International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

On one hand I don't disagree with you. You make a fair point. However it seems like you do your extra due diligence here when someone from who you consider the 'Zionist' perspective posts something and yet you don't do much of it when Koya, Testa, etc post extremely inflammatory stories, with little or no substantiation, etc....you simply like their posts an move on...
I try not to post propaganda links and certainly not something like a random Zionist blog, I prefer links to reputable news sources like AP and Reuters.

As for Koya you can call him out for his lack of due diligence if you like, I don't think I'm obligated to call out each and every bad post. I have in fact called hiim out myself for posts he's made I've disagreed with but I don't think I should have to justify calling out your use of blatant propaganda.
Yes Israel's settlement expansion is wrong. Yet most of the time we can only focus on things that we can control. Hamas has limited options and resources compared to Israel. However releasing the hostages would put pressure on Israeli government and US to push for a ceasefire and end the war. Would there be a ceasefire 100%? Absolutely not. But it would completely remove a big chunk of Israel supporters for continuing the war. I am honestly 50/50. I do want Israel to demolish the tunnels. Not doing so merely pushes the problem yet again into the future. But I think Israel can take a softer approach to clearing the area.

Sometimes all you can do is take tangible steps within your control to show good faith effort to ending hostilities.
Who is we here? Hamas is a rogue organization aligned with pariah states like Syria and Iran, no reason to think the West can have any control over them.

In theory Israel is part of the West and we should be able to exert influence over them but I think we can increasingly see that's not really true. The more I think about it the more I see the idea of Israel as a "Western ally" as a farce. They sell US secrets and weapons to our enemies and pariah states like Myanmar and they routinely violate international law. We're looking at two mad dog going at each other in a junkyard.
 
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Bullshit. Israel selling weapons to China would be against USA's interests.

Point to me on this graph where it says China:


Also:


After Russia, the next largest sources of weapons for China from 2016 to 2020 were France (9.7 per cent) and Ukraine (6.3 per cent).

From 2016 to 2020, China was the largest recipient of Ukrainian weapons, receiving 36 per cent of Ukraine’s total exports. According to SIPRI, Ukraine exports US$80-90 million worth of weapons to China annually.





The only country that comes to mind that fits this description is Azerbaijan. And maybe Saudi Arabia.

Maybe these graphs are purely talking about just weapons and not military equipment as a whole. Or maybe your links are simply wrong. I'm reading differing info with a simple Google search.

"Israel is now China's second-largest foreign supplier of arms after Russia with China having purchased a wide array of military equipment and technology, including communications satellites. China is a vital market for Israel's aerospace and defense industry."


And Israel doesn't always do things aligned with the US interests. Several stories showing the US having concerns about Israel's military sales to China.




 
. Overall my perception is that the Israelis step on the palestinians and if you reversed the situation it would be the same.
really ? the same ? you mean suicide bombers and never ending refusal for a 2 state solution

you have no idea what you are talking about

and i don't look for righteousness, i couldn't care less about dignity, but i will survive, because i think with my brain and not with my heart

not only that but you will see in the near future more and more muslim nations will turn into syria and iraq that had an idea to build nuclear weapons, I only need patience because as the nation of god I can't lose
 
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really ? the same ? you means suicide bombers and never ending refusal for a 2 state solution

you have no idea what you are talking about

and i don't look for righteousness, i couldn't care less about dignity, but i will survive, because i think with my brain and not with my heart

not only that but you will see in the near future more and more muslim nations will turn into syria and iraq that had an idea to build nuclear weapons, I only need patience because as the nation of god I can't lose
I mean with the power... they may not have idiots like that... and I think the result would be the same. Palestinians making Israelis 2nd class. Dont get me wrong. I'm pro-Israel but I'm also not naive when it comes to governments. The people CAN live together imo.
 
And Israel doesn't always do things aligned with the US interests. Several stories showing the US having concerns about Israel's military sales to China.
obama tried to stop israel from building in jerusalem
obama supported the Resolution 2334

so yes they sometimes don't aligned
 
Maybe these graphs are purely talking about just weapons and not military equipment as a whole. Or maybe your links are simply wrong. I'm reading differing info with a simple Google search.

"Israel is now China's second-largest foreign supplier of arms after Russia with China having purchased a wide array of military equipment and technology, including communications satellites. China is a vital market for Israel's aerospace and defense industry."

That excerpt from the Wikipedia article cites a news article from 2004. The news article I posted is from 2021.


And Israel doesn't always do things aligned with the US interests. Several stories showing the US having concerns about Israel's military sales to China.





Again, these news articles are discussing incidents that happened more than two decades ago.
 
