I don't understand people who rank Nogueira above Stipe

[GangGangGang]

Funny how you put some context in Nog's wins saying Werdum was green and not in Stipe's wins when you don't mention that he beat an aging and careless Werdum literally running into his punches. And what about JDS who clearly was not the same fighter he used to be.

You just manipulate facts to your advantage

Don't call Werdum aging when he was the champ.. Like what kind of excuse is that? The guy couldn't of been ranked any higher.

 

[mjfan23]

Reem was the #4 HW in the world. Werdum was #1 HW in the world. DC was the #1 HW in the world. Francis was an ‘unbeatable’ monster and ranked #2 HW in the world. JDS was top 5 in the world. What better examples do you need?

And mark hunt, AA, Sergei, Mir and even Fedor were a win or two away from a title shot or the title itself in the Stipe days. Friggin dinosaurs were still relevant!

Pathetic state of HW division. Stipe basically ruled (if you take away the fat old LHW DC) the worst HW division in the history of the sport. Nog was number two man on the planet in the best era of HW division history.

 

[Carl25]

Nog has 45 fights
Stipe has 22

 

[Grenades]

And mark hunt, AA, Sergei, Mir and even Fedor were a win or two away from a title shot or the title itself in the Stipe days. Friggin dinosaurs were still relevant!

Pathetic state of HW division. Stipe basically ruled (if you take away the fat old LHW DC) the worst HW division in the history of the sport. Nog was number two man on the planet in the best era of HW division history.

Yet no one wants a piece of the division. Fighters cutting 40-50lbs to avoid the HWs because they’re so weak?

 

[mjfan23]

Yet no one wants a piece of the division. Fighters cutting 40-50lbs to avoid the HWs because they’re so weak?

Lol DC came up at 50 years old and beat the snot out of Stipe and rest of the division. Now guys like OSP(irrelevant at LHW) are coming up too. HW is the weakest division all those dinosaurs I mentioned are still very relevant. Hell AA is fighting on an upcoming card and Reem was just toolig the guy fighting Francis for a title shot!

in all seriousness that isn’t Stipes fault but the division unfortunately does suck and there’s nothing you can do to justify it.

Talking to a newb known from being a Stipe worshipper on sherdog about the state of HW division over the years is like asking a gold fish for a history lesson.

 

[Grenades]

Lol DC came up at 50 years old and beat the snot out of Stipe and rest of the division. Now guys like OSP(irrelevant at LHW) are coming up too. HW is the weakest division all those dinosaurs I mentioned are still very relevant. Hell AA is fighting on an upcoming card and Reem was just toolig the guy fighting Francis for a title shot!

in all seriousness that isn’t Stipes fault but the division unfortunately does suck and there’s nothing you can do to justify it.

Talking to a newb known from being a Stipe worshipper on sherdog about the state of HW division over the years is like asking a gold fish for a history lesson.

Yeah been around MMA most likely longer than you but if calling me a newb as a last ditch effort helps, then bless you. Still didn’t answer my question why everyone avoids the HWs.

 

[FrankWank]

Nog is a legend and Stipe beat a bunch of washed up guys and a green Francis.
It is what it is.

 

[NoSmilez]

Nog has a better pedigree than Stipe. People tend to underestimate Stipe since he comes from a bullshit team with no real real training partners.

 

[MartinGibson86]

I would point out Werdum was not "green" when he fought Nog, he'd actually been fighting MMA for 4 years by that point and was far from clueless standing having worked with Crocop's team for a couple of years. I actually think that boxing wise he'd picked up most of his game by that point, it was just that he lacked the clich game/knees he developed at chute boxe. On the other hand though Pride Werdum was much more agile and actually a decent takedown threat whilst UFC Werdum rarely got anyone decent down.

Also watch the second match and you see even an old declined Nog outboxes a UFC Werdum before losing via grappling which Werdum was just as good at or better in 2006. I strongly suspect 2006 Nog vs 2014 Werdum would pan out much the same way as the 2006 fight with Werdum getting outboxed, maybe he might offer a bit more threat in the clinch but Nog was actually quite strong there himself so would not be easy to do much against.

Yea but Nog gets killed by Bork.

