How to finally solve your conditioning problem

[graedy]

You should definatelly write a book.
It is very hard to fully understand your principles just reading this thread.
At the moment I try to figure out what qualities one should improve with rowers.
Given they already have high cardiac output and a resting heartrate in the low 40s.
A high anaerobic treshold seems to be of great importance as this would allow them to limit the lacitc acid produtcion by taxing their lacitic anaerobic system later in the race.
On the other hand improving their alactic anaerobic system doesn't seem to help in this case.

Of course it depends on the individual strengths and weaknesses of the athlete what he needs to work.

I still wonder which qualities you would focus most on with a rower.

 

[EZA]

Graedy,

Yes I am working on the book, or at least sections of it. It would be difficult if not impossible to understand all the principles I have talked about and how to apply from them discussion board posts. Many of my principles and methods are far different than what is commonly used in MMA strength and conditioning and they have taken me many years and countless hours of intense study and research, trial and error, and consistent application and modification to develop and refine them. My methods and training programs are developed around a systematic approach and scientific understanding of human performance, not on the random haphazard foundation most training programs are built on. Hopefully this post and the discussion has gone on has at least stimulated people to realize there is a different and much more effective way to train than what most people are typically doing.

That being said, I haven't worked with rowers and I'm not familiar enough with the sport to know what the exact model of performance looks like so I can't comment very accurately on what training methods they should use. I'd need to see heart rate profiles during races to get an idea of the energy systems involved and asses some of the better rowers to see what separates them physiologically from average or beginner rowers. Once you understand where they are strong where others are weak, you can develop a training model. I will say, however, that I don't see a need for them to have resting heart rates in the low 40s when their races are only a few minutes. Typically that type of cardiac output would only be required in extreme long distance sports.

Generally speaking, I would think they would need excellent nervous sytem developent along with a focus on the fast twitch oxidative glycolytic fibers. These fibers are the best suited towards high power output and endurance that would be necessary for the sport. The alactic system would only come in to play towards the end of a race where they were sprinting as fast as they could. Also, yes a high anaerobic threshold would be necessary, and I would think power output on a rower at their anaerobic threshold would be a fairly good predictor of performance.

 

[Ian Coe]

Joel



My question. Would a interval of 1 minute at say 160-170 and then having a interval until it falls back to 120 be advisable to someone trying to work on their anaerobic verging on aerobic capabilities (I'm thinking of a event the mirrors the 400m running sprint).

If you're trying to work on your "anaerobic verging on aerobic" capabilities then this is best accomplished with either doing continuous work at or near your anaerobic threshold and/or by doing threshold work with higher speed short intervals of 5-10 seconds. A one minute interval of 160-170 wouldn't be long enough to stimulate much improvement in this regard except in a very low level athlete.

So if doing intervals, would you go for time for time/distance and then weight until the HR returned to a certain level before starting the next one, rather then basing it off rest time?

Thanks
Ian

 

[graedy]

Graedy,

Yes I am working on the book, or at least sections of it. It would be difficult if not impossible to understand all the principles I have talked about and how to apply from them discussion board posts. Many of my principles and methods are far different than what is commonly used in MMA strength and conditioning and they have taken me many years and countless hours of intense study and research, trial and error, and consistent application and modification to develop and refine them. My methods and training programs are developed around a systematic approach and scientific understanding of human performance, not on the random haphazard foundation most training programs are built on. Hopefully this post and the discussion has gone on has at least stimulated people to realize there is a different and much more effective way to train than what most people are typically doing.

That being said, I haven't worked with rowers and I'm not familiar enough with the sport to know what the exact model of performance looks like so I can't comment very accurately on what training methods they should use. I'd need to see heart rate profiles during races to get an idea of the energy systems involved and asses some of the better rowers to see what separates them physiologically from average or beginner rowers. Once you understand where they are strong where others are weak, you can develop a training model. I will say, however, that I don't see a need for them to have resting heart rates in the low 40s when their races are only a few minutes. Typically that type of cardiac output would only be required in extreme long distance sports.

