How are so many amazing grapplers unable to take the fight to the ground?

DeathStroke said:
Because a lot of BJJ guys either think they don't need extra wrestling training, or underestimate how difficult it is to take people down who know how to wrestle.

BJJ is not wrestling and wrestling is not BJJ. People need both.
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Exactly. They think that just because they can submit a wrestle-boxer in BJJ class, that they can beat that guy in an MMA fight.

Then they realize it's tough to take someone down who knows how to sprawl & frame, all while getting punched in the face.
 
SammyG420 said:
Whitaker, Cyborg? An he's talking about guys that started with jiu jitsu
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Cyborg's base is Muay Thai and BJJ. She's competed at ADCC. Whittaker started in TMAs but he's been competing in amateur wrestling for several years.

Today everyone trains everything. It's silly to do anything else. One dimensional fighters dont usually last long.
 
Also it's typically easier to train takedown defense than to train takedowns.

Considering both BJJ and wrestling based fighters can dominate on the ground, pretty much every MMA fighter drills TDD constantly. This means BJJ guys with no wrestling experience are constantly facing high level TDD, so they're behind the 8-ball so to speak. Even above average wrestlers struggle to secure takedowns now.
 
Maia has some of the best takedowns in MMA aside from elite lifelong collegiate/Olympic wrestlers, and Khabib/GSP.
 
blaseblah said:
Cyborg's base is Muay Thai and BJJ. She's competed at ADCC. Whittaker started in TMAs but he's been competing in amateur wrestling for several years.

Today everyone trains everything. It's silly to do anything else. One dimensional fighters dont usually last long.
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Went to edit post after I forgot Cyborg did start with jiu jitsu but didn't know that about Whitaker.

Yes I agree no 1 dimensional fighter will be elite anymore but I think ts is trying to say that a fighter who started with jiu jitsu and its still there main strength don't seem to be able to get it to the ground in championship fights
 
SammyG420 said:
Went to edit post after I forgot Cyborg did start with jiu jitsu but didn't know that about Whitaker.

Yes I agree no 1 dimensional fighter will be elite anymore but I think ts is trying to say that a fighter who started with jiu jitsu and its still there main strength don't seem to be able to get it to the ground in championship fights
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Well how do you define "main strength"? TS seems to think Ortega is a BJJ guy but he got the title shot by KOing Edgar.
 
Great BJJ guys are rarely great wrestlers too

It's why guys like Khabib who are great on the ground and at getting it to the ground do so well in the UFC
 
superpunch said:
You'd think that someone great on the ground would make it a priority to be great at getting the fight to the ground. But that's just not the case. Ortega, Maia, etc. Why is this weakness so common?

This is the kind of thing that should only happen in TMAs. BJJ is TMAing itself with this kind of refusal to adapt. It's becoming "old".
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i was talking to my buddy who trains about this

he says that lots of the time in bjj class they start on their knees. never did see an mma fight that started like that
 
So great grapplers only get negated by other great grapplers. Holloway has developed great TDD. It’s not complicated.
 
You know he was 14-0 so I think it’s worked pretty well for him
 
superpunch said:
You'd think that someone great on the ground would make it a priority to be great at getting the fight to the ground. But that's just not the case. Ortega, Maia, etc. Why is this weakness so common?

This is the kind of thing that should only happen in TMAs. BJJ is TMAing itself with this kind of refusal to adapt. It's becoming "old".
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Agreed.
He should have gone to a university...D-1 wrestling team and put in work.
His TDs were weak as fuck. His BJJ is amazing tho..but the fight has to go to the ground.
 
Verace said:
Ortega even tried to pull guard at one point and even that shit didn't work
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uh...in the later rounds..when both fighters were already bloody and sweating, negating grip.
Thats why the shit didnt work lol..comeon man!
 
blaseblah said:
You realize Max is really good on the ground too right? He's the champ for a reason.
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That wasnt the point.
Id put my chips on Ortega any day in a BJJ match btw.
But Ortegas takedowns were pretty weak. Go look at GSP, TWOODs takedowns and make note of the VAST difference.
 
because they aren't world class wrestlers. And even world class wrestlers sometimes have a hard time to take a fight to the ground against MMA fighters with great TDD.
 
The answer to the question is because alot of BJJ'ers are not wrestlers and dont focus enough on wrestling. The better wrestler has always the first advantage. He decides where the fight takes place.

Holloway's wrestling is better than Ortegas. BJJ is useless if you cant take the fight to the ground
 
Th3PlainTruth** said:
That wasnt the point.
Id put my chips on Ortega any day in a BJJ match btw.
But Ortegas takedowns were pretty weak. Go look at GSP, TWOODs takedowns and make note of the VAST difference.
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Which one of Ortega's fights convinced you he's an elite wrestler or that takedowns are a significant part of his offense?

He KO'd Edgar standing, didn't take Cub down, didn't take Moicano down, didn't take Guida down. Have you guys actually watched him fight? He prefers to strike, he uses his BJJ to take advantage of openings.
 
Great question.
It takes a lifetime to achieve world class level anything. I can only hypothesize that you are either world class at wrestling and takedowns or at BJJ.

If it’s one or the other, the fight will be a stalemate
 
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