If you ever feel like a moron, just remember this

TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
An athletic 250+lbs NFL player or rugby player absolutely could beat a lot of guys at 155 and lower.
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Bro you’re stupid to even think that

None of these nfl guys guys would beat 150 lbs top tier grapplers let alone ufc fighters. If they have no training they will get fucking smoked. Small guys are ducking quick and can get to your back easily. I would even bet female ufc fighters with good bjj would choke out any of these guys.

people without training get smoked quickly

Very quickly
 
Didnt the Gracie's prove this already through the 1980 and 1990s and that was just jiujitsu only one part of MMA..

Weight class matters to a degree...but totally untrained big guy vs versus highly skilled little guy is only gunna go one way... little guy gunna smash or submit the big dude...

What's the point of all that size if you dont know how to use it... Your just gunna gas or make a mistake and get off balance and lose ...a guy like Khabib isnt gunna give two fucks about smashing your face in or choking you out cold in the street ...

Now a trained HW vs Trained Small guy is another story ...the early UFCs taught us that..
 
Paolo Delutis said:
What's the point of all that size if you dont know how to use it.
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American football and rugby players dont know how to use their size?

Both of those sports require the players to have some rudimentary grappling skill and an understanding of leverage, how to generate power etc etc.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
Jesus Christ lol.
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What’s there to be surprised about ?

Can any untrained dude beat wnba players in basketball?

What about professional female tennis players in tennis?

We are talking about untrained people. You are acting like you can just rag doll people that train their whole lives not to get grabbed lol

It’s just pure arrogance
 
tastaylvr said:
What’s there to be surprised about ?

Can any untrained dude beat wnba players in basketball?

What about professional female tennis players in tennis?

We are talking about untrained people. You are acting like you can just rag doll people that train their whole lives not to get grabbed lol

It’s just pure arrogance
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How are basketball or tennis remotely comparable to fighting or other heavy contact sports in this context?

Eventually the disparity in size, strength, ability to withstand and generate impact etc etc becomes too great for technique to work properly. Thats why we have weight classes, why you're not gonna be armbarring a bear, why a 10 year old boxing or wrestling prodigy isnt going to be beating up in shape adult males, and why Mackenzie Dern vs Ray Lewis would just be downright uncomfortable to watch.
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
How are basketball or tennis remotely comparable to fighting or other heavy contact sports in this context?

Eventually the disparity in size, strength, ability to withstand and generate impact etc etc becomes too great for technique to work properly. Thats why we have weight classes, why you're not gonna be armbarring a bear, why a 10 year old boxing or wrestling prodigy isnt going to be beating up in shape adult males, and why Mackenzie Dern vs Ray Lewis would just be downright uncomfortable to watch.
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Why do you think you can fight without any training? Because you can jump high or lift weights? lol cmon now. The problem is that people like you think these sports are not comparable to fighting. That's all ego talk. A 6ft8 person who never played basketball would never claim he can beat Kyrie Irving just because he is short.

I've seen too many heroes walk into the gym thinking they can size bully people. It's funny to watch them get humbled every single time. Size makes a difference if you have some sort of training. An untrained person has zero chance.



This would happen basically every time.

We had Gracies prove this decades ago. They only used BJJ and raped much bigger guys easily. Can you imagine what a modern UFC fighter would do with their skills?
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
Why is the "200lb boxer" not throwing punches and initiating grappling?
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How will an untrained person initiate grappling? What will this untrained person do?? How will he start the exchange?

How will a person who doesn't know how to fight actually hit a punch? Why do you act like hitting a punch accurately is easy? Landing strikes is difficult vs people who don't want to get hit. Now imagine a person who can't strike vs someone who dodges strikes for a living..
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
American football and rugby players dont know how to use their size?

Both of those sports require the players to have some rudimentary grappling skill and an understanding of leverage, how to generate power etc etc.
Click to expand...

Ya that american football rugby training often includes

Punching with proper mechanics
Kicking with proper mechanics
Submission application and defense


Mmmyap also

Takedown defense is not the same tackle defense


Outside of a lucky punch/strike which anyone can land on anyone... The football player and rugby player are at a distinct disadvantage...its just facts
 
Paolo Delutis said:
Ya that american football rugby training often includes

Punching with proper mechanics
Kicking with proper mechanics
Submission application and defense


Mmmyap also

Takedown defense is not the same tackle defense


Outside of a lucky punch/strike which anyone can land on anyone... The football player and rugby player are at a distinct disadvantage...its just facts
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Lol a lot of MMA fighters barely punch and kick with proper mechanics. Woodley used to lift his rear foot fully off the floor when throwing his right hand and yet he was one of the biggest punchers ever at 170 because of his raw athleticism and natural ability to generate impact. Imagine seriously thinking a lot of NFL dudes cant fucking crack.

