How come Max is still in his prime but people say that Aldo was past prime when he fought Volk?

[TRVITMVNZ]

Holloway has a Mt Rushmore MMA chin

 

[Islam Imamate]

He was already on the decline as an athlete. Anyone with eyes could see it from his WEC years. He also had a terrible back injury in a bike accident, and foot problems.

After losing to Holloway the 2nd time he would go 5-4 and definitively beat Stephens, Moicano, Vera, Munhoz, and Font. All those guys were or still are staples of their division and Aldo made it look easy. Even in some of his losses he put in great performances like when he stopped all of Merab's takedown attempts and had that war with Yan for the belt. He clearly had a lot left in the tank after that.

 

[StonedLemur]

I mean, When Aldo fought Volk he wasn't even 33 years old.
Holloway is now just 4 months younger than Aldo was when Volk dominated him in Brazil.
Look at what he did to the most violent LW of all time.

Aldo has been fighting at the highest level (including WEC) since 2008 while Max was fighting at the highest level since 2012.
That means Aldo was 11 yeas in when he fought Volk and Max was 12 years in when he KOed Gaethje.

Not to mention, that Aldo looked very good after the Volk loss and he was actually improving all the way up to the Merab loss.
His boxing was better than ever, he was setting personal best records, his TDD was as good as ever, he was even bringing back leg kicks to some extent.

Even if we count their entire careers(amateur included) Max was fighting since 2006 while Aldo was fighting since 2004.

In my opinion prime version of fighters like Max, Volk and Petr would beat any version of Aldo simply because they have much better gas tanks and chins.

So, If he really wasn't in his physical prime when he fought Volk then when was he, from which fight to which?

Everyone is different.
You can't say prime or no prime on age alone.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Aldo probably was either in or near his prime when he fought Max.

I say this cause the versions who fought Mendes and Edgar in rematches were terrific, which were just before Max.

Aldo also looked great in the fights after Max.

To your point, Aldo lost to Max the 2nd time on the 2nd of December 2017 and four years later on December 4th 2021 he put on a masterclass against Rob Font over five rounds in a main event. He had a bunch of great performances after losing to Max, his wins were decisive and his losses competitive.

 

[StonedLemur]

Most thought Max was out of his Prime too, in fact that fight with Gaethje was a bit of a career resurgence.

Also Aldo was out of his prime lol very little to argue there

How was it a resurgence if Max beat everyone in his division except Volk and Conor ( a million years ago).?

 

[Substance Abuse]

After losing to Holloway the 2nd time he would go 5-4 and definitively beat Stephens, Moicano, Vera, Munhoz, and Font. All those guys were or still are staples of their division and Aldo make it look easy. Even in some of his losses he put in great performances like when he stopped all of Merab's takedown attempts and had that war with Yan for the belt. He clearly had a lot left in the tank after that.

Most definitely. The fact that he basically earned a title shot at Bantamweight but was overlook for TJ speaks to it. Aldo's technical ability was top tier.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Most definitely. The fact that he basically earned a title shot at Bantamweight but was overlook for TJ speaks to it.

I'll never get over that and the fact that we didn't get to see Aldo vs Cruz.

 

[Substance Abuse]

I'll never get over that and the fact that we didn't get to see Aldo vs Cruz.

Me either. We were robbed of that so Chito could build himself up only to get trounced by Sandhagen and O'Malley.

 

[GluttonforPunishment]

Everyone's primes are the same. Everyone accumulates the same injuries. Everyone trains the same. Max and Jose both got in motorcycle accidents. Max and Jose both kept sparring.

However, to delve further into it, most fighters begin to experience an athletic, reactionary and ability to absorb damage decline about ten to twelve years in. GSP is considered one of the greats and his career was winding down in '13 after almost twelve years of fighting, prompting him to retire. Condit's descent began in '14 after starting in '02 when he got injured against Woodley. Aldo was a few months shy of his twelfth year in MMA at 29 when he began to lose. Fedor started taking losses almost eleven years in. Edgar wasn't the same thirteen years in. Big Nog eleven years. Liddell hit the wall around that time.

