Media Herb Dean cheated Imavov out of a finish. Dolizde was never down

[Ahem]

Ref’s job is to enforce the rules as written, not do what fans want them to do.

 

[Ares Black]

Ref’s job is to enforce the rules as written, not do what fans want them to do.

Agreed, Herb Dean should have enforced the rule as written.

 

[Tapatio]

Dildoze was looking for a way out so he can go back to his wife and mistress, Cheyenne buys

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Even if he was down, intent is a key factor. No point should have been taken

Intent is the bigger factor, with injury being the other. When you have both intent and injury, a point deduction is supposed to be automatic. Points may be deducted if you have an intentional foul that doesn't injure (could be 2 points even) or if you have an injury causing foul that was unintentional.

If Herb dictated that the damage or effect was pretty significant, he could have taken it.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Agree it’s a stupid rule, but to play devil’s advocate, how do you determine when it’s load bearing? Who’s to say that Roman wasn’t supporting himself with that hand when he got kicked? He could have been leaning on it. I don’t disagree with the spirit of this thread, but that stupid video doesn’t really prove anything. And the fact that Roman almost got finished in the first has no bearing on this subject.

This is why I've always hated "weight-bearing." That's nowhere near a binary concept. There are an infinite amount of degrees between this

and this

depending on what percent of your weight you've shifted to the point of contact.

Although it would be accurate to call a fighter grounded at one point between those two, because the hand is 'necessary' for them to be up, it's a near impossible distinction for people to use in a universally functional manner.

 

[Cartiac]

But the problem is, it doesn't say that in the rules. If you go to Nevada's rules, or even the very article Weasle cited about Nevada accepting the rules and Bennett mentioning the weight thing, it specifically says "anything other than the soles of the feet touching the ground constitutes a grounded fighter." with zero mention of weight. So they might be using/teaching/pushing a form of the rule that isn't how they wrote it?

Umm, nope, the problem is you are letting stupid Youtubers think for you. Go actually read the rules yourself because that is absolutely not what they say. They specifically do say

"For the purposes of subsections 14 to 16, inclusive, an opponent shall be deemed to be a“grounded opponent” if at least one of the opponent’s hands is weight-bearing on the floor,including, but not limited to, the palm, fingers, or fist, or if one or more of the opponent’s bodyparts, other than a hand or sole of a foot, is touching the floor."

Which very specifically does mention weight.

 

[rjmbrd]

Playing the game is absurd and its screwing up fights, the reality is the UFC needs to work with commissions to get this sorted uniformly.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Umm, nope, the problem is you are letting stupid Youtubers think for you. Go actually read the rules yourself because that is absolutely not what they say. They specifically do say

"For the purposes of subsections 14 to 16, inclusive, an opponent shall be deemed to be a“grounded opponent” if at least one of the opponent’s hands is weight-bearing on the floor,including, but not limited to, the palm, fingers, or fist, or if one or more of the opponent’s bodyparts, other than a hand or sole of a foot, is touching the floor."

Which very specifically does mention weight.

Oh shit. I fully did download a PDF straight from Nevada's site on my phone before posting, but it doesn't have any dates on it. Seems like they amended the rule, but still have the old ones up available for download.

https://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/boxingnvgov/content/faq/MMA-FOULS_JUDGING_CRITERIA_01-13.pdf

(See subsections 14-16 are there, but without that addition)

Good catch, but then why the fuck is this still up on their website?

*edit* Specifically adopted 9/20/22. So that still means Bennett was wrong when said that back in 2018. This ship is being SO well captained..

 

[Cartiac]

Oh shit. I fully did download a PDF straight from Nevada's site on my phone before posting, but it doesn't have any dates on it. Seems like they amended the rule, but still have the old ones up available for download.

https://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/boxingnvgov/content/faq/MMA-FOULS_JUDGING_CRITERIA_01-13.pdf

(See subsections 14-16 are there, but without that addition)

Good catch, but then why the fuck is this still up on their website?

You can't just blindly trust google my friend. Current rules on their website are https://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles...ions/2022-09-20-NRUC-OFFICIAL-FINAL DRAFT.pdf.

 

[metal7555]

Stupid rules lead to stupid decisions.

And yet every week here we are, talking about the same stupid shit.

Yup.

I say stop making the ref interfere in the whole "1 hand down" fuckin minigame.

Both fighters got to that spot, why should 1 hand draggin' on the ground get you anything as a reward? lol

The reward for having 1 hand down, thinking you gonna be safe, should in fact BE REWARDED with a fuckin swift knee/kick to the face to let ya know ya fucked up.... just legalize it, keep the refs out of letting fighters play this stupid "WEEKLY" game/coontroversy.

Knee or elbow down, otherwise you ain't "down" -- and end this fuckin nonsense.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

You can't just blindly trust google my friend. Current rules on their website are https://boxing.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/boxingnvgov/content/faq/sections/2022-09-20-NRUC-OFFICIAL-FINAL DRAFT.pdf.

"Nevada Athletic Commission grounded" and the first results were a PDF straight from the NV commission website. Color me fucked, Sherbro, I thought I had it.

Had I been on the computer, I probably would have done more due diligence, but I hate fact finding on a phone. Thanks for the correction

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

The ref is who is to say, that is his job and trusted with that authority. This case was extremely clear as he had all fingers and thumb bent against the mat clearly applying some force.

All MMA refs will be mandated to review their training by watching the scene from Invincible 500 times

 

[Neck&Neck]

No Herb Dean Slide
No Herb Dean Pride

 

[Phisher]

Weasle was low key accusing Herb Dean of having money on Dolitze.

He works around the US and internationally and has to enforce multiple different rulesets about what constitutes a downed opponent.

Mistakes are bound to happen.

States never should've started to change the rule on their own before getting the ABC to do it universally.

 

[Cartiac]

All MMA refs will be mandated to review their training by watching the scene from Invincible 500 times

Haha, that is an incredibly relevant clip or not depending on which commission. The ABC just a few days ago updated their recommended rules to eliminate this entire confusion so hopefully commissions will quickly adopt it but that likely will not happen. The new language states to be grounded something other than your hands and feet must be touching the mat.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Haha, that is an incredibly relevant clip or not depending on which commission. The ABC just a few days ago updated their recommended rules to eliminate this entire confusion so hopefully commissions will quickly adopt it but that likely will not happen. The new language states to be grounded something other than your hands and feet must be touching the mat.

The Andy Foster California thing, yeah? Hopefully it gets passed. I mean, yeah this probably should logically be considered grounded

but when finding language for enforcing rules, how can it be worded without wide subjectivity

 

[Pechan]

Yep, said it on the pbp, it wasn't even his hands just his fingers, Herb is a complete moron and Chris Curtis is a clown.

 

[Ahem]

Agreed, Herb Dean should have enforced the rule as written.

Valid point, my memory failed. Two hands, not one.

 

[Ares Black]

Valid point, my memory failed. Two hands, not one.

To be fair it varies from state to state.

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Herb Dean screwing up I'm shocked, shocked I say.

This Weasle seems biased tho complaining that should have been stopped in r1. The fact dolidze fought four more rounds and won two shows how not close to being out he was.