Herb Dean Failed His Job Tonight

[chs140]

I blame the corner. Kattar was throwing back and trying to win til the bitter end, his corner had NO business sending him out for round 5

This.
It wasn't the refs fault. The kid was fighting back and defending himself.
Its on the corner.
How the mods and staff members here don't get this is stupid.
The op said there was a number of strikes that's too much.
I swear most people here don't understand the sport

 

[chs140]

holy shit people actually disagree? Alright, let’s throw a poll up and y’all can see you’re in a small minority.

Yeah. You're being out voted two to one.
How's that small minority?

 

[Azure]

Bit dramatic, it was a bad beating, but it's not the refs job to stop the fight just because one guy is losing, he was defending himself and fighting back the entire time.

If they stopped it in the 4th I wouldn't have any complaint, but how is Herb to blame for anything, yeah the guy is busted up and losing, but he's fighting back and defending hinself, you can't just give him an L because you feel sorry for him, I don't think that's Herb's job at all

I agree...Herb could have stopped a couple of times and people would have bitched about an early stoppage... I think the bigger fault lies with his corner not stopping it after the 4th. I also think Max took his foot off the gas a bit in the 5th.

 

[chiefwiggum]

Oh man. Kataar did everything you’re supposed to do. And even stung max a few times even in the fifth.

he defended himself. He fought back. That’s what you are asked to do and he had his whereabouts to do that.

this was the culmination of Kattars career. His corner knows him better than us.

you can’t throw the towel on someone who is fighting back the whole time despite getting beat up. He still had his moments.

if a guy like noguiera or gatti had those standards they would have lost tons of fights.

 

[Roljo]

I’m not going to mix my words here. I understand this is a serious topic, but I feel it’s warranted after the egregious display of misjudgment shown by Herb Dean tonight.

Arguably the fight should have been stopped in the third. However, there is no argument for rounds 4 and 5. It should have been over LONG before then. It was irresponsible, and the ref was reckless and careless. His number one responsibility is FIGHTER SAFETY. Tonight, Herb Dean failed that responsibility. 450 significant strikes is about 250 too many for a human being to absorb.

I think Herb got marching orders from up top, or felt that because it was a big debut fight on ABC that he should let it go “for the ratings”. Or “it could be fight of the year”. Etc etc...

I think Kattars corner failed him tonight as well, the difference is they are also trying to win a fight. They have multiple duties. The ref has one job. Protect the fighters.

I just have a difficult time understanding this after we started hearing this week about Spencer Fishers current situation. The line between being a “warrior” and being “reckless” has been blurred, and people like Herb Dean need to step up and do their job, and do it the right fucking way before someone gets seriously hurt. Just because MMA is legal in all states, and it’s on a major network does not mean we can relax our rules we’ve established.

I enjoyed the fight, but IMO it was a black mark on the sport for their failure to protect their fighters. No credit taken away from Max. He was dominant and brilliant.

Came here to make this thread. Kattar is a good fighter, very durable and won't ever quit. Well done Herb, taking off years of his prime and his life probably.

 

[georgekillian]

To the 146:

To the 239: Bravo for still retaining your balls. At times, I actually yelled at DC through the TV to shut the fuck up, and I was commanding Herb Dean to move the fuck away from Holloway and Kattar. We all do realize/remember that this is the Ultimate Fighting Championship, right? These guys are warriors. If they wanted to quit, they'd quit. If their corner wanted them to quit, they'd throw in the towel. If they weren't intelligently defending themselves, the ref would step in. None of these scenarios applied to last night. So how about we stop helicopter parenting grown ass adults who have chosen to devote their lives to being more hardcore than any of us lucky viewers will ever be able to fathom and either shut the fuck up and watch or shut the fuck up and change the channel?

The pussification of American sports has reached really unfortunate heights if we're now at the point where we Triple H gif our way through epic throwdowns like this instead of jumping for joy and thanking the Just Bleed God for allowing us to witness such extraordinary badassery. (For comparison, watch the excellent hockey documentary Ice Guardians and watch the legendary enforcers all down to a man answer instantly the question "If you could go back would you do it again?" with an emphatic Stone Cold-style "Hell yeah!") So many epic fights wouldn't be epic if the fighters weren't given the chance to show their mettle, and so many fighters wouldn't be the legends that they are if they weren't given the chance to showcase their incredible heart and toughness.

Long story short: Let 'em bang, bro.

Thank God for this, this thread is legit embarrassing, can't believe a mod made it.

 

[ens189]

i haven’t watched the fight yet but even though you’re an undefeated mma fighter, you’re wrong about intelligently defending yourself. Swinging punches isn’t defending yourself, blocking and slipping them is. I had a kid lose a KOTC title fight because he was actively hunting for ankle locks while getting punched and elbowed in the face. The ref waved it off Because after a certain number of unanswered strikes that’s all she wrote.

It’s a karate forum. If he’s throwing back and landing then you could make the argument to continue the fight

As an undefeated MMA fighter I can speak intelligently on this. Calvin was firing back and landing even if it was at a 2-10 rate compared to Max. Again I'm speaking as an undefeated MMA fighter, not someone who was 30-22'd by a JV Middle School Wrestling Coach.

 

[Smu]

The only who failed is Kataar! He was free to quit this fight anytime.