Killed.


Werdum a live dog off his back sgsinst zBork.

 

[MartinGibson86]

TS is a Grade A loser and imbecile and any true mod with some respect should ban him and everyone who agreed with him. Utter sacrilege Nog is number 2 of all time and Stipe with his wins over aging washed up fighters is as exciting as watching pain dry. Nog is an go legend whose fights with Fedor and Crocop are spoken of in hushed whispers. Stipe was being underrated by a lot of folks when he first came thru, and his boxing was something to behold. But no his career is maybe more on par with someone like Tim Sylvia or Mir.

No current champ under 30...msle or female... Pride was a joke

 

[VenomCarnage]

nog got absolutely outclassed by frank mir everywhere
that should tell you all you need to know about nog

Nog was shot by then.

 

[VenomCarnage]

Nogueira was already way over the hill by the time he touched the UFC canvas.

People seem to really struggle with this premise, you can still be world class and win fights when you're past your prime, look at St. Pierre, look at Aldo, look at Silva.

Nogueira was older, slower, and all around banged up by 2007/2008 - yet kept on winning.

 

[snugglecakes]

I didn’t know anybody considered nog better than stipe.

 

[Bobbybackpack]

So Green Werdum is worse than Zombie JDS and Glass Boy Overeem?

Yes. "Glass boy"Overeem beat Green Werdum twice and Overeem has been "glass boy" for over a decade now and still beats elite heavyweights. "Zombie" JDS and "Glass boy" Overeem were fighting for the world title in their losses to Stipe. "Zombie" JDS went on to beat good fighters afterwards too.

Your argument is invalid.

 

[Bobbybackpack]

I didn’t know anybody considered nog better than stipe.

They still do

 

[Bobbybackpack]

I couldn't find Nelson in the rankings, Gonzaga was 10th. So Stipe's got 8 top 10 wins to Big Nog's 14.

I bet you most of those 14 were gatekeepers and not actual title contenders. But they were "top 10" so it's fine.

 

[Bobbybackpack]

Pride Nostalgia

 

[boss429]

Stipe beat better competition and didn't need any close decisions to do it.

Losses don't matter now?

"Glass boy Overeem" beat a much better version of Werdum AFTER he got KO'd by Stipe lmao

Saying "Stipe beat better competition" is a big part of the problem though.

Stipe fought 1 elite top 5 opponent in his prime and lost that fight.

Nog fought and beat elite top 5 competition in their prime and won.

Also, from a stylistic standpoint saying "Stipe fought better competition" is bullshit unless you believe the aged versions of guy's he fought that were struggling as much younger men during Nog's "prime" are better.

Aside from JDS and DC every proven name on Stipes resume are guys who were fighting during Nog's prime, the only difference being they had become much older and had the letters "UFC" after their names at the time Stipe beat them.

 

[Grenades]

Saying "Stipe beat better competition" is a big part of the problem though.

Stipe fought 1 elite top 5 opponent in his prime and lost that fight.

Nog fought and beat elite top 5 competition in their prime and won.

Also, from a stylistic standpoint saying "Stipe fought better competition" is bullshit unless you believe the aged versions of guy's he fought that were struggling as much younger men during Nog's "prime" are better.

Aside from JDS and DC every proven name on Stipes resume are guys who were fighting during Nog's prime, the only difference being they had become much older and had the letters "UFC" after their names at the time Stipe beat them.

Good to see you and hope you’re safe and healthy. That said, If you really think prime Nog could beat DC , Ngannou or Stipe, we’ll debate it. All 3 of them shut down Nog takedowns and sleep him with hands.

 

[moreorless87]

Don't call Werdum aging when he was the champ.. Like what kind of excuse is that? The guy couldn't of been ranked any higher.

No I'm with you here, I don't think Werdum dropped off massively one fight after beating Cain, moreso that I think Stipe exploited Werdum's weak boxing defence and wreckless rushes forward.

I would say though that's kind of the story of Stipe's career, he's basically won fights via targeting weaknesses in an era were his opponents had clear weaknesses to target. Werdum's career is great due to its length but honestly if I was ranking peak for I would not have him close to the top of HW all time.