HBO triple header tonight

[The Can Opener]

Lampley wouldn't shut the hell up about Corrales changing his hair color. Was anyone else annoyed by that? He seemed even more annoying last night than usual.

It was so odd. He seemed legit disappointed by it. Like they were dating and now he was turned off. Even after the stoppage he blamed the hair.

Wesley Snipes demolition man fetish?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It was so odd. He seemed legit disappointed by it. Like they were dating and now he was turned off. Even after the stoppage he blamed the hair.

Wesley Snipes demolition man fetish?

Could be. Either him, or...

 

[The Adder]

Lampley wouldn't shut the hell up about Corrales changing his hair color. Was anyone else annoyed by that? He seemed even more annoying last night than usual.

it's only a matter of time before lampley reaches Foreman levels of dumb commentary.
@ 2:30

 

[Seano]

They do. What does telling the fans who was at center ring for the most time do for anyone? The boxer's gameplan isn't necessarily based around planting his feet in the center of the ring and claiming territory.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

They do. What does telling the fans who was at center ring for the most time do for anyone? The boxer's gameplan isn't necessarily based around planting his feet in the center of the ring and claiming territory.

What does this stat even prove or represent? Does it fall in line with something in the boxing judging criteria, or in line with fan emotions/selling fights?

 

[Seano]

What does this stat even prove or represent? Does it fall in line with something in the boxing judging criteria, or in line with fan emotions/selling fights?

So they can back up their claims of constant robberies with stats that aren't part of the scoring criteria.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

So they can back up their claims of constant robberies with stats that aren't part of the scoring criteria.

can't tell them they're wrong if they fabricate their own criteria

 

[The Can Opener]

They do. What does telling the fans who was at center ring for the most time do for anyone? The boxer's gameplan isn't necessarily based around planting his feet in the center of the ring and claiming territory.

The other new stat is even worse. It tells you how far each fighter traveled during the course of the fight. Last night one guy had gone 1/4th of a mile and the other almost 2 miles and they were trying to say the guy who went 2 miles must have been more gassed or something. The fuck?

 

[Seano]

The other new stat is even worse. It tells you how far each fighter traveled during the course of the fight. Last night one guy had gone 1/4th of a mile and the other almost 2 miles and they were trying to say the guy who went 2 miles must have been more gassed or something. The fuck?

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

They do. What does telling the fans who was at center ring for the most time do for anyone? The boxer's gameplan isn't necessarily based around planting his feet in the center of the ring and claiming territory.

It indicates to the fans, casuals & hardcores, what you'll find discussed in detail and illustrated through various drills in roughly every modern striking-based combat sports instructional book & video published to date (Boxing, MMA, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, et al). Yes, even Boxercise footwork drill instructionals like Andy Wake's. By controlling the center of the ring/cage you're in an optimal position to control the distance/space and, as a result, often the pace of the fight. It's half of the formula for ringcraft and conventionally the initial precursor for ring generalship (a scoring criterion).

As Kellerman astutely pointed out last night, you can also work farther out around the center's perimeter safely. Controlling the center helps a fighter avoid getting trapped against the ropes or stuck in the corner and looks better to the judges since you're not giving up so much ground that it looks bad. Most fighters with good ringcraft immediately start by taking the center and then work to get back there quickly once they find themselves too far outside or in bad spots. In other words, their spatial awareness kicks in based off of their relative positioning and they'll gravitate back towards the center particularly if they're feeling uncomfortable where they were at. You're taught to do this at the gym in sparring provided that your coach or trainer isn't some hack.

For an out-fighter/boxer/counter-puncher type it's intelligent to work from the perimeter using in-and-out movement, lateral movement to circle tightly and pivoting to stay centered. On the flip side, some "slick" boxers are so comfortable wherever the fight goes that they can fight effectively from anywhere in the ring, even in positions conventionally viewed as disadvantageous, and they'll use that to their favor.

That other HBO stat relating to distance traveled cumulatively over the course of a fight is simply a fighter's foot movement (in steps) tracked to estimate their economy of motion/movement. It can radically differ from style to style, ie., a boxer "mover" vs an efficient minimalist requiring little foot movement, and it decreases substantially as you move up through the weight classes. This stat is solely for scientific boxing purists and its core principle is rooted in physical sports & exercise. Less movement means less waste and that's more economical. Neither stat really belongs, particularly the latter, and "centering" (holding the center) as its own entity isn't significant enough to stand on its own merit as a stat.

 

[DeJulez]

I made a thread on a Japan card, that's going to be rebroadcast on ESPN2 in 12 hours delay.

Fuck now nobody can talk about the event there.

Not being rude, but this is a really slippery and confusing slope.

If your talking about the N'Dam fight against Murata, that was live on ESPN2 at 430am pacific time.
I watched it and was the only one for the first few round commenting.

Generally if the fight is overseas, there will be a LIVE thread, that some posters will be in with something that says SPOILER ALERT or something.
And then there will be the primetime HBO showing of the fight later on that most posters will be watching at that time.

