How Dems take back the supreme Court post Trump. Court packing, and FDR.

[Lead]

You have to know that if I could light a match, and set our 3 branches on fire, I would.

Not to get rid of them, but to reform them.

I actually think Trump's election was the American public collectively lighting that match.

Reform comes through the people so you are correct to a degree with the Trump thing, though I don't agree with the direction. I think you undervalue what we have in place if you would be so quick to burn it all down. People like us get really narrow sighted cause we are into politics and sometimes forget how life for the average American is pretty good in global terms. I want to improve it still but I don't want to risk everything we've already built on to do it.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Bernie made a million dollars last year and this year, he likes donor cash to

Not donor cash. He was worth 700k before he wrote a book, allot of people actually bought.

Don't confuse this with many political book deals, where the publisher pays some politician millions to write a book, and the sales don't matter.

Bernie is a millionaire based on a average royalties deal that any bookwriter would get. Allot of people just bought his book.

I have said this to you this before.

 

[second sight]

Not donor cash. He was worth 700k before he wrote a book, allot of people actually bought.

Don't confuse this with many political book deals, where the publisher pays some politician millions to write a book, and the sales don't matter.

Bernie is a millionaire based on a average royalties deal that any bookwriter would get. Allot of people just bought his book.

I have said this to you this before.

We’ve never talked about this

 

[second sight]

Not donor cash. He was worth 700k before he wrote a book, allot of people actually bought.

Don't confuse this with many political book deals, where the publisher pays some politician millions to write a book, and the sales don't matter.

Bernie is a millionaire based on a average royalties deal that any bookwriter would get. Allot of people just bought his book.

I have said this to you this before.

Ok he got 800k as an advance for his last book
60k for another advance

6k and 2.5k or a previous books

175k for a salary



Not exactly the bullshit obama was paid for nothing but it’s the same MO

 

[VivaRevolution]

Reform comes through the people so you are correct to a degree with the Trump thing, though I don't agree with the direction. I think you undervalue what we have in place if you would be so quick to burn it all down. People like us get really narrow sighted cause we are into politics and sometimes forget how life for the average American is pretty good in global terms. I want to improve it still but I don't want to risk everything we've already built on to do it.

I think collapse is inevitable though.

I get your point, I really do. Easy to call for revolution when you have never really starved, never really been thirsty, never really seen dead women and children in the streets.

I honestly think we are headed their regardless, in one form or another.

To me it is like someone preaching through time to someone in 1929, saying be thankful for what you have, and that you aren't starving, and there is not war.

That is temporary.

The war and starvation are coming. I'm not going to whistle Dixie while I watch it barreling down on us.

 

[VivaRevolution]

To some degree. Same as taxing firearms and ammunition is an infringement. Though hardly to the degree that prohibiting certain firearms is. Having a little less money to get your message out (due to an unrelated necessity of government) isn't in the same ballpark as being prohibited from spending any of your money on it at all.

I'm all for adding an Amendment to address campaign spending and the sources of donations. For example, out of state spending for local measures is something I'd prohibit.

Let's be clear here. Congress never banned political spending. They passed limits on it.

That is what the supreme Court struck down.

I might be more sympathetic to your argument if congress had ever attempted an outright ban, without a constitutional amendment.

Funny enough somehow CU left our individual spending caps in place, while allowing 501C4's unlimited spending.

 

[sickc0d3r]

To say one can't spend money to advertise their message is to stifle free speech. To say that others can't volunteer their own resources to aid that effort is to stifle free speech.

I've heard this argument before, I just can't get my head around it. Disallowing unlimited campaign spending by corporations is stifling free speech? Why do we think it's a good idea to have candidates and parties spend most of their time in a courtship with big corporations in order to compete? I'm sure you've thought about this more than I have, but to me it sounds like a terrible idea and not at all in the spirit of free speech.

Seems to me a campaign can simply have spending limits, and corporations can feel free to speak through contributions up to those limits without taking away anyone's rights.

 

[luckyshot]

Since this is a dramatic day, let’s ponder a dramatic scenario:

Roe v. Wade gets overturned. What are the chances? Honestly, now
I put them at about 55%. Trump has already said it is a prerequisite for any SCOTUS justice he’d nominate (which is fucking hilarious considering protecting reproductive rights was his “top issue” [his words] back when he was a “Democrat” in the 90’s, but whatever). Gorsuch is a Jesus freak— he’s voting with the Bible on this one (even tough the Bible never mentions abortion, but whatever). Clarence Thomas is a GOP automaton; he’s voting overturn. That leaves Roberts and Alito. They both voted to overturn a 40 year old precedent (Abood) for no good reason today — why wouldn’t they do the same with Roe?

The more I think of it, if the SCOTUS decides to hear another abortion case, it’s a done deal. So, is there a novel legal argument to be had? I think they’ll find a way.

So, here’s the interesting question: what does California do if Roe v. Wade is overturned by a Supreme Court that the GOP stole? I know we joke about succession... but would that be the unlikeliest outcome?

 

[Lead]

I think collapse is inevitable though.

