If Alexander Karelin entered UFC 1

Rickson Gracie would let Karelin take him down.

Get taken down, Play Guard, Sweep, Mount, Armbar.

Rickson would take Karelin's arm home with him.
 
icarigo said:
Karelin STOMPS the Gracie family blindfolded with one arm tied behind his back.

I don't know why this is even discussed anymore, I very much doubt even Rodolfo Vieira could do anything to Karelin.
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I don't see how being one of the best wrestlers automatically makes you a favorite as best jiu jitsu guy too.
 
Commissar said:
Yes.

Submissions aren't allowed in wrestling.
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Being in Russia and in the grappling scene, you don't think Karelin would've been exposed to Sambo in one form or another?

Again, answer is no.
 
Why is everyone saying Karelin "destroys" Royce? Isn't that what they said about everybody who walked into the early UFC's? These big, hulking figures would all "destroy" this skinny Brazilian kid. Dan Severn was no slouch of a wrestler and he actually was able to accomplish what wrestlers do...he pinned Royce. But he didn't destroy him? Royce survived long enough to submit Severn. What would happen between a fight between Severn and Karelin? NOT a Greco match. NOT a wrestling match. But a fight? Does Karelin "destroy" a 2 time All-American wrestler about the same size as him? Do you people honestly believe that Severn, or Royce, or anyone in the UFC would sprawl on all fours and wait for the "Karelin lift" or something? Karelin was the best of the best at a very specific skill set. He was very good at basically throwing people to the ground. So? Royce was very skilled AFTER it hit the ground. How would it play out? Karelin closes for a bear hug...Royce pulls guard? Sounds like the Severn fight? Or did Karelin have some tremendous stand up that I'm missing? Or was he just going to gut wrench him to death?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Karelin couldn't "beat" Royce. But to say he'd "destroy" him? I think that down plays the reason everyone was so enthralled with that skinny Brazilian kid in the first place.
 
deadlizard said:
Being in Russia, you don't think Karelin would've been exposed to Sambo in one form or another?

Again, answer is no.
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There's no evidence to support the theory that he trained Sambo, except being from Russia. Which is akin to suggesting a person from Japan trained Judo.

Not exactly enough empirical evidence for me.
 
CrazyAlex said:
How exactly would any Gracie get Karelin to the ground when the very best 280lbs+ wrestlers in the world could not? Someone enlighten me on this please.
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ANY lower body takedown...which don't exist in Greco? Any type of Judo trip or...wait...why would they have to take Karelin down? If Karelin is going to "destroy" Royce...wouldn't he be taking Royce down anyway? See, problem solved.
 
Commissar said:
There's no evidence to support the theory that he trained Sambo, except being from Russia. Which is akin to suggesting a person from Japan trained Judo.

Not exactly enough empirical evidence for me.
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Evidence in a fantasy matchup? Not sure if serious...

We're arguing BS anyway. This thread belongs in the wasteland. A true waste of time since my computer is too slow compiling shit.
 
deadlizard said:
Evidence in a fantasy matchup? Not sure if serious...

We're arguing BS anyway. This thread belongs in the wasteland. A true waste of time since my computer is too slow compiling shit.
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We both must be bored for even clicking on this thread. :icon_chee
 
deadlizard said:
Evidence in a fantasy matchup? Not sure if serious...

We're arguing BS anyway. This thread belongs in the wasteland. A true waste of time since my computer is too slow compiling shit.
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Agreed.

You guys sure are taking this fantasy shit seriously.
 
Commissar said:
We both must be bored for even clicking on this thread. :icon_chee
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Yeah, I was trying to make a joke about Gracie doing a DLR and got sucked into this time waster without me even noticing it.

Look, I'm posting here again.. Fuck me...
 
Ninjamurf said:
ANY lower body takedown...which don't exist in Greco? Any type of Judo trip or...wait...why would they have to take Karelin down? If Karelin is going to "destroy" Royce...wouldn't he be taking Royce down anyway? See, problem solved.
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Implying that a greco roman wrestler does not know how to defend a lower body takedown isl absurd.
Implying that THE best greco roman wrestler in history does not know how to defend a lower body takedown is completely demented.

Royce would never get Karelin down. What would he do then? Use the vaunted Gracie-****roach-killer-kick to break his knee?

Karelin would kill Royce with his bear paw. Just because he's a wrestler, it doesn't mean he can't punch. And there are submissions in freestyle wrestling. They're just not "completely" allowed in competition (neck cranks, leg rides, hammerlocks, etc).

And comparing Dan Severn to Karelin is like comparing a random blackbelt brazilero champion to a 285 lbs Roger Gracie.
 
Gabicho said:
Implying that a greco roman wrestler does not know how to defend a lower body takedown isl absurd.
Implying that THE best greco roman wrestler in history does not know how to defend a lower body takedown is completely demented.

Royce would never get Karelin down. What would he do then? Use the vaunted Gracie-****roach-killer-kick to break his knee?

Karelin would kill Royce with his bear paw. Just because he's a wrestler, it doesn't mean he can't punch. And there are submissions in freestyle wrestling. They're just not "completely" allowed in competition (neck cranks, leg rides, hammerlocks, etc).

And comparing Dan Severn to Karelin is like comparing a random blackbelt brazilero champion to a 285 lbs Roger Gracie.
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This.

ShogunTBone said:
Karelin by whatever he chooses.

I vote Randleplex ... or Karelinplex, otherwise known as "death".
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And also this.
 
Karelin.gif


That guy in the photo is 300 lbs.

Rickson is 185 lbs.

Do the math.
 
So Severn lost to Royce because he wasn't strong enough to lift him from a reverse body-lock?
 
Karelin would have mauled him like a bear, but that is unfair as we know when it comes to fighting and what skills work and do not.

So it would not really matter.
 
CrazyAlex said:
How exactly would any Gracie get Karelin to the ground when the very best 280lbs+ wrestlers in the world could not? Someone enlighten me on this please.
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pull guard as most of people on BJJ like to do ...
 
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