how much instruction in grappling did bruce lee have?

[Aethyr]

Good martial arts film actor. Tremendous physique.

With regards to fighting skill... ehhhhh. Overrated.

Though he has been quoted to say that he thought the combination of boxing and wrestling was formidable, so it's not like he shunned the ground.

We'll never have concrete evidence of his fighting abilities. But I will say this, only someone who has actual fighting experience could come up with his revolutionary ideas. How did WE know that pure striking was not enough? UFC 1. When was that? 30 years after Bruce Lee's recognition of the need to incorporate grappling.

We also know that grappling alone isn't enough. How? A decade after UFC 1 when strikers with grappling started to dominate.

Bruce Lee figured out all of that because he sparred and fought realistically with his students and training partners. And when you do that, you inevitably see what works and what doesn't. And while his SKILL may not match the top fighters today, his mindset, his training philosophy was decades ahead of his time.

Even his sparring gloves are the forerunners of the modern MMA glove. His custom made gloves had individual fingers so that he could use his fingers/hands to grapple and trap.

Only in the last few years do you see armbars and grappling moves in fight scenes in TVs and movies. Bruce Lee? Been there and done that 30 years ago.

I have no doubt that Bruce Lee, had there been a UFC arena in his time, would have owned everyone just like Royce did 30 years later.

 

[lechien]

Dan Inosanto managed to get his BJJ black belt. I assume Bruce Lee would have, too.

If you train long enough, everyone can become a BJJ BB.

But it does not mean you will have the fighting skills of Royce or Rickson Gracie.

 

[lechien]

Only in the last few years do you see armbars and grappling moves in fight scenes in TVs and movies. Bruce Lee? Been there and done that 30 years ago.

I have no doubt that Bruce Lee, had there been a UFC arena in his time, would have owned everyone just like Royce did 30 years later.

But once again, it was in the movies.

The Gracies recorded all their challenges and created a style of fight which was at the time unknown outside Brasil.

 

[a dead stick]

Not to split hairs, but Bruce Lee was in fact acknowledged as having great skills by high level competitors in his era. If you have seen footage of him in non-movie situations its clear he had incredible skills in the realm of striking, so its fairly safe to assume he could have achieved similar results.

Chuck Norris Remembers Bruce Lee | All American Blogger

 

[Ryo]

We'll never have concrete evidence of his fighting abilities. But I will say this, only someone who has actual fighting experience could come up with his revolutionary ideas. How did WE know that pure striking was not enough? UFC 1. When was that? 30 years after Bruce Lee's recognition of the need to incorporate grappling.

We also know that grappling alone isn't enough. How? A decade after UFC 1 when strikers with grappling started to dominate.

Bruce Lee figured out all of that because he sparred and fought realistically with his students and training partners. And when you do that, you inevitably see what works and what doesn't. And while his SKILL may not match the top fighters today, his mindset, his training philosophy was decades ahead of his time.

Even his sparring gloves are the forerunners of the modern MMA glove. His custom made gloves had individual fingers so that he could use his fingers/hands to grapple and trap.

Only in the last few years do you see armbars and grappling moves in fight scenes in TVs and movies. Bruce Lee? Been there and done that 30 years ago.

I have no doubt that Bruce Lee, had there been a UFC arena in his time, would have owned everyone just like Royce did 30 years later.

Um............ Mitsuyo Maeda was doing that decades before Bruce was even born.... he proposed the idea of cutting boxing gloves off at the knuckle and incorporating strikes into grappling.

Bruce didnt invent anything. Grapplers and strikers had been fighting against each other for awhile. Lots of Judo guys would fight boxers and karateka in challenge fights.

Mas Oyama crosstrained in Muay Thai and Judo.

Masahiko Kimura cross trained in Boxing and Karate. He also fought in valetudo fights....

 

[a dead stick]

Boxing gloves only existed in western boxing for like 100 years anyways. The queensbury rules turned what was once a real martial art, into a more spectator friendly sport art. (at one point even incorporated trips, throws ect)

Bruce didnt invent anything.

like the Gracies didn't invent anything?

Or can you admit he was just as innovative? Or are you too attached to your "style" to resist pissing on Bruce Lee.

In North America, the philosophies Bruce Lee espoused moved people in the direction of what MMA became. JKD practitioners were often the first to add BJJ to their training once they discovered it. It stands to reason Lee would have done the same, just as his followers did.

Why the hate?

 

[Ryo]

Clean the sand out of your vagina. I'm not hating on anybody, I'm telling you facts. I didnt say the Gracies invented anything. Nor am I ball licking BJJ. Who cares when boxing gloves were invented.? Maeda did infact advicate using cut off boxing gloves to train and grapple with. My point....

This was back in the early 1900's.

Not to mention the fact that people had been crosstraining in striking and grappling for many many years. So he popularized it through movies? So what? Whats your point. Bruce trained with wrestlers, Judoka and Boxers....

There were many men around in his time who would have submitted him or knocked him out. Reality check.

 

[a dead stick]

There were many men around in his time who would have submitted him or knocked him out. Reality check.

You are the only person who brought up this "immortal Bruce Lee" concept in the entire thread.....so yeah, hater.

:icon_chee

 

[judogido]

Who cares?

 

[Aethyr]

Um............ Mitsuyo Maeda was doing that decades before Bruce was even born.... he proposed the idea of cutting boxing gloves off at the knuckle and incorporating strikes into grappling.

Bruce didnt invent anything. Grapplers and strikers had been fighting against each other for awhile. Lots of Judo guys would fight boxers and karateka in challenge fights.

