International Hamas launches surprise attack on Israel; Israel has declared a state of war. Vol. VII

[Possum Jenkins]

DNC pandering is when in response to public pushback, they take an action that misrepresents their response to the pressure as being more substantive than it is. It's not that they have materially changed their position, just modified their rhetoric in public.

"given the scale of suffering in Gaza there must be an immediate ceasefire"
-holds for cheers
"for at least 6 weeks"

that was weeks ago, wasn't immediate, didn't get 6 weeks. This was off the back of a the 'flour massacre' which she was trying to emotively convey concern as justification for the call for the ceasefire. They then follow nearly a month later with a milquetoast, non-committal resolution that was more an 'agreement to agree subject to conditions' resolution that got rejected due to how ineffectual and blatantly misleading it was.

Now we have more of the same, but at least it's something. I'm not necessarily for stopping the military action, especially since the hostage situation remains unclear, but I am definitely for expanding aid delivery to civilians.

That's how responses to public pressure for a massive event like this work. They're gradual, they're slow, sometimes there's even reversals, but if there's enough of this pressure, there will be results. Though American democracy is terribly flawed, it's still a democracy.

The truth is, both parties support Israel but for different reasons and to different degrees. So a full-on condemnation of Israel and an immediate demand to stop the attack is going to be difficult.

 

[SammyPops]

Lol it's a 2 week pause, it's only for remaining period of Ramadan. Weapons wont be banned in the near future. Biden doesnt want that

Bibi just stated this was a change in US policy. So still lol? I am sure so.

 

[BAM]

That's how responses to public pressure for a massive event like this work. They're gradual, they're slow, sometimes there's even reversals, but if there's enough of this pressure, there will be results. Though American democracy is terribly flawed, it's still a democracy.

The truth is, both parties support Israel but for different reasons and to different degrees. So a full-on condemnation of Israel and an immediate demand to stop the attack is going to be difficult.

The only result is political cover for the Democratic presidential ticket, to bide them time. I said earlier, per polling, average Americans aren't following the body count nationally, they don't even know which side has killed more, so all they have to do is being seen as 'doing something' and they get to November.

If people want to actually pressure Biden to change his Israel policy, it's now or never. After November, whoever wins, Trump or Biden, these theatrics no longer matter.

So, if liberals and the left are satisfied with this performative approach, well, Palestine is fucked.

 

[BAM]

Bibi just stated this was a change in US policy. So still lol? I am sure so.

lol at trusting Bibi's public facing comments. Maybe koya was right about him being able to deftly manipulate Biden and other liberals.

edit - found this later in case you think I'm being batshit. Bibi is creating counterpressure on Biden and doing messaging for his base. This is about Rafah.

Netanyahu cancels delegation to U.S. after it abstains from cease-fire vote at U.N.

Netanyahu canceled high-level meetings with the U.S. after it refused to veto a United Nations Security Council resolution.

www.cbsnews.com

---

...

State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said Israel's statement was "surprising and unfortunate."

The U.S. had concerns about the resolution because it did not condemn the terrorist attack, but did not veto it because its call for a cease-fire and the release of hostages is consistent with U.S. policy, Miller said, calling the resolution "non-binding."

White House spokesman John Kirby called the cancelation "disappointing" and said the U.S. was "perplexed by this" because the U.S. abstention "does not represent a shift in our policy."

"The prime minister's office seems to be indicating through public statements that we somehow changed here. We haven't, and we get to decide what our policy is," Kirby said. "It seems like the prime minister's office is choosing to create a perception of daylight here when they don't need to do that."

Kirby said the U.S. still supports Israel and is providing weapons systems and other capabilities for the country to defend itself.

...

"We don't believe that a major ground operation in Rafah is the right course of action, particularly when you have a million and a half people there seeking refuge, and no conceived plan, no verifiable plan to take care of them," Kirby said. "We've been very consistent on that."

Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant is still visiting Washington this week to meet with Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and national security adviser Jake Sullivan, but those meetings are separate from those with the now-canceled delegation, Kirby said.

---

 

[ferrisjso]

Is he actually? this is a very limited resolution and I suspect the abstaining is mostly PR work. You have this statement released shortly afterwards....

Israel using weapons in line with international law, not blocking Gaza aid — US

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

In UN terms abstain typically means "we oppose but we were offered x,y and z to let this resolution pass". Russia did the same thing when the US went after Libya.

 

[DEVILsSON]

Well for one the Al Qassam Brigades are the military wing of Hamas, not a separate group. Probably something you should know if you're going to comment on such things.

Why not cite the recent poll which is more up to date and has over twice the sample size? According to that one Hamas has 34% support compared to 37% who say don't know or none. The head of Hamas, Ismail Haniyyah, would lose a presidential election against Fateh candidate Marwan Barghouti. Not exactly the picture you were painting.

