how much instruction in grappling did bruce lee have?

Ryo said:
Mashiko Kimura were NOT MUCH heavier then Bruce Lee.
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Didn't Kimura outweigh Hilio by almost 40lbs. when they fought? That was why he said if the fight went longer than 10 min. Helio should consider it a victory.
 
Kimura was about 180. The Gracies seem to have exaggerated his size and weight, the same way Kimura exaggerated the size and weight of Gorey Guerrero.

Although, I mean, sometimes people seem bigger to you than they are. Happens all the time, I think, that people attribute additional size and weight to their opponents, almost subconsciously.
 
Thats the Gracie version of it. It's unclear exactly how much Helio weighed at the time. We know he was bigger then his brother Carlos and he was taller then Kimura. The reason he said that was not because of weight.... it was to generate hype for the fight. Kimura was a pro-wrestler. He made his living from drawing crowds.

George Medhi, a Judo master who trained under both Kimura and the Gracies has stated that Kimura agreed to stall for the first 13 minutes of the fight before putting Helio away.
 
EternalRag3 said:
Good martial arts film actor. Tremendous physique.

With regards to fighting skill... ehhhhh. Overrated.

Though he has been quoted to say that he thought the combination of boxing and wrestling was formidable, so it's not like he shunned the ground.
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Is there a video of him saying that? Although I agree it's hard to believe he'd say that considering how wrestling wasnt a big deal back then. It seems like he predicted the future.
 
Ryo said:
Thats the Gracie version of it. It's unclear exactly how much Helio weighed at the time. We know he was bigger then his brother Carlos and he was taller then Kimura. The reason he said that was not because of weight.... it was to generate hype for the fight. Kimura was a pro-wrestler. He made his living from drawing crowds.

George Medhi, a Judo master who trained under both Kimura and the Gracies has stated that Kimura agreed to stall for the first 13 minutes of the fight before putting Helio away.
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Actually medhi said worst.

The stalling story is from kimura autobiography.
 
I have a background in karate and I was training with a guy named Frank Hargrove one time many many years ago who told a story about Bruce Lee. Frank said that when Bruce 1st came to Seattle he would visit his karate school to train. He said Bruce was extremely fast/quick, and probably the fastest guy he's trained with, but was so darn tiny that he would just get kicked around.. Lol!
 
lechien said:
Actually medhi said worst.

The stalling story is from kimura autobiography.
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You may be right. But I distinctly remember reading an interview with Medhi where he said that as well.
 
lechien said:
I did not know that Bruce Lee had any formal training in any form of grappling!
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Some wrestling, a wee bit of silat, and some time with Gene Lebell. He definitely didn't explore Judo as much as he easily could have, especially considering that Judo Gene was one of the people who really handled him
 
selfcritical said:
Some wrestling, a wee bit of silat, and some time with Gene Lebell. He definitely didn't explore Judo as much as he easily could have, especially considering that Judo Gene was one of the people who really handled him
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I once read an interview with Gene Lebell and I believe he said Bruce and him worked out between 10 and 12 times. Bruce Lee's grappling ability was probably that of a white belt. There is a strange cult of Bruce Lee where the line between fact and fiction has become very blurry. I love the guys movies, his philosophy was decent, but I think there were many people who could have beaten him in a fight at 135.
 
Aethyr said:
So? Sir Isaac Newton invented calculus before Leibniz. Is Leibniz a retard because he came up calculus after Newton? No. He was a genius.

Genius will come up with the same truths, the same conclusions. A real fighter will come up with similar truths, tactics and conclusions.

I'm not saying that Bruce Lee was some fighting god, but he wasn't JUST a movie star either. He was a real fighter who would have held his own, not just because of his skills, but his mindset to constantly evolve and learn.

And perhaps Bruce Lee's biggest contribution was that he evangelized his message of cross training. He didn't just cross train for his own benefit and keep it to himself. He preached it, taught it, put it in his movies. He gave interviews and did demonstrations of the benefits of cross training. And he practiced what he preached.
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The fight game is full of coaches who were never top fighters, but have turned out tremendous champions. Bruce read about fighting voraciously and his notebooks (eventually published as the Dao of JKD) were notes he had made from other books.

It is possible for Lee to have been as influential as he was without actually being a fighter himself.

Personally, I don't know what to think. But you're drawing faulty conclusions.
 
JosephDredd said:
The fight game is full of coaches who were never top fighters, but have turned out tremendous champions. Bruce read about fighting voraciously and his notebooks (eventually published as the Dao of JKD) were notes he had made from other books.

It is possible for Lee to have been as influential as he was without actually being a fighter himself.

Personally, I don't know what to think. But you're drawing faulty conclusions.
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Bruce Lee himself was part of the problem, he made many claims that either did not happen or had no witnesses. He claimed that while filming the" Big Boss" in Thailand, that he had a challenge match with a Thai Boxer and beat him. There were no witnesses, there were no names of who the Thai Boxer was. He had one verified Boxing Match when he was in high school (which he won), and there was a challenge match with witnesses with Wong Jack Man. The thing is each witness tells a different account about what transpired when they fought.

Regarding being a coach, who produced top fighters, I can only think of one pure JKD fighter who was successful in MMA, Erik Paulson.

I think Lee was influential, many people got into martial arts because of his movies. As a kid I was a rabid martial arts movie fan, and I idolized Lee. There weren't too many martial arts schools around so I got into wrestling, and I guess at the very least part of it was due to Bruce Lee.

Some people claim that Lee plagiarized his Philosophies, I have no idea whether or not this was true. I think his philosophies were good, and his view on the martial arts evolving was good as well.

Like you I do not know what to think.
 
Daniel Fox said:
Some people claim that Lee plagiarized his Philosophies, I have no idea whether or not this was true. I think his philosophies were good, and his view on the martial arts evolving was good as well.
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This is true, kind of. The Dao of JKD was just personal notes he took from boxing and martial arts manuals. They were never intended to be published.
 
Daniel Fox said:
I agree, I think many collegiate and Olympic Wrestlers would have beaten him. I think good Boxers, Thai Boxers, and Kyokushin Kai guys would have beaten him.
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Tony Danza would have fucked him up. I promise
 
mike sherry said:
Tony Danza would have fucked him up. I promise
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I would have to agree. Danza is probably the toughest Hollywood actor. He was a professional boxer, and from what I understand a pretty decent wrestler.
 
Bruce lee vs Helio EBI rules who wins
 
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