International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Koya]

If he really wanted to let Israel do what it wants he wouldn't have made aid to Israel contingent on getting aid to Ukraine which got roughly ten times what Israel was supposed to. People forget this but the ground invasion was supposed to happen 48 hours from the attack but was delayed for weeks due to behind the scenes pressure from Biden. And Biden did initially force them to let aid through and even forced them to allow internet access in Gaza at one point.

Israel is not a vassal state of the US, in fact it doesn't even have very deep loyalty to the US as it has good relations with China and Russia. The US cannot dictate policy to Israel and if its too forceful Israel might just decide to throw her lot in with Russia and China. If you think Biden is indifferent to the Palestinians imagine when Israel's patron is Russia or China. I think its clear now that I'm not a fan of the Zionist state but I still prefer Israel on our side and not with the likes of those states.

We'll have to respectfully agree to disagree here but to summarize they cannot dictate their policy of course but they can simply not send bombs. It's easy they just have to not send them, as said.

Don't forget that high ranking officials of the Biden administration have quit because all the usual procedures - including for Ukraine aid - were thrown out the window to send the maximum amount of weapons possible to Israel.

Don't forget also that they vetoed every single one of the ceasefire UN resolutions.

That they tried to cover the fake Al Shifa is a command center as long as they could and that they took the UNRWA accusations at face value and cut all funding to it despite it being critical for the survival of Palestinian refugees and that no relevant evidence has been sent to any international body or even ally.

So yeah I'm not cutting Biden any slack, he has enabled the ethnic cleansing in my book and I won't forget. We can "what if" Trump all day as others have suggested here - not you - but I don't care about hypotheticals. I care about what's happening now.

On another note and because you touch upon that, I don't see the interest for the USA in this relationship, it's clearly not symbiotic or advantageous for both sides, as Israel has no real loyalty to the US as you mentioned, but a parasitic relationship where Israel uses the US to the core and the US gets nothing back except shouldering all the international bad heat that comes with it. If it can't be explained externally it has to internally, and when you see the power of AIPAC and how close they are to many congressmen you understand a lot.

 

[Islam Imamate]

The "Christian" right just took away a female's (including impregnated children) right to not be pregnant in the United States of America. Let that sink in... A female (in conservative parts of the country) no longer has the right, even in the case of rape or incest to not be pregnant.

We just can't paint an entire religion with a broad brush when there are extremists who shout the loudest in all of them

There's also the Alabama IVF scandal.

The bold underlined part is a major reason why Hamas attacked, among other things that Israel did too.

Plenty of blame to go around.

I don't think we really know why they attacked. They supposedly say its because of incidents at Al Aqsa mosque in 2023 but I doubt that, I think they were planning this attack well before those incidents occurred. Even Hamas leaders in Qatar were blindsided by the attack on Oct 7th.

Great job on choosing Saudi Arabia as an Muslim ally of Israel. You know, the very same country that refused to condemn Hamas and have been actively calling for a ceasefire in Gaza. MBS also called on all countries to stop exporting weapons to Israel.

Yeah, sure. They're only allies in the sense that the Sauds are only interested in trade and receiving the latest gadgets and gizmos from them, courtesy of Jewish kafir ingenuity. Recognition of Israel as the rightful homeland of the Jewish people? Nah, fuck that. Give me your latest technological innovations and here's my oil in return.

You were before saying there can never be peace and I just showed you that some of the most religious Muslim nations are precisely on the path to peace with Israel. Now you're moving the goalposts and saying they're not supportive enough of Israel. Sorry but any honest observer can see the Gulf states badly want to ally with Israel and only offer perfunctory condemnations of them to maintain good will with the Arab public in the region.

Are you familiar with the alliance between the IRA and the PLO?


We've already discussed about Israel's role in the war between Armenia and Azerbaijan. I don't need to repeat myself.

In other words, political differences.

I see your line of questioning as mostly intending to again obfuscate and distract from points that you made.

And I see your dodging my questions as a way for you avoid dealing with the fact that if I interpreted your posts the way you do mine you wouldn't come out looking so good yourself.

Posters can follow our conversation and draw their own conclusions based on what you have said, but you certainly haven’t changed my mind regarding your beliefs.

Of course not and that's why as I said I expect you to be bad faith in dealing with me just as you've always been. Before I was a white New York convert and I guess now I'm an Arab Islamist or something, whatever you have to tell yourself to justify being dishonest with me.

