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International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. II

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Again, there wouldn’t be a conflict they could use as proxy if Israel didn’t create and sustain the conflict through occupation. By your logic Americas support and arming of Israel means we are by proxy attacking and occupying Palestine.

Your contention was "only the nation being occupied is attacking". I'm saying that's clearly not true. Multiple nations are attacking them via proxy.

I'm quite sure you know that multiple nations in that region mobilized against Israel prior to any occupation in Gaza, the West Bank, or the Golan Heights. So, it's not like they needed Israeli settlements as an excuse for conflict then did they?

Pretty naive to think those nations that make no secret of their hatred for Israel (even outside the Palestinian conflict) and have attacked before would just become peaceful neighbors without this specific conflict. You think the Mullahs in Iran give a F about the Palestinian people? Nah, it's the most convenient launch point for them to go after those whom they think have no place in the region. If it wasn't Palestine, you're nuts if you think it wouldn't be something else.
 
I think they could've done that already, if they really wanted to. Given their power, they've been incredibly patient with them. They're also not claiming(for now) a desire to take the region over, once they get rid of Hamas.

Thing is, Palestine wants to get rid of Israel. If you're Israel, how do you deal with that, without holding them down by force? I fully acknowledge that Israel is brutal in their tactics, but it's not without reason. That seems to be escaping people. There's a very good reason why they do the things they do.
Being "patient" with what? Robbing their land?

"Palestine wants to get rid of Israel"

Isreal IS getting rid of Palestine...

Disappearing-PalestineL.png
 
Your contention was "only the nation being occupied is attacking". I'm saying that's clearly not true. Multiple nations are attacking them via proxy.

I'm quite sure you know that multiple nations in that region mobilized against Israel prior to any occupation in Gaza, the West Bank, or the Golan Heights. So, it's not like they needed Israeli settlements as an excuse for conflict then did they?

Pretty naive to think those nations that make no secret of their hatred for Israel (even outside the Palestinian conflict) and have attacked before would just become peaceful neighbors without this specific conflict. You think the Mullahs in Iran give a F about the Palestinian people? Nah, it's the most convenient launch point for them to go after those whom they think have no place in the region. If it wasn't Palestine, you're nuts if you think it wouldn't be something else.


Iran is not launching missiles into Israel. They are not attacking it. If the occupation of Gaza stopped iran wouldn’t start launching missiles because they lost their proxy. By your logic the US has been attacking Palestine via proxy for many years. So are you saying America is and has been attacking Palestine? Plenty of countries say they hate America, they aren’t attacking us. Both sides get outside support but they doesn’t change the fact the only country in open conflict with Israel is the one being occupied by it and it’s been that way for a long time.
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-gunmen-were-high-drugs-163635798.html

"
Hamas gunmen were ‘high on drugs’ during terrorist attacks on Israel
James Jackson
Sun, October 22, 2023 at 9:36 AM PDT·2 min read
1.1k


2c26e2ac17175b333923f7082b0e02ba

Members of Hamas's military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, stand atop a destroyed Israeli tank in Gaza - Anadolu Agency
Hamas terrorists were reportedly high on a stimulant dubbed the “poor man’s cocaine” during their attacks on Israel earlier this month.

Captagon pills, a synthetic amphetamine-type stimulant, were found in the pockets of Hamas gunmen killed or captured by Israeli forces during the Oct 7 cross-border raid, Israel’s Channel 12 reported.

The news channel said that the terrorists had taken the drug before committing their “inhumane murders”. More than 1,400 Israelis were killed during the attack.

Other recent reports have also suggested the Hamas terrorists may have been acting under the influence of drugs.

A witness to the group’s rampage described the gunmen as having “crazy joy in their eyes, like they were high on something” while they were rampaging from house to house, killing people and taking hostages, according to The New Yorker magazine.

Captagon was the brand name of a stimulant first produced in Germany in the 1960s to help treat attention-deficit disorders, narcolepsy and other conditions.