Yes, there are outliers like Mighty Mouse, Jon Jones (wink, wink) Anderson Silva (wink, wink), and apparently Max (who stopped sparring to spare his health and try to stave off decline), but for the most part, the majority of top fighters experience it after or around this time frame and begin to taste defeat more often as reflexes change; wear takes it toll; chins fade; injuries linger; weight cuts get harder; there's more tape available on you.

To hammer home my point: Volkanovski lost to Ilia three months shy of his twelfth year as a mixed martial artist. He's still a great fighter, but at 35, and this far into his career, he'll likely never be the same.

An idiot OP deserves this response. Apparently everyone is biologically the same and lives the same lifestyle. Smh

 

[MEAN357]

How was it a resurgence if Max beat everyone in his division except Volk and Conor ( a million years ago).?

I'm the biggest Max fan you'll ever see, been rocking with him since his UFC debut but even I couldn't miss that he appeared to be slowing down. Some of his recent performances were a little flat and he just went 0-3 vs the champ, been in a dozen wars, etc.

It really seemed like time age and mileage was catching up to him and being 0-3 vs the champ left him with little options with the logjam at LW being his only other option.

Not to mention moving up in weight in the later stages of his career given his tendency to just stand and bang instead of use all of the technical gifts that got him to the pinnacle seemed like a bad recipe for career longevity.

The absolutely spectacular career defining win against a killer like Gaethje reminded everybody just what a fuckin beast Max is and he went from a former champ locked out of title contention to a hot commodity in two divisions.

 

[StonedLemur]

I'm the biggest Max fan you'll ever see, been rocking with him since his UFC debut but even I couldn't miss that he appeared to be slowing down. Some of his recent performances were a little flat and he just went 0-3 vs the champ, been in a dozen wars, etc.

It really seemed like time age and mileage was catching up to him and being 0-3 vs the champ left him with little options with the logjam at LW being his only other option.

Not to mention moving up in weight in the later stages of his career given his tendency to just stand and bang instead of use all of the technical gifts that got him to the pinnacle seemed like a bad recipe for career longevity.

I've also been down with Max from the beginning, but I attributed his performances to lack of interest in the opponent.

He knew he could beat all of those guys, and I think that lead to a stagnant feeling within him.

He looked as fast as ever the other night, and he had damn good defense.
I think the Gaethje fight gave him something to rise up for.
He definitely did that in spades sir.

 

[MEAN357]

To your point, Aldo lost to Max the 2nd time on the 2nd of December 2017 and four years later on December 4th 2021 he put on a masterclass against Rob Font over five rounds in a main event. He had a bunch of great performances after losing to Max, his wins were decisive and his losses competitive.

Imo more of a testament to his technical brilliance than his athletic prime. Bernard Hopkins won a belt at like 50, doesn't mean he was in his prime, he was just a fuckin chess master.

Aldo is one of the most well rounded and technically sound fighters in the sport. He's a problem for anyone ever lol

 

[MEAN357]

I've also been down with Max from the beginning, but I attributed his performances to lack of interest in the opponent.

He knew he could beat all of those guys, and I think that lead to a stagnant feeling within him.

He looked as fast as ever the other night, and he had damn good defense.
I think the Gaethje fight gave him something to rise up for.
He definitely did that in spades sir.

You might be spot on with that assessment

 

[StonedLemur]

You might be spot on with that assessment

If I throw enough shit, something will stick sir lol.

That's the way I felt about it anyway, but
I can also see why you would see it the way you did to be fair.

 

[Gamer007]

The issue is fans correlate win/loss records to an actual fighters' individual performance or lack thereof, when it's more nuanced and deeper than that.


Just because Aldo could still beat top ten guys, doesn't mean he was anywhere close to his peak when he was fighting Marlon, Yan, Stephens, etc.

