How many wins would max need to pass khabib?

[Reileyb]

A few more way's to compare these two in a P4P way I thought could be interesting for comparison.

Khabib started his pre-ufc career as a 16-0 against opponents with a combined win/loss record being very very poor.

Max started his pre-ufc career 4-0 against similar quality opponents.

If Max also started his UFC career in the same way he would have peaked at 32-3 vs Khabib's peak of 29-0, with Max spending much more time among the UFC elite.

Each man's best UFC win streak being 13-0.

When you try to break things down as much as possible (which can never be apples to apples) it just seems like the best answer is they are both great and can not be compared fairly.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

This is NOT a khabib hate thread, I know how great he is, it’s just something to think about
this is partly subjective, as it just sort of comes down to how notable a win I think it is, so some wins are counted and others aren’t

NOTABLE is the key word, but SUBJECTIVE and POTENTIALLY BIASED are too

Khabib title fight wins
-Iaquinta
-Mcgregor
-Poirier
-Gaethje

Khabib 3 rounder wins
-RDA
-Johnson
-Barboza



Max Holloway title fight wins
-Pettis
-Aldo
-Aldo again
-Ortega
-Edgar

max non title fight 5 rounder wins
-Oliveira
-kattar
-yair
-allen
-tkz (quite a weak win to be honest)

max 3 rounder wins
-swanson
-stephens
-lamas



obviously, Khabib never lost, and only lost two rounds in his career, while max has 7 losses. However, when you look at who max lost to, it’s not the worst. He had 3 losses early in his career to poirier, Bermudez and mcgregor. Then he goes on his win streak, loses to poirier up a weight division. His other 3 losses are all to the same guy, which some may see as a bad style matchup, or volk just being that good (the greatest featherweight of all time in a lot of peoples eye, certainly the best)

so, how many more wins would holloway need to pass khabib? Does he have to become champion again in your eyes? Does picking off top ten guys for the next few years of the volk reign do enough? How about his upcoming fight against gaethje?

NOT a khabib hate thread, just a thought experiment

Failed thread. Answer is there is no answer. I love Max. He's probably my favorite fighter on the roster. Khabib wouldn't take a fight with Leon at 170. We saw Khabib against a 155 pound Tibau. He couldn't take Tibau down and got taken down twice himself. If Khabib fought top guys at 170 he would have a different legacy. If Khabib fought into his mid to late thirties he would have a different legacy. What I love about Max is his fight anybody anytime attitude and willingness to take a shot to give a shot. He believes in his boxing, he believes in his chin and he believes in his cardio. Having said that, your strength can become your weakness. I don't like Max taking the Gaethje fight. Even if he wins I think it's a bad decision on his part (and his management). Max fighting the bigger fighters means his chin will get tested more and eventually it will crack. Gaethje might even be the one to crack it. I think Max would be better served fighting another fight or two at FW and calling it a career. I don't want Max to turn into Frankie. Frankie had a lengendary chin but the end of his career was a highlight reel of KO's for his opponents. Max is an old 32 who has a lot of miles on his odomoter. I think he only has a fight or two left. I've seen some evidence of him starting to slip (very slight at this point). Gaethje vs Max is a great matchup and will be guaranteed fun for the fans. Max is a must-watch fighter. I still think it's a bad decision for his career.

 

[cshireman4]

Love Max, but absolutely not. Khabib never lived in another man's shadow. 0-3 against Volk, 0-2 against DP and a loss to Conor and Dennis Bermudez.

 

[You Will Vote For Dreyga]

He already has

 

[The Siege]

Failed thread. Answer is there is no answer. I love Max. He's probably my favorite fighter on the roster. Khabib wouldn't take a fight with Leon at 170. We saw Khabib against a 155 pound Tibau. He couldn't take Tibau down and got taken down twice himself. If Khabib fought top guys at 170 he would have a different legacy. If Khabib fought into his mid to late thirties he would have a different legacy. What I love about Max is his fight anybody anytime attitude and willingness to take a shot to give a shot. He believes in his boxing, he believes in his chin and he believes in his cardio. Having said that, your strength can become your weakness. I don't like Max taking the Gaethje fight. Even if he wins I think it's a bad decision on his part (and his management). Max fighting the bigger fighters means his chin will get tested more and eventually it will crack. Gaethje might even be the one to crack it. I think Max would be better served fighting another fight or two at FW and calling it a career. I don't want Max to turn into Frankie. Frankie had a lengendary chin but the end of his career was a highlight reel of KO's for his opponents. Max is an old 32 who has a lot of miles on his odomoter. I think he only has a fight or two left. I've seen some evidence of him starting to slip (very slight at this point). Gaethje vs Max is a great matchup and will be guaranteed fun for the fans. Max is a must-watch fighter. I still think it's a bad decision for his career.