 

[Ruv]

Defense Secretary TELLS THE TRUTH About Gaza Horrors & Gets In Trouble!​

 

[Samjj]

And I see your dodging my questions as a way for you avoid dealing with the fact that if I interpreted your posts the way you do mine you wouldn't come out looking so good yourself.

Of course not and that's why as I said I expect you to be bad faith in dealing with me just as you've always been. Before I was a white New York convert and I guess now I'm an Arab Islamist or something, whatever you have to tell yourself to justify being dishonest with me.

Yes, years ago you weren’t honest about your identity. I remember explicitly asking you your connection to Islam and you had described yourself as being curious but not identifying. I had returned years later to find that you now publicly identify as a Muslim.

You also told a story of being approached on a subway by a Jew and being asked to perform a religious ritual because they mistook you for a Jew.

My conclusions were logical because I had taken you for your word. A mistake I will not make again.

Other posters have identified you as an Asian Muslim. Indonesian? This would also cast doubt on your story of being approached on a Subway.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

You were before saying there can never be peace and I just showed you that some of the most religious Muslim nations are precisely on the path to peace with Israel. Now you're moving the goalposts and saying they're not supportive enough of Israel. Sorry but any honest observer can see the Gulf states badly want to ally with Israel and only offer perfunctory condemnations of them to maintain good will with the Arab public in the region.

In other words, political differences.

Yeah. Whatever "support" the Sauds have for Israel certainly doesn't come from a place of sincerity, that's for sure.

Pick another Muslim country that genuinely supports Israel and recognizes it as the homeland of the Jewish people or let's just end this discussion here.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

@Quadtavius Tuck

Welcome back, Wadtucket. I'm digging the new name, bud.

 

[Islam Imamate]

We'll have to respectfully agree to disagree here but to summarize they cannot dictate their policy of course but they can simple not send bombs. It's easy they just have to not send them, as said.

Don't forget that high ranking official of the Biden administration have quit because all the usual procedures - including for Ukraine aid - were thrown out the window to send the maximum amount of weapons possible to Israel.

Don't forget also that they vetoed every single one of the ceasefire UN resolutions.

That they tried to cover the fake Al Shifa is a command center as long as they could and that they took the UNRWA accusations at face value and cut all funding to it despite it being critical for the survival of Palestinian refugees and that no relevant evidence has been sent to any international body or even ally.

So yeah I'm not cutting Biden any slack, he has enabled the ethnic cleansing in my book and I won't forget. We can "what if" Trump all day as others have suggested here - not you - but I don't care about hypotheticals. I care about what's happening now.

America is a country that wholeheartedly supports Zionism, you can't expect Biden to take the country on a 180 away from Israel. He has to pick his battles and that means sending some aid to Israel while trying to restrain it here and there wherever possible. As posted earlier Biden got caught on a hot mic with some harsh words for Bibi so I think you're underestimating what is going on behind the scenes.

On another note and because you touch upon that, I don't see the interest for the USA in this relationship, it's clearly not symbiotic or advantageous for both sides, as Israel has no real loyalty to the US as you mentioned, but a parasitic relationship where Israel uses the US to the core and the US gets nothing back except shouldering all the international bad heat that comes with it. If it can't be explained externally it has to internally, and when you see the power of AIPAC and how close they are to many congressmen you understand a lot.

People point to AIPAC but at the end of the day Americans like Israel because Jewish folks are very well integrated into mainstream American society which means both American Jews and gentiles are going to have a more positive view of Israel than they would any Arab-Muslim nation.

Any minority that can integrate into the mainstream of its host nation can leverage that to improve ties between their host country and their country and that's not really unique to Jews.

Yes, years ago you weren’t honest about your identity. I remember explicitly asking you your connection to Islam and you had described yourself as being curious but not identifying. I had returned years later to find that you now publicly identify as a Muslim.

Maybe I actually changed my mind? No, I must be lying.

You also told a story of being approached on a subway by a Jew and being asked to perform a religious ritual because they mistook you for a Jew.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

My conclusions were logical because I had taken you for your word. A mistake I will not make again.

Feel how you want but don't be surprised if I don't want to engage with a poster who is as bad faith and dishonest with me as you are.

Yeah. Whatever "support" the Sauds have for Israel certainly doesn't come from a place of sincerity, that's for sure.

Pick another Muslim country that genuinely supports Israel and recognizes it as the homeland of the Jewish people or let's just end this discussion here.

I hope everyone can see that you blatantly moved the goalposts.

Even still I can point to Azerbaijan. I'm sure you'll find a way to move the goalposts yet again though.