Maybe these graphs are purely talking about just weapons and not military equipment as a whole. Or maybe your links are simply wrong. I'm reading differing info with a simple Google search.
Its probably because those sales are clandestine for the obvious reason that they go against agreements with the US. Israel didn't exactly advertise its sales to the Myanmar Junta either.
 
I try not to post propaganda links and certainly not something like a random Zionist blog, I prefer links to reputable news sources like AP and Reuters.

As for Koya you can call him out for his lack of due diligence if you like, I don't think I'm obligated to call out each and every bad post. I have in fact called hiim out myself for posts he's made I've disagreed with but I don't think I should have to justify calling out your use of blatant propaganda.

Yes I generally post links to more mainstream sources as well. Yet for all your protests for this being a blog, poor source, etc it still provided the poll and gave you an opportunity to go look at it yourself. I would not call it 'blatant propaganda'. Sure their focus may have been slanted somewhat but that's typical. Even a source like Reuters has become less trustworthy over the years. If you have a better source that discusses this poll I am all ears.

I can't say I have read your every post in this thread, but by and large you are noticeably less critical/diligent in how you read and interpret leftist sources.

Who is we here? Hamas is a rogue organization aligned with pariah states like Syria and Iran, no reason to think the West can have any control over them.

In theory Israel is part of the West and we should be able to exert influence over them but I think we can increasingly see that's not really true. The more I think about it the more I see the idea of Israel as a "Western ally" as a farce. They sell US secrets and weapons to our enemies and pariah states like Myanmar and they routinely violate international law. We're looking at two mad dog going at each other in a junkyard.

I phrased my post from the mindset of Hamas. If I were them, and I wanted to reduce Western support for Israel and shift the narrative, releasing the hostages would be an obvious step. Even in this thread we have posters stating that it's why they support continued Israeli military action.

If you are trying to say that Hamas are not rational actors then it really makes no sense to negotiate with them.

While Israel is far from perfect, trying to pretend it is just like Hamas is quite far fetched.

The Israeli far right government is a direct response to the Hamas and the never ending terrorism. If Arab states make peace with Israel, I suspect Israel will revert back to more centrist government.
 
Who is we here? Hamas is a rogue organization aligned with pariah states like Syria and Iran, no reason to think the West can have any control over them.

In theory Israel is part of the West and we should be able to exert influence over them but I think we can increasingly see that's not really true. The more I think about it the more I see the idea of Israel as a "Western ally" as a farce. They sell US secrets and weapons to our enemies and pariah states like Myanmar and they routinely violate international law. We're looking at two mad dog going at each other in a junkyard.
Hamas does obviously have links with more western allied gulf states with a lot of their leadership living in Qatar really my guess is that there isnt the political will from the US to put pressure on them, either for fear it might push them more into alliance with China/Russia/Iran or simply that the US doesnt care that much about stopping the conflict.

I mean we know Lukid viewed Hamas as an asset because they helped to spilt power and were a away of avoiding the peace process and honestly I wouldnt be supprised if recent US presidents shared a similar view given how much more strongly pro Israeli they have become.

Whether the Biden admin actually wants to stop whats happening at all is I think questionable given the mans personal history but even if he does really what tools are being used at the moment? some vaguely negative statements about events meanwhile the US is sending Israeli billions in arms, is covering for it in the UN and is only throwing out the weakest of sanctions against a minority of west bank settlers, meanwhile were having strong attacks on the US citizens boycotting Israel which seem like they are unconstitutional. That doesnt look like the US can't influence Israel, it looks like its not really interested in doing so, at least in terms of changing its current course.
 
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Re UN resolution politics

The US resolution seems to be more about obtaining political cover than facilitating humanitarian assistance, as it's calling only for a 6 week pause on the bombings in exchange for more food and for access to hostages. Israel should be allowing the food in without the ceasefire, as they are obliged to do, it shouldn't be contingent on hostages. Most of the resolution is substance less virtue signaling about pre-existing obligations made via international law.

Russia and China are then cynically using this as a moment to expose the US hypocrisy by proposing a complete ceasefire to embarrass the US. Everyone knows Israel won't do that. I doubt Russia/China care that much about civilian life given their historic actions against civilians and Muslims.

However, the 6-week pause could save some lives. In rejecting it outright, knowing the consequences, I don't take this as a real principled stance. The half-measure resolution would still reduce harm and loss of life and they forgo it to make a point. By rejecting it, it also takes pressure off of Hamas to release hostages.

None of these countries care about Palestinians, just pawns in an imperial game.
 