Generally speaking, I would think they would need excellent nervous sytem developent along with a focus on the fast twitch oxidative glycolytic fibers. These fibers are the best suited towards high power output and endurance that would be necessary for the sport. The alactic system would only come in to play towards the end of a race where they were sprinting as fast as they could. Also, yes a high anaerobic threshold would be necessary, and I would think power output on a rower at their anaerobic threshold would be a fairly good predictor of performance.

Thx for the answer. As a scientist you should look into working with rowers at one point in your carreer. A race in rowing is a very complex puzzle when it comes to the different energy systems taxed. A race is 2000m and lasts between 6:00 and 7:00 mins. From what I know the heartrate is in the upper end of the scale from start to finish. The lactate tolerance of toprowers is unreal. Sometimes over 25mmol/l are measured.

 

[EZA]

I'm sure rowers would be an interesting group to work with, I know there's some top crew programs that use the Omegawave testing system that I use as well. The University of Washington where I went to school and coached is also one of the top crew programs in the nation but I worked primarily with football. I would think lactate tolerance and explosive strength-endurance would be the keys to success in that sport, 25mol/l is certainly an impressive number.

Ian,

Yes when doing intervals if your goal is to improve the power of a system then you use HR as your guide for when you should do the next one, only when training to improve the capacity of a system do you want incomplete rest intervals and the use of time to determine when your next rep should be.

 

[Benji Snap]

Hey EZA, I had a blood test and got my results back today and noticed I had a low haemoglobin level and some other things were on the low end of the range. This is bad for endurance right? Here are my results:

ImageShack :: picture18uj4.jpg

ImageShack :: picture20on6.jpg

Could you please have a look and tell me your thoughts? Any advice would really be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[EZA]

You're on the lower end of normal for a few different blood markers, but nothing dramatic. Focus on increasing your green leafy vegetables, meat, and dried fruits. It probably wouldn't hurt to add in a good iron supplement. Work on that and retest in a few months and see if they improve. It's probably not helping your conditioning any but it's not something that can't be fixed and your body has a lot of ways for compensating when haemoglobin is low so I doubt it's affecting your conditioning to a huge degree. You'd probably notice a slight difference if you can get them up, but it won't be night and day or anything.

Some of your liver enzymes are also slightly elevated but that's pretty common and can be caused by a lot of things.

There's a company based in Oregon that will custom make multivitamin and amino acids supplements for you based on blood work that I really like: http://www.met abolicmaintenance.com but you have to find a good doctor who works with them typically, usually N.D.s will be the most likely to.

 

[Benji Snap]

You're on the lower end of normal for a few different blood markers, but nothing dramatic. Focus on increasing your green leafy vegetables, meat, and dried fruits. It probably wouldn't hurt to add in a good iron supplement. Work on that and retest in a few months and see if they improve. It's probably not helping your conditioning any but it's not something that can't be fixed and your body has a lot of ways for compensating when haemoglobin is low so I doubt it's affecting your conditioning to a huge degree. You'd probably notice a slight difference if you can get them up, but it won't be night and day or anything.

Some of your liver enzymes are also slightly elevated but that's pretty common and can be caused by a lot of things.

There's a company based in Oregon that will custom make multivitamin and amino acids supplements for you based on blood work that I really like: http://www.met abolicmaintenance.com but you have to find a good doctor who works with them typically, usually N.D.s will be the most likely to.

Thank you. I'll follow your advice and get it rechecked soon.:icon_chee

 

[stewy37]

EZA: In this week's T-Nation e-newsletter, there was a short article by Christian Thibadeau about fasted cardio for fat loss. I was wondering what your thoughts about it are when combined with your HICT protocol that you've talked about in this thread.

These were the main points:

Pro #1: "Morning cardio could potentially increase the amount of free fatty acids (FFA) used up as fuel... since fat is the primary energy source during your sleeping period, chances are that upon waking you have a greater amount of free fatty acids available. Since you don't have to mobilize them (they're already freed up) they become easier to oxidize for fuel and are thus more readily used up during morning cardio."