 

[DoctorTaco]

As an undefeated MMA fighter I can speak intelligently on this. Calvin was firing back and landing even if it was at a 2-10 rate compared to Max. Again I'm speaking as an undefeated MMA fighter, not someone who was 30-22'd by a JV Middle School Wrestling Coach.

after watching it I would of called it during the 4th.

I don’t want Kattar to end up intellectually ravaged to a point where he’s crashing his government issued ATV while working security in an El Paso wall-mart. His only refuge at night found in a half rack of Hershey chocolate flavored yuengling and a Scratched copy of FIFA 97’

 

[Dutch1]

Herb did a great job. His team should have thrown in the towel during the 4th round.

 

[SakurabasEar]

Tbh Herb Dean has been in the middle of these discussions increasingly. Its alarming, especially when he supposedly is one of the "best" refs

 

[Jose Beehive]

Tbh Herb Dean has been in the middle of these discussions increasingly. Its alarming, especially when he supposedly is one of the "best" refs

Wonder if there's anything in the fact he often referee's the main events especially on big cards, so has many more critical eyes on him.

 

[genecop]

Tbh Herb Dean has been in the middle of these discussions increasingly. Its alarming, especially when he supposedly is one of the "best" refs

What’s the alarming piece? Is it alarming because as the best he’s not that good, or is it alarming that so many fans don’t understand certain aspects of the sport?

 

[Bullitt68]

I don’t want Kattar to end up intellectually ravaged to a point where he’s crashing his government issued ATV while working security in an El Paso wall-mart. His only refuge at night found in a half rack of Hershey chocolate flavored yuengling and a Scratched copy of FIFA 97’

Referees don't - and never should - stop fights because they don't want fighters to crash their government issued ATVs while working security. Referees stop fights - and should stop fights - because fighters aren't intelligently defending themselves. Period. Anything beyond that isn't - and shouldn't be - within the purview of refereeing. Referees aren't - and shouldn't be - in the business of deciding what would be best for fighters 40 years down the road, while fans aren't - and shouldn't be - in the business of deciding how grown ass adults who have freely chosen to devote their lives to athletics should conduct themselves in and/or out of competition.

 

[Willy Knuckles]

Referees don't - and never should - stop fights because they don't want fighters to crash their government issued ATVs while working security. Referees stop fights - and should stop fights - because fighters aren't intelligently defending themselves. Period. Anything beyond that isn't - and shouldn't be - within the purview of refereeing. Referees aren't - and shouldn't be - in the business of deciding what would be best for fighters 40 years down the road, while fans aren't - and shouldn't be - in the business of deciding how grown ass adults who have freely chosen to devote their lives to athletics should conduct themselves in and/or out of competition.

How do you think he was intelligently defending himself though? That's the question. He was hit almost 450 times by hard strikes, and wobbled multiple times. Even Dana "part of the gig" white said it should have been stopped and actually went to Kattar's corner to voice his opinion on it mid fight. Only MMA fans argue stupid shit like this. It should have been stopped

 

[Thrawn33]

Some of ya'll need JUST BLEED God.

All kidding aside, good non-stoppage, I'll be the first to justify a stoppage when a fighter knocked stupid, and aside from some wobbles, I never felt Kattar was out on his feet.

 

[ignorant MMA fan]

I think Kattar's corner was more responsible for unnecessary punishment. Kattar was protecting himself, returning fire and was never just cowering. IMO, Dean wasn't required to step in. That was a situation where the corner should protect the fighter from himself, not the ref.

 

[Matt Conley]

How do you think he was intelligently defending himself though? That's the question. He was hit almost 450 times by hard strikes, and wobbled multiple times. Even Dana "part of the gig" white said it should have been stopped and actually went to Kattar's corner to voice his opinion on it mid fight. Only MMA fans argue stupid shit like this. It should have been stopped

Dude, these fighters go into the battle knowing what's up. Kattar was still a killer even in the 4th and 5th. He was still throwing bombs back. There was a few times where I thought he might actually pull it off and land a big punch. Did he get his ass kicked, yes.....
Okay, here's an different example, should the ref have stopped the fight between rory mac and Nate Diaz just because rory was rag dolling Nate with his wrestling? He clearly wasn't intelligently defending himself from a wrestling stand point.

It's also on his corner to deal with this situation. I think you may have a misunderstanding of the refs roll in a fight. Hockey is my favourite sport and I swear it's people like you(dont know you at all) that have called for a decrease in fighting and are taking away great aspects of it.

This is the fight game, kattar isn't a child and knows what hes doing along with his corner. Long story short, if you can't handle the violence shut the TV off...

 

[BEATDOWNS]

lol at OP getting shut down...

OP is a can..

 

[SakurabasEar]

What’s the alarming piece? Is it alarming because as the best he’s not that good, or is it alarming that so many fans don’t understand certain aspects of the sport?

Well alarming that the "best" (using that ironically) ufc ref can still get this so wrong so often.

Regardless if kattar was defending himself and returning later off and on, there were several times where he was just standing there absorbing blows. In boxing this would have been called in the 3rd.

To top that off, herb has been slow to stop fights many times in the past couple years, and i think moving forward it's a going to lead to somebody getting serious brain damege.