It was later discontinued but an illicit version of the drug continued to be produced in eastern Europe and later in the Arab world, becoming prominent in the Syrian Civil War that erupted in the wake of anti-government protests in 2011.

0cc445a4768b8f4e775f8dc5dc3369ac

Hamas took hundreds of hostages during their Oct 7 attacks on Israel - Hatem Ali/AP
It was reportedly used widely by the Islamic State group, whose fighters were thought to consume Captagon to stay awake on the conflict’s front lines.

The illicit version – also nicknamed “the drug of jihad” or “poor man’s cocaine” – is thought to be made of a mix of fenethylline, caffeine and other fillers. It generates focus and staves off sleep and hunger.

It is currently mostly produced in Syria, where trade in the drug is a financial lifeline for the Assad regime, generating billions of pounds a year, according to the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office.

“The Syrian regime’s trafficking of billions of dollars’ worth of Captagon has helped to spread violence across the region; Hamas terrorists’ reported use of the drug only adds to the carnage,” said David Adesnik, a senior fellow and the director of research at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, a Washington-based research institute.

Footage of Hamas’s attack earlier this month shows a vehicle used by the terrorist group with a large bag of white powder on one of its seats alongside instructions for the assault, codenamed Operation Al-Aqsa Flood.

The Telegraph was unable to verify the nature of the powder that appeared in the footage.

In recent years, Captagon has become popular in Hamas-controlled Gaza, according to Channel 12.

The news channel reported that tens of thousands of Palestinians are addicted to the drug, with dependency rates particularly high among unemployed youth.
"
 
Again, Israel isn't occupying Iran, Lebanon, Syria. Those nations are attacking Israel by proxy. Hezbollah is based out of Lebanon, not Palestine. So it's absolutely not true that they're the only ones attacking.
To be fair, Israel is also occupying a part of Syria.
 
I don't believe eliminating Hamas is a solution to anything.

Hamas is guilty of war crimes. So is Israel. Shall we get rid of the Israeli government as well?
Who is we? We aren’t doing anything. Israel and Hamas are. To answer your question Hamas very much wants to get rid of Israel and the rest of the Jews while they are at it.

The Israeli government has a duty to protect its people. Getting rid of Hamas IS a solution to making sure a mass raid like that is not conducted on them again. You can disagree with that but that would be categorically stupid.

So we have the end goal of getting rid of Hamas. How does Israel do that without causing massive civilian casualties? No more spinning or avoiding the question entirely. I want you to wake up and realize this is much more complicated than your flippant anti-Israel comments give credit for.
 
Blowing up civilians is not a good idea. What kind of person thinks that it is?
Lol what kind of person indeed. Get off your high horse and answer my question. How do they attack an enemy hiding in the populace without causing a lot of collateral damage? Just like with the other poster you are avoiding answering my question because you know that you can’t. Maybe that should be a wake up call to you.

I’m noticing a trend here with some of you that you’re unable to face the harsh reality of the situation.
 
Iran is not launching missiles into Israel. They are not attacking it. If the occupation of Gaza stopped iran wouldn’t start launching missiles because they lost their proxy. By your logic the US has been attacking Palestine via proxy for many years. So are you saying America is and has been attacking Palestine? Plenty of countries say they hate America, they aren’t attacking us. Both sides get outside support but they doesn’t change the fact the only country in open conflict with Israel is the one being occupied by it and it’s been that way for a long time.

Israel is a sovereign nation, Hezbollah is a group that answers to Tehran and does their bidding. The US gives $ to Israel sure. And to Palestine. And to pretty much everyone.
Hezbollah attacks Israel at the bidding of Iran.
I'm quite sure you realize the difference here.
 
Who is we? We aren’t doing anything. Israel and Hamas are. To answer your question Hamas very much wants to get rid of Israel and the rest of the Jews while they are at it.