 

[Samjj]

America is a country that wholeheartedly supports Zionism, you can't expect Biden to take the country on a 180 away from Israel. He has to pick his battles and that means sending some aid to Israel while trying to restrain it here and there wherever possible. As posted earlier Biden got caught on a hot mic with some harsh words for Bibi so I think you're underestimating what is going on behind the scenes.

People point to AIPAC but at the end of the day Americans like Israel because Jewish folks are very well integrated into mainstream American society which means both American Jews and gentiles are going to have a more positive view of Israel than they would any Arab-Muslim nation.

Any minority that can integrate into the mainstream of its host nation can leverage that to improve ties between their host country and their country and that's not really unique to Jews.

Maybe I actually changed my mind? No, I must be lying.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Feel how you want but don't be surprised if I don't want to engage with a poster who is as bad faith and dishonest with me as you are.

I hope everyone can see that you blatantly moved the goalposts.

Even still I can point to Azerbaijan. I'm sure you'll find a way to move the goalposts yet again though.

In the last decade I have spent less time arguing with strangers on the internet than you have. This means that my sample size has been much smaller and as a part of that grouping, you certainly stood out on here.

In that same vein, I remember your postings.
Your accusations of bad faith from me towards you come by me earnestly. I think you’re frequently dishonest and have been since I first interacted with you. It is clear that your reputation on here is very important to you and you will go through great lengths to protect it.

Your decision to reveal your identity as a Muslim is your perogative and I certainly could understand the ambivalence regarding sharing that information - but lying about your religious beliefs in the context of arguing about a religious and ethnic conflict doesn’t lend to trusting your word.

 

[kflo]

We'll have to respectfully agree to disagree here but to summarize they cannot dictate their policy of course but they can simple not send bombs. It's easy they just have to not send them, as said.

Don't forget that high ranking official of the Biden administration have quit because all the usual procedures - including for Ukraine aid - were thrown out the window to send the maximum amount of weapons possible to Israel.

Don't forget also that they vetoed every single one of the ceasefire UN resolutions.

That they tried to cover the fake Al Shifa is a command center as long as they could and that they took the UNRWA accusations at face value and cut all funding to it despite it being critical for the survival of Palestinian refugees and that no relevant evidence has been sent to any international body or even ally.

So yeah I'm not cutting Biden any slack, he has enabled the ethnic cleansing in my book and I won't forget. We can "what if" Trump all day as others have suggested here - not you - but I don't care about hypotheticals. I care about what's happening now.

On another note and because you touch upon that, I don't see the interest for the USA in this relationship, it's clearly not symbiotic or advantageous for both sides, as Israel has no real loyalty to the US as you mentioned, but a parasitic relationship where Israel uses the US to the core and the US gets nothing back except shouldering all the international bad heat that comes with it. If it can't be explained externally it has to internally, and when you see the power of AIPAC and how close they are to many congressmen you understand a lot.

The US still stands behind Al shifa as a command center. i know you can’t accept the idea that it was.

Even though we factually know they were active in hospitals.

 

[Islam Imamate]

In the last decade I have spent less time arguing with strangers on the internet than you have. This means that my sample size has been much smaller and as a part of that grouping, you certainly stood out on here.

In that same vein, I remember your postings.
Your accusations of bad faith from me towards you come by me earnestly. I think you’re frequently dishonest and have been since I first interacted with you. It is clear that your reputation on here is very important to you and you will go through great lengths to protect it.

The feeling is definitely mutual.

Our interactions have always come off as you trying to interrogate me because its usually you responding to my posts as I'd rather not have much to do with you. And yet when I try to turn it into a conversation you will evade and dodge my questions and responses as you've done here.

Your decision to reveal your identity as a Muslim is your perogative and I certainly could understand the ambivalence regarding sharing that information - but lying about your religious beliefs in the context of arguing about a religious and ethnic conflict doesn’t lend to trusting your word.

I didn't lie though, I've been arguing here long enough that I've changed my mind on all sorts of issues. That you assume I lie is just another example of your being bad faith.

 

[Samjj]

I didn't lie though, I've been arguing here long enough that I've changed my mind on all sorts of issues. That you assume I lie is just another example of your being bad faith.

Last time we interacted directly on the subject I think it was around 2013? I asked you if you were Muslim and you said no and clarified that it was just a field of interest. In this last round of interaction regarding the subject now you identify as a “born Muslim”. Do you really think it is a bad faith interpretation on my part to think you had lied in 2013 or a logical conclusion?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Last time we interacted directly on the subject I think it was around 2013? I asked you if you were Muslim and you said no and clarified that it was just a field of interest. In this last round of interaction regarding the subject now you identify as a “born Muslim”. Do you really think it is a bad faith interpretation on my part to think you had lied in 2013 or a logical conclusion?