Most Palestinians haven't even seen the Oct 7th videos but they live the reality of the IDF campaign and settler expansionism everyday, can you not see how that would explain those results?

Bush having 90% approval rating after 9/11 was common knowledge I thought. Either way you'd think that one would fact check a claim like that before making it but I guess not.

So your issue is that I consider the most violent part/faction of Hamas as a separate entity which enjoys the highest approval? Interesting take. So sure, Hamas enjoys as much as 89% approval. Seems like that's damaging to your position if anything. Palestinians support them. The more violent they are the most support they enjoy. So how will you claim later on that Hamas don't represent Palestinian people?

I cite it because it was one of the most telling. Even the most recent ones are still quite bad. It seems you take issue that I don't post things most convenient to your position.

It's awfully convenient to claim that Palestinians are unaware of the October 7th war crimes and atrocities. I guess any peace deal should mandate every Palestinian who claims they are unware to sit through hours of October 7 footage so they can't claim they don't know.

I didn't realize GWB was a popular as he was right after 9/11(90%) and after invasion of Iraq(70%). I don't know if most Americans know that he had 90% approval at one point. I remember him having approval in the 60s and then dipping into the 40s eventually.

 

[sangreporsangre]

 

[Blayt7hh]

I can't say I have read your every post in this thread, but by and large you are noticeably less critical/diligent in how you read and interpret leftist sources.

I mean to be fair I think most people tend to call out the other side for this kind of thing and overlook it when they see people posting in support of their side in similar fashion. I definitely call it out on the Palestinian side more

 

[DEVILsSON]

I mean to be fair I think most people tend to call out the other side for this kind of thing and overlook it when they see people posting in support of their side in similar fashion. I definitely call it out on the Palestinian side more

Oh I know. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy since he was saying I am not as 'diligent' as I should be when posting(none of us are as diligent when reading things we mostly agree with and that includes him ). To his credit he's fairly moderate in his opinions and positions here so even when I disagree I can certainly see his side of things. It's also a bit comical for me to read the far more crazy posts from the forum's 'progressives' and socialists.

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

@Islam Imamate

Saudi Arabia to be appointed chair of UN’s gender equality forum amid ongoing assault on women’s rights

Ahead of the expected announcement that Saudi Arabia will be appointed chair of the UN women’s rights forum at the annual meeting of the UN Commission of the Status of Women today, Amnesty International’s Deputy Director for Advocacy, Sherine Tadros, said: “The Commission on the Status of Women...

www.amnesty.org

Saudi Arabia to be appointed chair of UN’s gender equality forum amid ongoing assault on women’s rights​

The UN's a fucking joke.

 

[tastaylvr]

just openly admitting to wanting them all dead and the guy talking about bombing UN buildings because they were helping people

These guys make American slavery look like hippies playing in the grass.

it's kind of crazy that Israel is actually doing what people on this forum accuse Palestinians of doing "if" they had power. Mind blowing stuff. Palestinians get faulted for stuff that they might do and Israel just casually gets to do it with zero repercussions.

We even got mask off crazies just openly posting people getting killed now even though it was supposed to be banned.

The funniest part is the one with the English accent saying that Palestinians should be deported to Europe. That would make everyone happy ey

 

[Chad R. Thundercock]

just openly admitting to wanting them all dead and the guy talking about bombing UN buildings because they were helping people

These guys make American slavery look like hippies playing in the grass.

it's kind of crazy that Israel is actually doing what people on this forum accuse Palestinians of doing "if" they had power. Mind blowing stuff. Palestinians get faulted for stuff that they might do and Israel just casually gets to do it with zero repercussions.

We even got mask off crazies just openly posting people getting killed now even though it was supposed to be banned.

The funniest part is the one with the English accent saying that Palestinians should be deported to Europe. That would make everyone happy ey

If it isn't TaqiyyaLover back with another splendiferously idiotic post.

So we've got idiots from the Neo-Nazi far-right trivializing the Holocaust and idiots from the Islamist far-left trivializing the history of Black slavery in the US to condemn Israel in this thread.

This is hardly surprising to me, given the prevalence of slavery and the lax attitude towards it in the Islamic world:

Here's an interesting post I came across in a subreddit called /r/IslamicHistory

Yeah, it reads like something you'd write with an alt account.

 

[Kohelet]

From Reuters. I hope for the best but the cost in money let alone lives will be hard.

TEL AVIV, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Israelis sharply curtailed spending, travelling and investing at the end of 2023 as Israel's all-out war on Palestinian Hamas militants in Gaza exacted a heavy toll on the economy, data released on Monday showed.
The war had stopped economic growth in its tracks, especially with a massive call-up of reserves and tens of thousands displaced from border towns near Gaza and Lebanon due to constant rocket attacks from Hamas and Hezbollah.


inflation slowly and bumpily moving to its target, as well as the Fed (the Federal Reserve) on pause and then hopefully potentially moving to pivot.