Pro #2: Fasted morning cardio could also potentially be glycogen-sparing for the same reason as stated above: the greater availability of FFAs reduces the reliance of glycogen for fuel during low-intensity energy systems work.

Pro #3: Fasted morning cardio could lead to an improved fatty acid mobilization during exercise and increase insulin sensitivity afterwards. This might be true of exercise at a low level of intensity (50-75% of max VO2) since this decreases insulin levels via the stimulation of adrenergic receptors. A lower insulin level can increase fatty acid mobilization.

Thanks for your input.

 

[graedy]

Given you are properly hydrated your haematocrit and HB are what tell you about the abiltiy of your blood to transport oxygen. If you are dehydrated both can go up quite a bit.
So if you recheck make sure to be properly hydrated.

 

[coreycav]

EZA,

I have a few questions in regards to training and would really appreciate your insight. I am an ammy mma fighter and regular competitor in sub grappling.

After reading this thread i tested my resting heart rate and it was between 58-65. Since i have no fights or competitions lined up i planned and improving my cardiac output through the means you have suggested. My questions are: how long does one usually need to work on cardiac output from my starting point to get it to the levels you suggest for top fighters (low to mid 50's)

Also, once i have reached that goal and either began fight prep or move onto other goals for my attributes, is cardiac output still needed to be worked on to keep the improvments. Example: I decrease my resting heart rate to low 50's through proper training and then move focus to alactic power and capacity, do i still need sessions dedicated to cardiac output to keep the improvements or will my alactic training still help to keep the gains i have made.

And another question, i still train my skills 4-5 times a week even though i have no more fights planned for this year, how many cardiac output sessions do you reccomend ( i only strength train once a week with basics because its not a weakness for me being i transitioned from powerlifting into mma when i started). Usually for cardiac output i have been doing light skill work and gpp in the heart rate zones you reccomended for the time period you have reccomended. If there is a better way or if my way is allright please also feel free to suggest.

Thank you for your time and help, your insights on this thread has really helped so far.

 

[EZA]

Stewy37,

Fasted morning cardio is a very old idea, certainly nothing new. My opinion and experience from talking to and working with nutrition experts Tom Incledon and Dr. Susan Kleiner is that it's better to have some protein, preferably in liquid form, before a morning workout if your goal is fat loss. There are several reasons for this I won't get into, but drinking some protein or taking some EAA before a morning workout can help in fat loss and is better than simply a fasted state.

That being said, it's not really an approach you'd want to take with a competetive athlete. The goal of training if you're an athlete is to improve your energy systems, this generally isn't going to happen very effectively if your cardio is being done in a depleted morning state.

Coreycav,

Those are some good questions. My new website is up and I'll be putting in most of my time answering questions there so if you'd like to repost it at Welcome to 8 Weeks Out I'd be happy to get to it faster. The same goes for anyone else on here as well, I'll still be checking in on these forums and answering questions but my priority will be building the discussion forums on my own site so anyone who wants faster responses should join me there.

I built the entire site from scratch by myself and I am terrible at graphics and web design so it's taken me awhile but it's at least functional now. I'll have a ton new content on there coming in the next few weeks but the site is now officially up and running so feel free to join.

 

[Monger]

EZA's website is very nicely done, in my opinion. I would encourage you guys to check it out.

 

[stewy37]

Thanks EZA. That's about what I thought. The article did say to take some BCAAs before training, so that is along the lines of what you're saying about getting some protein.

As far as performance goes, with the HICT, since it's done at a pretty low heart rate, so I think I could get through it without much trouble with just some BCAAs or EAAs in my system. This would be done in addition to my more intense sessions and my MMA training, so maybe twice a week.

 

[Vidar79]

Stewy37,

Fasted morning cardio is a very old idea, certainly nothing new. My opinion and experience from talking to and working with nutrition experts Tom Incledon and Dr. Susan Kleiner is that it's better to have some protein, preferably in liquid form, before a morning workout if your goal is fat loss. There are several reasons for this I won't get into, but drinking some protein or taking some EAA before a morning workout can help in fat loss and is better than simply a fasted state.