I get your point, I really do. Easy to call for revolution when you have never really starved, never really been thirsty, never really seen dead women and children in the streets.

I honestly think we are headed their regardless, in one form or another.

To me it is like someone preaching through time to someone in 1929, saying be thankful for what you have, and that you aren't starving, and there is not war.

That is temporary.

The war and starvation are coming. I'm not going to whistle Dixie while I watch it barreling down on us.

There's the idea to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Why do you think the current system isn't salvageable? What system do you think is?

 

[VivaRevolution]

There's the idea to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Why do you think the current system isn't salvageable? What system do you think is?

No system is permanently salvageble.

All systems corrupt over time.

We need new growth. For new growth, you have to clear the old growth. The power brokers won't leave willingly, so they need to be burnt out. If the house, and the bath water have to go with it, so be it.

The foundation is still there. Our nation is stronger then our institutions.

 

[luckyshot]

There's the idea to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Why do you think the current system isn't salvageable? What system do you think is?

There is no salvageable system when one side perverts it continuously (computer based gerrymandering, voter suppression, stealing the SCOTUS, dark money... this is the GOP playbook).

 

[luckyshot]

I've heard this argument before, I just can't get my head around it. Disallowing unlimited campaign spending by corporations is stifling free speech? Why do we think it's a good idea to have candidates and parties spend most of their time in a courtship with big corporations in order to compete? I'm sure you've thought about this more than I have, but to me it sounds like a terrible idea and not at all in the spirit of free speech.

Seems to me a campaign can simply have spending limits, and corporations can feel free to speak through contributions up to those limits without taking away anyone's rights.

The problem all stems from the Conservative’s ridiculous extension of personhood to corporations and speech to money.

Corporations aren’t people. Money isn’t speech. End of fucking essay.

Yet they have no qualms with extending the Constitution in these areas... which is why it is ridiculous for them to claim they are “originalist s” or against “legislation from the bench.”

Conservatives have no problem legislating from the bench when it benefits corporations.

Funny how that works.

 

[HomerThompson]

I'm sick today. I honestly think we're going to spiral into a 100% oligarchy now. The Democrats don't have enough principled people to stop it.

Unless the silent majority of this nation actually stand up, we're in for some really tough times.

 

[VivaRevolution]

There is no salvageable system when one side perverts it continuously (computer based gerrymandering, voter suppression, stealing the SCOTUS, dark money... this is the GOP playbook).

I really don't think the GOP is the problem.

I think if we fixed campaign finance and lobbying, that both parties would start functioning again.

 

[VivaRevolution]

I'm sick today. I honestly think we're going to spiral into a 100% oligarchy now. The Democrats don't have enough principled people to stop it.

Unless the silent majority of this nation actually stand up, we're in for some really tough times.

Shock Doctrine time.

Crisis precipitates opportunity.

The Dems shouldn't obstruct. They shouldn't work with them, they should let the GOP's own institutional corruption come to it's logical conclusion.

 

[luckyshot]

I really don't think the GOP is the problem.

I think if we fixed campaign finance and lobbying, that both parties would start functioning again.

I don’t know if you noticed, but doing everything possible to overturn Citizen’s United was in the top 10 campaign promises of HRC... so don’t try to go “bothesideism” here... that’s what got us into this fucking mess.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...22/hillary-clintons-top-10-campaign-promises/

 

[VivaRevolution]

I don’t know if you noticed, but doing everything possible to overturn Citizen’s United was in the top 10 campaign promises of HRC... so don’t try to go “bothesideism” here... that’s what got us into this fucking mess.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...22/hillary-clintons-top-10-campaign-promises/

This isn't a new mess. It is a continuing descent downwards.

It is a increase in tempo however.

I didn't believe anything Hillary said. I don't think her platform was the problem.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

So, here’s the interesting question: what does California do if Roe v. Wade is overturned by a Supreme Court that the GOP stole? I know we joke about succession... but would that be the unlikeliest outcome?

If Roe vs Wade is overturned, California would quickly pass legislation legalizing abortion in their state. I'd guess 35 or so other states would as well. In fifteen or so states where the majority of the population is anti-abortion, they would pass laws prohibiting abortion in almost all cases except rape and danger to the mother.

Is secession impossible? No. Is it stupid? Yes. The only reason for it would be hurt feelings, because California could easily and without undue turmoil get the exact same result without secession, which is the beauty of our federal framework. It is the abandonment of allowing states to decide how to govern themselves and doing everything top down that has overly focused power in the hands of nine justices.

From drugs, to health care, to abortion, simply let the people of each state decide. A lot less crying over the Anthony Kennedy's of the world that way.

 

[My Spot]

I don’t know if you noticed, but doing everything possible to overturn Citizen’s United was in the top 10 campaign promises of HRC... so don’t try to go “bothesideism” here... that’s what got us into this fucking mess.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...22/hillary-clintons-top-10-campaign-promises/

And you believe Hillary?

 

[second sight]

I'm sick today. I honestly think we're going to spiral into a 100% oligarchy now. The Democrats don't have enough principled people to stop it.

Unless the silent majority of this nation actually stand up, we're in for some really tough times.

Weird, I would describe it as winning