That's obviously bad faith, if you were confused about it you could've just asked me to clarify. I've had people be confused about those kinds of questions before and when I say something that contradicts what they assumed of me instead of assuming I'm lying they simply correct themselves. I've had posters think I'm Persian or Indonesian and when I corrected them they didn't go around saying I lied about being Persian or Indonesian. If I was lying why wouldn't I keep lying? Assuming you were mistaken would've made much more sense but somehow I don't think that comes naturally to you.

Obviously at this point I would prefer not to answer any of your questions about my personal life given your inclination to misrepresent my posts. You can think I'm a New York convert if you want.

 

[Koya]

ICRC: Children in Gaza searching for food in rubbish



'Children barefoot, walking through the mud, opening up rubbish bags to see what there is inside them'

William Schomburg, the head of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) office in Gaza, emphasises that the humanitarian needs in Gaza today are incredibly vast and unprecedented. He explains that there are only limited quantities of assistance that can be delivered through airdrops.

Schomburg vividly describes scenes that are tragically common in Gaza, where it's common to see barefoot children walking through mud, scavenging through rubbish bags in search of anything they can find to eat or use.

 

[William Munny]

Last time we interacted directly on the subject I think it was around 2013? I asked you if you were Muslim and you said no and clarified that it was just a field of interest. In this last round of interaction regarding the subject now you identify as a “born Muslim”. Do you really think it is a bad faith interpretation on my part to think you had lied in 2013 or a logical conclusion?

DM incoming

 

[Rholk]

Israeli air strike targets landmark residential tower in southern Rafah • FRANCE 24 English



Israel struck one of the largest residential towers in Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip on Saturday, residents said, stepping up pressure on the last area of the enclave it has not yet invaded and where over a million displaced Palestinians are sheltering. The 12-floor building, located some 500 metres from the border with Egypt, was damaged in the strike. Dozens of families were made homeless though no casualties were reported, according to residents

Residents were notified by the IDF to leave the building, to make sure no civilians were wounded in the strike.

 

[Denter]

Kind of curious

Why is it fine for the entire middle east to be a Muslim ethno region , but the idea of the jews having a small piece of their own ethnoland is just not tolerable?

Islam has no ethnic content.

 

[tastaylvr]

 

[Hog-train]

If you want to maintain your consistency in expressing your outrage towards these so-called colonizers, how about you air your grievances to the Spaniards who drove out the Moors who had lived in Al-Andalus for centuries as well?

I already answered your whataboutism question.

That happened in the 1400's and I don't care. This thread is about Israel and that's irrelevant to what we're discussing.

I could turn around and say the exact same shit to you. How come you don't support the Native Americans getting all of America back? That is their ancestral land - in fact much longer than 2,000 years ago Jews were in Israel.

I think it's hard to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one.

islamimam hosted at ImgBB

Image islamimam hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

I think you're obfuscating here. There is ambiguity in liking a post which contains many points. For example I can support this claim regarding Israel's Arab population contradicting claims of ethnic cleansing. Liking a single sentence post which claims "I support Hamas 100%" leaves little ambiguity.

You're seriously doing the "like" police from 4 years ago? You have also liked posts which I feel have some extreme elements to it.

Sometimes I feel like you're arguing in good faith and then sometimes you show that you're just trying to get some kind of cheap gotcha.

Address arguments logically and head on instead of trying to cheaply discredit the poster making the argument.

Ad Hominem: This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

I already answered your whataboutism question.

That happened in the 1400's and I don't care. This thread is about Israel and that's irrelevant to what we're discussing.

I could turn around and say the exact same shit to you. How come you don't support the Native Americans getting all of America back? That is their ancestral land - in fact much longer than 2,000 years ago Jews were in Israel.

Yes you have. So why are you requoting me and answering it again?

 

[BAM]

I suspect something like this has happened with every army in every war ever. It's just now, we see it due to body cams, internet data leaks, camera phones, social media etc. Now people can see all the awful shit that goes on in war without the need of an embedded journalist or a publication hand-selecting footage or photographs for curated stories. Hopefully, it serves as an eye-opener for all wars going forward. Are you prepared to just go along with a ground invasion when a neo-con or neo-lib waves their hands and talks about 'spreading democracy' and promoting 'American interests'.