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Yes I generally post links to more mainstream sources as well. Yet for all your protests for this being a blog, poor source, etc it still provided the poll and gave you an opportunity to go look at it yourself. I would not call it 'blatant propaganda'. Sure their focus may have been slanted somewhat but that's typical.
The founder of the blog is a Christian Zionist so yeah I'd say its propaganda.
Even a source like Reuters has become less trustworthy over the years. If you have a better source that discusses this poll I am all ears.
Ah so don't trust Reuters but do trust the Christian Zionist blog.

You could've, idk, just post the link directly to the poll instead of a biased third party interpretation? I guess that's too much to ask in the context of the Israel/Palestine conflict though.
I can't say I have read your every post in this thread, but by and large you are noticeably less critical/diligent in how you read and interpret leftist sources.
Do you have an example? Maybe somewhere where I've posted a link to an obviously biased blog operated by someone with an obviously vested interest in one side of the the conflict? The least credible source I've posted is the streamer Destiny who is generally on the Zionist side here and even then I wasn't citing him as an authoritative source.
I phrased my post from the mindset of Hamas. If I were them, and I wanted to reduce Western support for Israel and shift the narrative, releasing the hostages would be an obvious step. Even in this thread we have posters stating that it's why they support continued Israeli military action.

If you are trying to say that Hamas are not rational actors then it really makes no sense to negotiate with them.

While Israel is far from perfect, trying to pretend it is just like Hamas is quite far fetched.

The Israeli far right government is a direct response to the Hamas and the never ending terrorism. If Arab states make peace with Israel, I suspect Israel will revert back to more centrist government.
We could go back and forth in saying this or that government on either side is a response to the violence of the other. And anyway Arab states have been making peace with Israel all the while their government has moved to the right.
 
I try not to post propaganda links and certainly not something like a random Zionist blog, I prefer links to reputable news sources like AP and Reuters.

As for Koya you can call him out for his lack of due diligence if you like, I don't think I'm obligated to call out each and every bad post. I have in fact called hiim out myself for posts he's made I've disagreed with but I don't think I should have to justify calling out your use of blatant propaganda.

Who is we here? Hamas is a rogue organization aligned with pariah states like Syria and Iran, no reason to think the West can have any control over them.

In theory Israel is part of the West and we should be able to exert influence over them but I think we can increasingly see that's not really true. The more I think about it the more I see the idea of Israel as a "Western ally" as a farce. They sell US secrets and weapons to our enemies and pariah states like Myanmar and they routinely violate international law. We're looking at two mad dog going at each other in a junkyard.
Simple math. Give me a magic wand and I have to move either Palestine or Israel to our border. I pick Israel very easily.
 


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Who is we here? Hamas is a rogue organization aligned with pariah states like Syria and Iran, no reason to think the West can have any control over them.

In theory Israel is part of the West and we should be able to exert influence over them but I think we can increasingly see that's not really true. The more I think about it the more I see the idea of Israel as a "Western ally" as a farce. They sell US secrets and weapons to our enemies and pariah states like Myanmar and they routinely violate international law. We're looking at two mad dog going at each other in a junkyard.
Such a stupid moral equivalency, really.

You love blowing smoke screens for Islamic extremism. “A rogue organization”, please man, they represent the predominant ideology of the Palestinian populace. They are the true result of Palestinian democracy.
 

