW champ ever and unified != overrated.
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That doesn't make any sense. Overrated = people rate you too highly, not that you aren't good..The fact that we keep seeing him brought into GOAT discussions prove he is vastly overrated. Top 10 of all time in his division is a gift, let alone overall GOAT.
 
Sapp said:
That doesn't make any sense. Overrated = people rate you too highly, not that you aren't good..The fact that we keep seeing him brought into GOAT discussions prove he is vastly overrated. Top 10 of all time in his division is a gift, let alone overall GOAT.
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prime mike is the goat destroyer
<rawsun>
 
JoshR86 said:
Twitter followers doesn't = fighting ability.

Your confusing most entertaining martial artists with most skillful martial artists. It's ok though most of sherdog can't understand the difference either
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I am not confusing the two at all, I am actually reflecting on the fact that probably by mainstream global perception - billions of people far less “technical” then the Sherdog experts - greatest is a mix of many things, with the actual fight record just one of the ingredients and in some extreme cases even missing altogether.

PS: does Tyson have social media accounts (I’ve never checked)? Bruce Lee certainly isn’t Tweeting and yet many millions of dilusional fans would argue that he’d dominate just about anyone street / ring / cage if he was alive today.
 
TS, you're referring to "great" in a different context than what it's usually applied in these discussions. If by "great", you mean who has been the most influential, who has has captured the most mainstream attention, etc, then you have a case. If by "great", you mean who is the best fighter, then you are incorrect. The problem is getting a standardized definition of the word "great".
 
piropiro said:
I am not confusing the two at all, I am actually reflecting on the fact that probably by mainstream global perception - billions of people far less “technical” then the Sherdog experts - greatest is a mix of many things, with the actual fight record just one of the ingredients and in some extreme cases even missing altogether.

PS: does Tyson have social media accounts (I’ve never checked)? Bruce Lee certainly isn’t Tweeting and yet many millions of dilusional fans would argue that he’d dominate just about anyone street / ring / cage if he was alive today.
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I used Twitter as a means to describe popularity among the general public.

Just because a fighter is more famous and popular doesn't mean he's a GOAT.

Just because Tyson is the most popular boxer from the 90's, doesn' mean he's the GOAT, let alone best fighter during the 90's.

Populararity is a very dumb criteria for a GOAT.
 
piropiro said:
I'm reasonably "old" and I've been involved in martial arts most of my life, so I've often thought about what defines the greatest fighters of all time.

My conclusion is not the results, or not only the results, but rather the impact on the public imagination, the real - or incredibly at times even just anecdotal - power which remains long after their career is finished or the wins have turned to losses.

After all, fighting is an ultimate expression of human physical and mental power; that is what attracts the attention of millions and what turns into legends people who are actually doing something blatantly negative from a rational perspective ... beating each other up.

So, based on that criteria, who are the greatest fighters of all time? Some ideas...

Mohammed Ali - he was and is "the greatest ever" to billions of people, a true master of physical and mental power in and out of the ring, in victory and in defeat, with fists and with words, through health and sickness.

Mike Tyson - adore him or loath him, when people think of the "baddest man on the planet" almost everyone still has Tyson in mind, including generations who never even saw him fight and over 30 years after his prime.

Bruce Lee - incredible for an actor who actually never really fought and who's cinematic martial skills are moderate (Jackie Chan and many others are far more talented and trained), Bruce Lee with his charisma capitalised on the luck of being the first real movie martial artist and has forever cemented himself as a mythical fighter to billions of people.

Jackie Chan - in Asia, so we are talking the majority of the world's population, Jackie Chan is rightly considered an amazing martial artist and thus to many automatically also an amazing fighter, whether that connection is real or not matters little in the collective imagination of several billion people.

Fedor Emilianenko - if we include someone from the MMA world then Fedor has tremendous popularity in eastern Europe and Asia, coupled with an aura of stoic menace and calm invincibility which fascinated millions and that hasn't diminished much regardless of his athletic decline and eventual defeats.

Others - McGregor has recently gained great mainstream popularity but weather it will last and become widespread respect is to be seen and doubtful at this point; Mayweather is very USA centric and whilst he has popularity he is not readily in the public imagination as a symbol of what/who a fighter is; boxers such as Holyfield, Frazer and many other greats are indeed great champions, but their popularity is rapidly declining with the passing of time; Joshua and GSP are respectively great ambassadors of their fight sports, with the right blend of exceptional skills, excellent results, pleasant personality and nice image, but the first is still in the making whilst the second is not known outside of the MMA fan base and north America; martial arts actors such as Seagal and VanDamme did gain widespread popularity as legendary "fighters" but eventually became unwilling parodies of themselves and lost any perceived credibility.

The UFC is huge yet it's still just a huge US-centric niche ... maybe in the next decades there will be MMA athletes who truly capture the global public imagination in a lasting way and became representative of what/who a fighter is.

There has always been and there will always be a fascination with fighting as an ultimate expression of human physical and mental power, in different socially acceptable forms from combat sports to fictional movies, as a needed outlet of primal human survival instincts; the people who will somehow capture the public imagination in representing that power will be considered the greatest fighters of all time ... in a way regardless of actual fighting ability or only partially because of it.
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Prime Fedor would beat anyone who’s ever lived in unarmed combat without eye gouged or low blows
 
1. Chael Sonnen
2. Bruce Lee
3. Jackie Chan
4. Conor
5. Seagal
6. Van Damme
7. Mike Tyson
8. Subzero
9. Lesnar
10. Zelenoff
 
myjohnson9 said:
Prime Fedor would beat anyone who’s ever lived in unarmed combat without eye gouged or low blows
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Possibly ... so he is possibly the best unarmed fighter that ever lived ... greatest? That involves many other factors as I wrote and most people wouldn’t think of him.

By the way, I agree that a modern MMA heavyweight champion would be among the best unarmed fighters who ever lived, yet given that every fight begins standing I would put also a Tyson, Foreman, Ali or Frazier in the mix ... last but not least, in ancient times there have been thousands of people - from pankration fighters to spartan warriors to shaolin monks - who trained their whole lives and used martial arts in life/death combat, armed and unarmed ... probably among them there were also some “unbeatable” fighters, we’ll never know but I think it’s very plausible.
 
piropiro said:
Possibly ... so he is possibly the best unarmed fighter that ever lived ... greatest? That involves many other factors as I wrote and most people wouldn’t think of him.

By the way, I agree that a modern MMA heavyweight champion would be among the best unarmed fighters who ever lived, yet given that every fight begins standing I would put also a Tyson, Foreman, Ali or Frazier in the mix ... last but not least, in ancient times there have been thousands of people - from pankration fighters to spartan warriors to shaolin monks - who trained their whole lives and used martial arts in life/death combat, armed and unarmed ... probably among them there were also some “unbeatable” fighters, we’ll never know but I think it’s very plausible.
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You are a dumbfuck lol
 
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