Max is too tough for his own good. I am a big fan and I still think he has some years of elite performance at FW, but man is this a bad move to go up to LW to face Gaethje. Even if he wins, that top 5 of LW is a gauntlet and if he gets to a TS, he will have his hands full with Makhachev.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

This is NOT a khabib hate thread, I know how great he is, it’s just something to think about
this is partly subjective, as it just sort of comes down to how notable a win I think it is, so some wins are counted and others aren’t

NOTABLE is the key word, but SUBJECTIVE and POTENTIALLY BIASED are too

Khabib title fight wins
-Iaquinta
-Mcgregor
-Poirier
-Gaethje

Khabib 3 rounder wins
-RDA
-Johnson
-Barboza



Max Holloway title fight wins
-Pettis
-Aldo
-Aldo again
-Ortega
-Edgar

max non title fight 5 rounder wins
-Oliveira
-kattar
-yair
-allen
-tkz (quite a weak win to be honest)

max 3 rounder wins
-swanson
-stephens
-lamas



obviously, Khabib never lost, and only lost two rounds in his career, while max has 7 losses. However, when you look at who max lost to, it’s not the worst. He had 3 losses early in his career to poirier, Bermudez and mcgregor. Then he goes on his win streak, loses to poirier up a weight division. His other 3 losses are all to the same guy, which some may see as a bad style matchup, or volk just being that good (the greatest featherweight of all time in a lot of peoples eye, certainly the best)

so, how many more wins would holloway need to pass khabib? Does he have to become champion again in your eyes? Does picking off top ten guys for the next few years of the volk reign do enough? How about his upcoming fight against gaethje?

NOT a khabib hate thread, just a thought experiment

Max can pass him if he gets another strap in another division...

If Max moves up to 155 properly and stays there and wins a title there he passes Khabib ... As a two division champion...


Outside of that it's going to be hard but Holloway is a top notch fighter and sits in good standing at FW... As far as legacy is concerned...

Khabib isnt some all time GOAT , he's barely the LW GOAT hes tied with BJ Penn for that honor ..and even then BJ Penn has titles in other divisions so that could push him higher overall then Khabib


The fact remains Khabib left on cusp of true greatness...Max is still going and could definitely pass Khabib in accomplishments/legacy if he wins a title at LW or WW moving up in his career over time...

 

[haj02]

He's never gonna have that same legacy, he has his own bad ass legacy but he's never going to have the unstoppable juggernaut legacy Khabib has. Khabib not only was undefeated but he did it with unprecedented dominance. Max has only dominated half a dozen opponents and has often overcame people through his mix of bravery, toughness, chin and cardio.

 

[fizzlehiss]

Khabib nuthuggers will always be delusional. Don't worry about it.

 

[RockyLockridge]

No one is listing Holloway in his GOAT list. Even at 145, people would argue btw Aldo and Volk

No one (sensible) is putting khabib above max on a goat list.

Any sensible top 15 goat list does not have khabib on it.

 

[GordonMMARamsey]

Khabib has 29 wins.
Max has 25 wins.
Max needs 5 wins to pass Khabib.

 

[Flower2dPeople]

Max needs 4 KO victories to pass Khabib: Izzy, Jones, Pereira, Ngannou.

 

[Jfreemandrums]

Khabib never having lost is the only thing he has going for him and the only reason people put him anywhere near GOAT conversations.

As far as elite wins go there are multiple guys in every weightclass that have a more impressive resume than his.

Fr Khabib is so fucking overrated. It makes me want to rank him lower than he actually should be to compensate for everyone dick riding and saying he's the best ever. His strength of schedule fucking BLOWS, and if he was rightfully given the loss to Tibau and was 28-1 instead, people wouldn't cock lick him so much imo . 13 fights in 8 years in the UFC is a joke, Cerrone fought 31 times during the same period (more fights than Khabibs entire career lmao)

I think Prime Benson was a stylistic nightmare for Khabib tbh, a great grappler with serviceable striking, unreal submission defense, and a gas tank that wouldn't quit. Im not saying Bendo has a better legacy or championship stint, but I think he would've been able to get the nod against Nurmy had they ever been matched up.