The Israeli government has a duty to protect its people. Getting rid of Hamas IS a solution to making sure a mass raid like that is not conducted on them again. You can disagree with that but that would be categorically stupid.

So we have the end goal of getting rid of Hamas. How does Israel do that without causing massive civilian casualties? No more spinning or avoiding the question entirely. I want you to wake up and realize this is much more complicated than your flippant anti-Israel comments give credit for.
This applies to you as well...

I thought that I've explained myself on this already but perhaps you haven't seen it.

I don't believe Israel want's to eliminate Hamas, I believe Israel want's to eliminate Palestine. Hamas is just a excuse for them to accomplish this. Hence why they are starting up north in Gaza, leveling everything, and shoving the ENTIRE populace out of the area.

This has been what they have been doing since they came into the region 75 years ago. Displacing/killing people taking their land and homes. This is nothing new and was going on before Israel created Hamas.
Being "patient" with what? Robbing their land?

"Palestine wants to get rid of Israel"

Isreal IS getting rid of Palestine...

Disappearing-PalestineL.png
 
This applies to you as well...
Lol might want to recheck that map bud. That unlike the murdered babies is a well established debunked myth.

That post demonstrates your mindset exactly. At the beginning of this whole thing for whatever reason, you decided you were on “Team Palestine”. Since then you’ve only searched for information that made Israel the badguy. That’s how you’re in here weeks later posting a map that everyone else following this thread has already see dismissed with prejudice many times over. I saw this play out in the Ukraine war thread with you shitposting old misinformation everyone had moved past long ago, and it’s playing out again right here

You need to actually approach these topics with an open mind. I know you think you do and will pay your own back for it on here, but it’s obvious that you do not.
 
Being "patient" with what? Robbing their land?

"Palestine wants to get rid of Israel"

Isreal IS getting rid of Palestine...

Disappearing-PalestineL.png
They both have the same end goal, the other just has the means to make it happen. And just because Israel can, doesn't mean Palestine is the victim here.
 
Lol what kind of person indeed. Get off your high horse and answer my question. How do they attack an enemy hiding in the populace without causing a lot of collateral damage? Just like with the other poster you are avoiding answering my question because you know that you can’t. Maybe that should be a wake up call to you.

I’m noticing a trend here with some of you that you’re unable to face the harsh reality of the situation.

Well that is the problem that seems unsolvable.

But it is also stupid to expect Hamas militants to NOT hide. Are they going to launch Qassam rockets and then all congregate in an empty parking lot to be bombed to oblivion? Of course not. They're going to be hiding in tunnels, dressed as normal civilians among the populace, etc.

It still doesn't excuse the immorality of just bombing civilian buildings with no regard for the OVERWHELMING amount of people that are NOT Hamas that are dying. Half the hospitals in Gaza are now offline and they're afraid babies in the NCU may not survive.

I think the first thing to help mitigate the violence is to stop the illegal settlement activity.
 
Again, Israel isn't occupying Iran, Lebanon, Syria. Those nations are attacking Israel by proxy. Hezbollah is based out of Lebanon, not Palestine. So it's absolutely not true that they're the only ones attacking.



Hezbollah was created during the 1982 invasion of Lebanon by Israel (and Israel still occupies part of Lebanon), and Syria is occupied by Israel (Golan Heights) and regularly bombed by Israel. I'm in no way a supporter of any of these groups, but to suggest that their existence is not related to occupation does not match the facts.

To be fair, Israel is also occupying a part of Syria.
And Lebanon (Shebaa farms)
 
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I think Israel **should** do everything possible to reduce civilian casualties. I don't expect them to though. They won't purposefully target civilians because there's no benefit but I think their priority will be to kill Hamas personnel and all else is secondary.

There is no "good" answer to what Israel should do here. Seems by your answers you tend to agree.

Definitely better answers than killing civilians. No need to default to that non-solution.
 
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