The $500 billion economy contracted an annual 19.4% in the fourth quarter from the prior three months, the Central Bureau of Statistics said in an initial estimate of gross domestic product (GDP) (ILGDPP=ECI), opens new tab that was double the rate expected in a Reuters consensus.
Still, 2023 as a whole ended with positive growth.
"The contraction of the economy in the fourth quarter of 2023 was directly affected by the outbreak of the Iron Swords War on October 7," the statistics bureau said.
For all of 2023, the economy grew 2.0%, compared with 6.5% in 2022 but above an Organisation for Economic

Cooperation and Development (OECD) average of 1.7%. However, per capita GDP slipped 0.1% last year versus an OECD average of 1.2% growth.

you are keeping embarrassing yourself
the truth is that our ecconomy will keep being ok
can you bet on which date your imaginary nonsesnse will happened ?

may I ask what is the meaning of your nick haysus ? (if it has any)

 

[Kohelet]

I love to read Haaretz and Jerusalem post when I can. I would never bother with non Israeli media outlets. Funny thing is when I post their articles some posters refute what they say and act as if these Israeli journalists "dpnt understand Israel " meanwhile as far as I know they are local.

and yet you are still wrong

you also sound very unintelligent, because to say that reading garbage is enough to understand israeli econnomy its completely moronic

 

[Islam Imamate]

That's how responses to public pressure for a massive event like this work. They're gradual, they're slow, sometimes there's even reversals, but if there's enough of this pressure, there will be results. Though American democracy is terribly flawed, it's still a democracy.

The truth is, both parties support Israel but for different reasons and to different degrees. So a full-on condemnation of Israel and an immediate demand to stop the attack is going to be difficult.

I completely agree. Fundamentally Biden is anti-Bibi but not anti-Israel and it seems that progressives want him to be the latter.

So your issue is that I consider the most violent part/faction of Hamas as a separate entity which enjoys the highest approval? Interesting take. So sure, Hamas enjoys as much as 89% approval. Seems like that's damaging to your position if anything. Palestinians support them. The more violent they are the most support they enjoy. So how will you claim later on that Hamas don't represent Palestinian people?

I cite it because it was one of the most telling. Even the most recent ones are still quite bad. It seems you take issue that I don't post things most convenient to your position.

It's awfully convenient to claim that Palestinians are unaware of the October 7th war crimes and atrocities. I guess any peace deal should mandate every Palestinian who claims they are unware to sit through hours of October 7 footage so they can't claim they don't know.

I didn't realize GWB was a popular as he was right after 9/11(90%) and after invasion of Iraq(70%). I don't know if most Americans know that he had 90% approval at one point. I remember him having approval in the 60s and then dipping into the 40s eventually.

It seems that you're annoyed that I pointed out the misleading and/or false stats you're citing. Just because its convenient for your position doesn't mean you should refrain from due diligence.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Oh I know. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy since he was saying I am not as 'diligent' as I should be when posting(none of us are as diligent when reading things we mostly agree with and that includes him ). To his credit he's fairly moderate in his opinions and positions here so even when I disagree I can certainly see his side of things. It's also a bit comical for me to read the far more crazy posts from the forum's 'progressives' and socialists.

If you're going to make the claim then you should back it up. Earlier I asked you for an example and you never provided one.

If anything you proved my point about your lack of due diligence when you posted a false claim about GWB's approval rating. You want to cite polls when they are convenient for your goal of demonizing the Palestinians but then when I cite the same poll showing that the picture is more complicated you want to reach for another one that was done five months ago with half the sample size and less comprehensive questioning.

 

[Bacco]

Tbh regardless of who's right and who's wrong (assuming is possible have such answer), i find kinda bizzarre how people expect israeli civilians should all be against what's going on... some sure are, some of course are not

Bit of history and the fact this happened
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel
And wiki goes light on some of the barbaric shit side (wich sure leave a mark on people's mind) and palestinians celebrations afterwards

Is guarantee a % of Israel population would be on "good, fuck them" no matter how ugly it gets

 

[Ruv]

 

[Scerpi]

@Islam Imamate

Saudi Arabia to be appointed chair of UN’s gender equality forum amid ongoing assault on women’s rights

Ahead of the expected announcement that Saudi Arabia will be appointed chair of the UN women’s rights forum at the annual meeting of the UN Commission of the Status of Women today, Amnesty International’s Deputy Director for Advocacy, Sherine Tadros, said: “The Commission on the Status of Women...

www.amnesty.org

Saudi Arabia to be appointed chair of UN’s gender equality forum amid ongoing assault on women’s rights​

The UN's a fucking joke.

Yes... a complete joke

 

[sangreporsangre]