 

[Substance Abuse]

Max is likely at the tail end of his career over the next few years. Just appreciate him as a person and the fights he's put on.

 

[Tnellie30]

Not possible. Khabib would have beat Max 100 times in 100 fights.

Anybody who has watched them fight would realize this and not try to MMA math some scheme to claim one was better than the other. Anybody with 2 eyes and an honest mind knows this.

I like Max and have always enjoyed his fights - even, moreso, his character and the way he lives his life. But let's stop trying to make some dramatic leap to him potentially being better than Khabib.

 

[LindyBrah]

No its not just that.

Its also HOW he ran through the people he beat. Makin people look fuckin ridiculous.

Max literally taught Brian Ortega how to box mid fight LOL. He has a more illustrious resume than Khabib, even if the latter was more dominant.

 

[HHJ]

Max literally taught Brian Ortega how to box mid fight LOL. He has a more illustrious resume than Khabib, even if the latter was more dominant.

My whole point was dude was more dominant,and caught no L's while doin it. If you wanna talk about illustrious resumes,and use Ortega as an example,well...

 

[HHJ]

Not possible. Khabib would have beat Max 100 times in 100 fights.

Anybody who has watched them fight would realize this and not try to MMA math some scheme to claim one was better than the other. Anybody with 2 eyes and an honest mind knows this.

I like Max and have always enjoyed his fights - even, moreso, his character and the way he lives his life. But let's stop trying to make some dramatic leap to him potentially being better than Khabib.

Max is an awesome fighter,but his style wouldnt work against Khabib and he is too small

 

[wwkirk]

This is NOT a khabib hate thread, I know how great he is, it’s just something to think about
this is partly subjective, as it just sort of comes down to how notable a win I think it is, so some wins are counted and others aren’t

NOTABLE is the key word, but SUBJECTIVE and POTENTIALLY BIASED are too

Khabib title fight wins
-Iaquinta
-Mcgregor
-Poirier
-Gaethje

Khabib 3 rounder wins
-RDA
-Johnson
-Barboza



Max Holloway title fight wins
-Pettis
-Aldo
-Aldo again
-Ortega
-Edgar

max non title fight 5 rounder wins
-Oliveira
-kattar
-yair
-allen
-tkz (quite a weak win to be honest)

max 3 rounder wins
-swanson
-stephens
-lamas



obviously, Khabib never lost, and only lost two rounds in his career, while max has 7 losses. However, when you look at who max lost to, it’s not the worst. He had 3 losses early in his career to poirier, Bermudez and mcgregor. Then he goes on his win streak, loses to poirier up a weight division. His other 3 losses are all to the same guy, which some may see as a bad style matchup, or volk just being that good (the greatest featherweight of all time in a lot of peoples eye, certainly the best)

so, how many more wins would holloway need to pass khabib? Does he have to become champion again in your eyes? Does picking off top ten guys for the next few years of the volk reign do enough? How about his upcoming fight against gaethje?

NOT a khabib hate thread, just a thought experiment

Is infinity an acceptable answer?

 

[moosaev]

Is it just about title wins? What if you’re fighting the exact same people the champion of your division is fighting? Kattar probably would have fought for the title if he had beat Max. Are the stakes lower cause it’s a title shot instead of a title? Is kattar fighting worse becuase he isn’t getting a belt if he wins?

MMA fans like to wave off loses like they don't matter, Oliveira has almost 10 losses by stoppage and people still consider him a GOAT candidate, it's very weird. Max has simply lost too many times to be at the highest echelon.

Max is what I call a "third tier" great. The first tier are guys like GSP, JBJ, Silva, DJ, arguably Khabib. Second tier are guys like Aldo, Volk, Usman, BJ Penn, Khabib (if you don't put him in first tier). Third tier is where you have guys like Holloway.

 

[HHJ]

MMA fans like to wave off loses like they don't matter, it's very weird. Max has lost too many times to be at the highest echelon, he's a third tier great. The first tier are guys like GSP, JBJ, Silva, DJ, arguably Khabib. Second tier are guys like Aldo, Volk, Usman, BJ Penn, Khabib (if you don't put him in first tier). Third tier is where you have guys like Holloway.

I mean....

BJ would have to be alot lower if we are going to heavily factor in losses....