Mas Oyama crosstrained in Muay Thai and Judo.

Masahiko Kimura cross trained in Boxing and Karate. He also fought in valetudo fights....

So? Sir Isaac Newton invented calculus before Leibniz. Is Leibniz a retard because he came up calculus after Newton? No. He was a genius.

Genius will come up with the same truths, the same conclusions. A real fighter will come up with similar truths, tactics and conclusions.

I'm not saying that Bruce Lee was some fighting god, but he wasn't JUST a movie star either. He was a real fighter who would have held his own, not just because of his skills, but his mindset to constantly evolve and learn.

And perhaps Bruce Lee's biggest contribution was that he evangelized his message of cross training. He didn't just cross train for his own benefit and keep it to himself. He preached it, taught it, put it in his movies. He gave interviews and did demonstrations of the benefits of cross training. And he practiced what he preached.

 

[lechien]

I'm not saying that Bruce Lee was some fighting god, but he wasn't JUST a movie star either. He was a real fighter who would have held his own, not just because of his skills, but his mindset to constantly evolve and learn.

And perhaps Bruce Lee's biggest contribution was that he evangelized his message of cross training. He didn't just cross train for his own benefit and keep it to himself. He preached it, taught it, put it in his movies. He gave interviews and did demonstrations of the benefits of cross training. And he practiced what he preached.

You actually do not read any stuff that Ryo said!

People before Bruce Lee were already cross training, fighting vale tudo and taught it.

The only reason why you think that Bruce Lee is the precursor of MMA (before the existance of the Gracies and UFC) is that you watch his movies! Once again, his movies!

Note: Oyama for some reason did not incorporated Judo in his Karate.

 

[Aethyr]

You actually do not read any stuff that Ryo said!

People before Bruce Lee were already cross training, fighting vale tudo and taught it.

The only reason why you think that Bruce Lee is the precursor of MMA (before the existance of the Gracies and UFC) is that you watch his movies! Once again, his movies!

Note: Oyama for some reason did not incorporated Judo in his Karate.

You're not reading any of the stuff I said either! Re-read what I said. I said that great minds think alike. Great fighters think alike. Bruce Lee's fighting philosophy matches spot on with modern MMA. So did Maeda? Of course. That's why Maeda was a great fighter. And Kimura and anyone else that had the right idea were great fighters ahead of their time. I'm just saying Bruce Lee was one of them. Not that he was the FIRST.

And the last thing I'm basing this on is his movies. I'm basing my statements on his candid interviews, home movies of him training and sparring, statements of his students and contemporaries.

 

[Lionidas]

RIP Bruce.

Btw, he would of started training in BJJ right after watching Royce Gracie at UFC 1.
No doubt in my mind.

 

[crochuck]

The only thing I hate when people talk about Bruce Lee is when people say he was the first to realize you have to have grappling with striking! Uhh no I'm pretty sure the first two cavemen who got in a fight realized that fact. There are a lot of strictly stand up art because people wanted to become experts in that field. It didn't mean they didn't cross train in other things especially back in the day of swords and spears where knowing it could mean your life.

 

[MMA junkie]

Thanks for this thread, ironically, I am wearing a Bruce Lee Shirt today.

 

[a dead stick]

People who talk about Bruce Lee and his movies, as if that was the only thing he did, are either idiots or willfully ignorant or maybe too attached to a certain camp.

He analyzed/studied all the popular martial arts at the time and critiqued them, he realized the importance of grappling, and made specific notes about the importance of wrestling, taking note to study the "old time illegal holds" ie catch wrestling, and cited mat work/ground work as being one of the fundamental assets of Judo as a martial art.

He would have jumped all over the chance to learn and study BJJ had he come across it I'm sure, and yes, for thousands, maybe even millions of martial artists in North America, he was the forerunner of the idea of cross training. Not only that, he was against the very idea of formal styles, as he felt they stifled the expression of the individual martial artist. This is a fact, if you don't like it, eat a dick.

People idolize and lionize Bruce Lee its true, and he never wanted that, he was completely against it. Stop being a closed minded asshole, and go read his words, then come back and apologize for being ignorant ****s.

:icon_chee

 

[Kforcer]

Gene LeBell is quoted in "Fighting" as saying that Bruce Lee's favorite hold was the ankle lock.

 

[Kforcer]

You actually do not read any stuff that Ryo said!

People before Bruce Lee were already cross training, fighting vale tudo and taught it.

The only reason why you think that Bruce Lee is the precursor of MMA (before the existance of the Gracies and UFC) is that you watch his movies! Once again, his movies!

Note: Oyama for some reason did not incorporated Judo in his Karate.

Oyama trained with Kimura and Kimura was actually an instructor in Oyama's school...so, Oyama was at least very versed in grappling, given his training with arguably the greatest grappler of all time.

 

[Kforcer]

Not to split hairs, but Bruce Lee was in fact acknowledged as having great skills by high level competitors in his era. If you have seen footage of him in non-movie situations its clear he had incredible skills in the realm of striking, so its fairly safe to assume he could have achieved similar results.

Chuck Norris Remembers Bruce Lee | All American Blogger

Yup, pretty impressive, and I think, unheard of, that an actor sparred with top-level martial artists as an equal and was even sought out by many of them as a figure of authority.

 

[halfG**]

It does piss me off when people say that he was the grandfather of MMA. He really wasnt. Just because he said that people need to assimilate knowledge from different martial arts doesnt make him the worlds first mixed martial artist.

If you think this you need to jump off his nuts and read your history books.