 

[Seano]

It indicates to the fans, casuals & hardcores, what you'll find discussed in detail and illustrated through various drills in roughly every modern striking-based combat sports instructional book & video published to date (Boxing, MMA, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, et al). Yes, even Boxercise footwork drill instructionals like Andy Wake's. By controlling the center of the ring/cage you're in an optimal position to control the distance/space and, as a result, often the pace of the fight. It's half of the formula for ringcraft and conventionally the initial precursor for ring generalship (a scoring criterion).

As Kellerman astutely pointed out last night, you can also work farther out around the center's perimeter safely. Controlling the center helps a fighter avoid getting trapped against the ropes or stuck in the corner and looks better to the judges since you're not giving up so much ground that it looks bad. Most fighters with good ringcraft immediately start by taking the center and then work to get back there quickly once they find themselves too far outside or in bad spots. In other words, their spatial awareness kicks in based off of their relative positioning and they'll gravitate back towards the center particularly if they're feeling uncomfortable where they were at. You're taught to do this at the gym in sparring provided that your coach or trainer isn't some hack.

For an out-fighter/boxer/counter-puncher type it's intelligent to work from the perimeter using in-and-out movement, lateral movement to circle tightly and pivoting to stay centered. On the flip side, some "slick" boxers are so comfortable wherever the fight goes that they can fight effectively from anywhere in the ring, even in positions conventionally viewed as disadvantageous, and they'll use that to their favor.

That other HBO stat relating to distance traveled cumulatively over the course of a fight is simply a fighter's foot movement (in steps) tracked to estimate their economy of motion/movement. It can radically differ from style to style, ie., a boxer "mover" vs an efficient minimalist requiring little foot movement, and it decreases substantially as you move up through the weight classes. This stat is solely for scientific boxing purists and its core principle is rooted in physical sports & exercise. Less movement means less waste and that's more economical. Neither stat really belongs, particularly the latter, and "centering" (holding the center) as its own entity isn't significant enough to stand on its own merit as a stat.

It gives the fans a false sense of who is dominating the action. Period. The scoring criteria are specific.

 

[Kovalev's "Man Bag"]

It gives the fans a false sense of who is dominating the action. Period. The scoring criteria are specific.

They don't. Neither stat is going to be used to try and "prove" anything unless you're counting trolls. Punch stats, fan & media scores are mostly what will be used as always when debating very close & controversial fights.

 

[borntoloseNOT]

It gives the fans a false sense of who is dominating the action. Period. The scoring criteria are specific.

We live in the era of casual moron fight fans, Im not sure it's a problem that can be solved anymore, if anything HBO is trying to bring those morons further in and sell those fights, with their criteria they probably brainstormed in some think tank using a bunch of converted WWE to MMA fans who explained to HBO how fighting should really be scored... by REAL MEN.

 

[Seano]

We live in the era of casual moron fight fans, Im not sure it's a problem that can be solved anymore, if anything HBO is trying to bring those morons further in and sell those fights, with their criteria they probably brainstormed in some think tank using a bunch of converted WWE to MMA fans who explained to HBO how fighting should really be scored... by REAL MEN.

Pretty much.

 

[The Can Opener]

HBO would be better served demanding better judges who actually follow the rules of scoring criteria instead of trying to come up with more ways that casuals fans can feel outraged when their fighter doesn't win by pointing at imaginary stats.

Do they not understand that giving people even more stats that the judges have no access to at all won't do anything but frustrate fans even more?

Judges don't get stats or replays of knockdowns/headbutts/lowblows. Every other major sports allows someone to take a look and second guess important moments during the game except boxing where it is actually more important. Get a call wrong in basketball and you have 70 more games to play. Baseball and you have well over 100 more chances. Even football gives you more than a dozen more chances but they ALL have replays to make sure they got it right. Boxing is ruthless. One point in one round can easily change the course of someone's career forever but technology refuses to catch up.

Fuck these new stats. Fix the actual problem.

 

[ironfist05]

I don't really believe stats affect fans as much as people like to think. The fan watches the fight and decides who they thought won. Sure, the stats are there to look at, but most fans just watch the fight.

 

[The Can Opener]

I don't really believe stats affect fans as much as people like to think. The fan watches the fight and decides who they thought won. Sure, the stats are there to look at, but most fans just watch the fight.

Countless people come here and spit out stats to argue about fights for YEARS after they are over. People don't use the stats to decide who won. They use the stats to back up who they wanted to win.

You are right that most fans don't do it but most fans don't go online and discuss boxing and most fans believe whoever the commentators say should have won the fight should have won the fight and most fans DKSAB.

 

[ironfist05]

Countless people come here and spit out stats to argue about fights for YEARS after they are over. People don't use the stats to decide who won. They use the stats to back up who they wanted to win.

You are right that most fans don't do it but most fans don't go online and discuss boxing and most fans believe whoever the commentators say should have won the fight should have won the fight and most fans DKSAB.

the way I see it is that everybody live scores it and if you're looking at a guy who apparently landed only 5 punches one round unleashing a 10 punch combo, you know somethings' up. I think you're right, stats are used after the fact, not during the fight.