That being said, it's not really an approach you'd want to take with a competetive athlete. The goal of training if you're an athlete is to improve your energy systems, this generally isn't going to happen very effectively if your cardio is being done in a depleted morning state.

.

Thank You!! Now, Could you say this in a more condensed form so I can make it my sig?

Checking the site out now. If your posts are any indication, I'm sure it's goin to be top notch.

 

[EZA]

Thanks Monger, let's get some discussion going on there so feel free to sign up and ask me some questions! I put up a few good pics of Leben training and I'll most more soon. I just found some really old school footage I have of Maurice Smith training with Randy Couture in my gym from about 5 years ago that I'll edit and post within the next week or so.

As far as HICT in the morning, I wouldn't really consider it low heart rates, you want to be near the anaerobic threshold and when done properly HICT is brutally hard and I wouldn't suggest doing it on a completely empty stomach.

I also like EAAs for pre and post workout more so than just BCAA but the best product I'm aware of is the EAA made by Pure Encapsulations but you can't order directly from them. There is also a company called met abolic Maintenance in Oregon that will custom blend you amino acids so that might be a good alternative for those who want to put together their own version.

Musashi makes some great amino acid producs too, probably the best on the market, but most of their stuff isn't available in the US through stores because they're an australian company but I'm sure you can order online somewhere. I was going to pick some up in Japan when I was there but it's way too expensive over there. They have an amino acid product called "Muscle Gain" that's one of their better products.

 

[Vidar79]

Joel,
I have a question about something you stated in a previous post. You mentioned ADHD medicine having an effect on trianing. Which after seeing that I thought DUH! I have a guy who has a higher than expected HR prior to each session. However he has been an athlete for a while and could not figure out why this is. Come to find out he was taking Vyvanse a pro-drug similar to adderall and just recently started it this year. So I attribue this to why he hits threshold seemingly pre-maturely. I talked to a doctor on my advisory board over lunch and he seemed baffled that it would have this effect. Although this is not his specialty. Can you give me a little more insight or even if there is some research you have found? I consulted with his physician and he said he could take it after morning workouts if necessary. I am wondering if this is a long enough time to get his CNS back to norml before the next workout.

 

[mschatz]

Joel, I registered on your site, but the forum doesnt seem to be allowing new posts. I couldnt find any modules for creating new threads, replying, or anything similar.

 

[Deleted member 56619]

Good job on the site Joel. Check out stronglifts.com and see what that guy has done with a blog. Might give ya some ideas.
A RSS feed would be a good addition to keep everyone updated when you write new articles.

 

[EZA]

I think I might have the permissions set incorrectly for the forums but hopefully I've unlocked everything now. Try creating a new topic now and email directly if it doesn't work but I think it should.

I've also added an RSS subscription module on the front page, articles page, and blog so people can keep updated on new things I add. I'm working on a couple new articles which should be posted soon and I'll update the blog regularly with training info on the guys I'm training.

Vidar,

I haven't looked at specific research on training and ADHD medications, I'm simply going on what I've seen through experience. That said, ADHD meds are essentially a form of CNS stimulant (it seems counterintuitive that stimulants would help people focus) but that's the way it works so I'm not sure why a doctor wouldn't realize this effect. All you have to do is google and adhd medication and look at the listed side effects, all list "increased heart rate" as one of them.

If you want my personal opinion I'm not a fan of the medications at all except in extreme cases and instead I've found much better results for people with problems by using a combination of Acetyl l-carinitine, Alpha GPC, Piracetam, R-ALA, Huperzine, and Vinpocetine. These types of nootropic supplements are more effective, have far less side effects, and offer increased CNS benefits as well.

Tom Incledon used to make a product he developed for Romanowski that was hands down the most effective produce of its kind I've ever seen (of course the downside was that it was $5 per serving). The results were incredible but I don't think it's available through him at the moment so I just order the supplements separately and make my own version of it. Have your guy do some research on the supplements and give them a try instead of the medication and let me know what happens.