Just because Jon Jones is still wrecking shop, doesn't mean he didn't exit his prime like 5 years ago, he clearly peaked somewhere in that 2014-2017 period.

Just because Anderson Silva was still champion at age 38, doesn't mean he wasn't YEARS past his best.


Jim miller is a good example, he went into the Bobby green fight winning 5 of his last 6, which is the 2nd most impressive run of his UFC career strictly on a win/loss basis. But no real fan of the sport is going to sit here and tell you that Jim was in his prime still, let alone his peak. Things like quality of competition obviously play a huge factor.

 

[Taric]

The issue is fans correlate win/loss records to an actual fighters' individual performance or lack thereof, when it's more nuanced and deeper than that.


Just because Aldo could still beat top ten guys, doesn't mean he was anywhere close to his peak when he was fighting Marlon, Yan, Stephens, etc.

Just because Jon Jones is still wrecking shop, doesn't mean he didn't exit his prime like 5 years ago, he clearly peaked somewhere in that 2014-2017 period.

Just because Anderson Silva was still champion at age 38, doesn't mean he wasn't YEARS past his best.


Jim miller is a good example, he went into the Bobby green fight winning 5 of his last 6, which is the 2nd most impressive run of his UFC career strictly on a win/loss basis. But no real fan of the sport is going to sit here and tell you that Jim was in his prime still, let alone his peak. Things like quality of competition obviously play a huge factor.

This is the crux of the issue.

 

[Dr Fong]

The issue is fans correlate win/loss records to an actual fighters' individual performance or lack thereof, when it's more nuanced and deeper than that.


Just because Aldo could still beat top ten guys, doesn't mean he was anywhere close to his peak when he was fighting Marlon, Yan, Stephens, etc.

Just because Jon Jones is still wrecking shop, doesn't mean he didn't exit his prime like 5 years ago, he clearly peaked somewhere in that 2014-2017 period.

Just because Anderson Silva was still champion at age 38, doesn't mean he wasn't YEARS past his best.


Jim miller is a good example, he went into the Bobby green fight winning 5 of his last 6, which is the 2nd most impressive run of his UFC career strictly on a win/loss basis. But no real fan of the sport is going to sit here and tell you that Jim was in his prime still, let alone his peak. Things like quality of competition obviously play a huge factor.

And the other nuance is that you have guys like Aldo who evolve technically, even when their physical attributes degrade.

The young, leg-smashing Aldo didn't have all the elements to his game that the old Aldo developed.

Some guys fall off a cliff out of nowhere. Some guys start rolling downhill slowly.

Aldo was not in his absolute prime vs Volk but was also far from cooked. To pretend he was some sort of shot fighter you have to completely ignore that he was still a very credible fighter afterwards.

 

[doggo]

Aldo won a lot of fights but the competition wasn't at an all time best, then the losses really urt him as they were pretty bad, Conor KO and brutal beatdowns by max.

However his longevity is quite admirable as he is still able to keep the mid tier division in check whilst probably still losing to the champs.

 

[djacobox372]

Max has less miles, is younger, and has a less fast-twitch style.

Why is this so hard for TS to understand?

 

[acannxr]

That means Aldo was 11 yeas in when he fought Volk and Max was 12 years in when he KOed Gaethje.

In addition to what @Substance Abuse said, you're attempting (and failing) at making several false equivalencies:

-Arguing that because Holloway fought Poirier on short notice in his 5th pro fight therefore means that Holloway's subsequent competition were consistently high level in the same way that Aldo's competition was (due to the latter being the CHAMPION) is a laughably absurd manipulation of data. Aldo past his prime after the Zombie fight/motorcycle accident, which was his 10th year and Holloway had lost to Volk twice by his 10th year; but because both Aldo and Holloway are all-time greats they were/are able to remain competitive even though they're not at their peak anymore.

-You're also operating under the false premise that a prime Volk who became a top three all-time Featherweight is equivalent to a downsliding Gaethje who is in his 13th year of MMA at 35 years old and isn't even in the top ten for all-time Lightweights.