Who wouldn't want a house on the beach? For some on Israel's far-right, desirable beachfront now includes the sands of Gaza.
Just ask Daniella Weiss, 78, the grandmother of Israel's settler movement, who says she already has a list of 500 families ready to move to Gaza immediately.
"I have friends in Tel Aviv," she says, "so they say, 'Don't forget to keep for me a plot near the coast in Gaza,' because it's a beautiful, beautiful coast, beautiful golden sand".
She tells them the plots on the coast are already booked.
Mrs Weiss heads a radical settler organisation called Nachala, or homeland. For decades, she has been kickstarting Jewish settlements in the Israeli-occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem, on Palestinian land captured by Israel in the 1967 Middle East war.
Some in the settler movement have cherished the dream - or pipedream - of returning to Gaza since 2005, when Israel ordered a unilateral pullout, 21 settlements were dismantled and about 9,000 settlers were evacuated by the army. (Reporting from Gaza at the time, I saw many who were literally dragged out.)
Many settlers saw all this as a betrayal by the state, and a strategic mistake.
Opinion polls suggest that most Israelis oppose resettling Gaza, and it is not government policy, but since the Hamas attacks on 7 October it is being talked about out loud - by some of the loudest and most extreme voices in Israel's government.
Mrs Weiss proudly shows me a map of the West Bank with pink dots indicating Jewish settlements. The dots are scattered all over the map, eating away at land where Palestinians hope - or hoped - to build their state.
There are about 700,000 Jewish settlers in these areas now and settler numbers are rising fast.
The vast majority of the international community considers settlements illegal under international law, including the United Nations Security Council. Israel disputes this.
Daniella Weiss does not deny charges of ethnic cleansing
We meet Daniella at her home in the West Bank settlement of Kedumim, where red-roofed houses are spread over hilltops and valleys. She's in constant motion despite having an arm in plaster.
Her vision for the future of Gaza - now home to 2.3 million Palestinians, many of them starving - is that it will be Jewish.
"Gaza Arabs will not stay in the Gaza Strip," she says. "Who will stay? Jews."
She claims that Palestinians want to leave Gaza and that other countries should take them in - although in a lengthy interview, she rarely uses the word "Palestinian".
"The world is wide," she says. "Africa is big. Canada is big. The world will absorb the people of Gaza. How we do it? We encourage it. Palestinians in Gaza, the good ones, will be enabled. I'm not saying forced, I say enabled because they want to go."
There is no evidence that Palestinians want to leave their homeland - although many may now dream of escaping temporarily, to save their lives. For most Palestinians, there is no way out. The borders are tightly controlled by Israel and Egypt, and no foreign countries have offered refuge.
I put it to her that her comments sound like a plan for ethnic cleansing. She does not deny it.
"You can call it ethnic cleansing. I repeat again, the Arabs do not want, normal Arabs do not want to live in Gaza. If you want to call it cleansing, if you want to call it apartheid, you choose your definition. I choose the way to protect the state of Israel. "
A few days later, Daniella Weiss is selling the idea of a return to Gaza over cake and popcorn at a small gathering, hosted by another settler in their living room.
She has a projector, showing a new map of Gaza, complete with settlements, and leaflets entitled "Go back to Gaza".
"People are asking me what the odds are this will happen?" she says.
"What were the odds back then when I came to these dark mountains and made it into this heaven?"
The handful in attendance seem already convinced. "I want to go back immediately," says Sarah Manella. "When they call me, I will go back to Gush Katif [the former Israeli settlement bloc in Gaza]."
What about the people who live there, we ask.
"The area is empty now, "she replies. "Now you don't need to think where to put the settlement, you only need to come back and put a new settlement."
Some illegal settlements have established their own checkpoints
Gaza is far from empty, but much of it has been erased after almost six months of relentless Israeli bombardment.
It is the "greatest open-air graveyard" in the world, in the words of the EU's foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell.
More than 32,000 Palestinians have been killed, according to the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, most of them women and children. The World Health Organization regards the ministry's data as credible.
For some in the Israeli cabinet, the Palestinian territory - now drenched in blood - is ripe for resettlement. That includes Israel's hard-right National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir - a settler himself.
In late January, he made his way through a packed conference hall, slowed by embraces and handshakes. He was among friends - about 1,000 ultranationalists pushing for a return to Gaza at the event entitled Settlement Brings Security.
Mr Ben Gvir, who favours "encouraging emigration", was among a dozen cabinet ministers in attendance.
"It's time to go back home," he said from the stage, to loud applause. "It's time to return to the land of Israel. If we don't want another 7 October, we need to return home and control the land."
In the shade of a sprawling tree, Yehuda Shimon is playing with his two young sons, who are in hammocks, hanging from the branches.
He has raised 10 children here in a settler outpost in the West Bank called Havat Gilad, or Gilad's Farm, near the Palestinian city of Nablus.
All around him there are Palestinian villages, the nearest 500m away. There is no contact between them, he says.
Yehuda Shimon says Gaza must be Jewish
Shimon has lived in Gaza in the past and claims a God-given right to return.
"We must do it. It's part of Israel area," he says. "This is the land that God gave us, and you couldn't go to God and tell him, 'OK you gave me, and I gave to other people.' No. I believe in the end we will go back to Gaza."
I ask what this means for the Palestinians.
"They have 52 other places to go in the world," he says, "52 Muslim countries". He says the new Gaza will be "another Tel Aviv".
Outposts like his are multiplying in the West Bank, along with larger settlements, fragmenting Palestinian territory and stoking tension.
Settler attacks on Palestinians have surged since 7 October according to the UN, which has long condemned settlements as "an obstacle to peace".
And now settler organisations have their eyes on Gaza once again.
Is there a real prospect of settlers reaching the beachfront in Gaza?
A seasoned Israeli journalist told me it won't happen. "Calls to resettle Gaza won't be translated into policy," he said.
Then he added: "Famous last words."

---

The actual truth of Israeli extremists and their ambitions.

Not the heavily sanitized fantasy that is proffered everywhere but Israel, but the actual reality of the situation.

These people don't even pretend they're trying to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
 
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