If we are talking 155 and below vs HW sized rugby/NFL players, no it isnt just down to punchers chance. At that point the threshold has been crossed where the raw physical differences between the two are going to override a lot of the technical disadvantages, to an extent that the MMA guy may well lose. Dudes out here thinking theres no chance a guy like Paddy Pimblett could ever lose a fight to some giant Samoan rugby monster lol. Its sad because MMA was meant to be a no bullshido zone compared to TMAs but then youve got people thinking 125lbs men and WOMEN are completely untouchable in fights regardless of the size, strength etc of their opponents just because they trained MMA.
 
tastaylvr said:
How will an untrained person initiate grappling? What will this untrained person do?? How will he start the exchange?

How will a person who doesn't know how to fight actually hit a punch? Why do you act like hitting a punch accurately is easy? Landing strikes is difficult vs people who don't want to get hit. Now imagine a person who can't strike vs someone who dodges strikes for a living..
Click to expand...

What I was trying to say was why is the guy labelled as a "200lbs boxer" not throwing punches? why did he willingly go straight into grappling range with the grappler?

Do you really think an actual real fight between those two would play out like that?
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
Lol a lot of MMA fighters barely punch and kick with proper mechanics. Woodley used to lift his rear foot fully off the floor when throwing his right hand and yet he was one of the biggest punchers ever at 170 because of his raw athleticism and natural ability to generate impact. Imagine seriously thinking a lot of NFL dudes cant fucking crack.

If we are talking 155 and below vs HW sized rugby/NFL players, no it isnt just down to punchers chance. At that point the threshold has been crossed where the raw physical differences between the two are going to override a lot of the technical disadvantages, to an extent that the MMA guy may well lose. Dudes out here thinking theres no chance a guy like Paddy Pimblett could ever lose a fight to some giant Samoan rugby monster lol. Its sad because MMA was meant to be a no bullshido zone compared to TMAs but then youve got people thinking 125lbs men and WOMEN are completely untouchable in fights regardless of the size, strength etc of their opponents just because they trained MMA.
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Paddy struggles against other 155lbs men lol hes not the one to do this challenge...

T.S is talking about Elite smaller fighters vs untrained footballers...


Like Khabib...


Power doesnt override every technical skill... It helps some cases and in others it hurts..if you dont know the techniques power can actually make it worse... example trying to power out of a armbar can actually snap ur shit quicker... Trying to hulk out of a choke will just make u sleep quicker..


Not to mention , getting punched and kicked isnt something people outside of martial arts or fighting are use to experiencing...

In the famous words of mike tyson " everyone has a game plan till they get punched in the mouth ". ... Getting hit for real by someone who knows what their doing often makes untrained people think twice about fighting ...

Again the Gracie's proved this with just BJJ not even MMA years ago ..

 
Paolo Delutis said:
Paddy struggles against other 155lbs men lol hes not the one to do this challenge...

T.S is talking about Elite smaller fighters vs untrained footballers...


Like Khabib...


Power doesnt override every technical skill... It helps some cases and in others it hurts..if you dont know the techniques power can actually make it worse... example trying to power out of a armbar can actually snap ur shit quicker... Trying to hulk out of a choke will just make u sleep quicker..


Not to mention , getting punched and kicked isnt something people outside of martial arts or fighting are use to experiencing...

In the famous words of mike tyson " everyone has a game plan till they get punched in the mouth ". ... Getting hit for real by someone who knows what their doing often makes untrained people think twice about fighting ...

Again the Gracie's proved this with just BJJ not even MMA years ago ..

Click to expand...


I'd favour big dominant wrestler types like Islam or Khabib to beat a HW NFL/rugby guy most of the time but plenty of 155'ers would be vulnerable. I think 170 is the threshold where the fighters start getting big, strong and powerful enough as standard to be able to handle pretty much anyone.

Those NFL and rugby guys are extremely athletic in addition to being big and strong, its not like its just some random fatty or a bodybuilder who can barely move. They're also conditioned to take heavy impacts and physical punishment way beyond what some 155 or lower MMA guy can dish out. If you're used to having potentially multiple HW sized guys running into you at 20mph you're probably not gonna be phased by Sean O Malley punching and kicking you.

Btw i'm not one of these "A level athletes" guys at all. I actually think people downplay the quality of MMA athletes etc. But then people also often go too far in the other direction thinking that fighting is some kind of impossible rocket science and that simply being trained can make some 5'4 140lb dude practically invincible. Its not glamourous or nice to accept it but at the end of the day size, strength, power, athleticism etc are major factors in a fight.
 
Dana's Moonface said:
I know for 100% that a former European boxing champion who fought for a world title was smashed by a 240lb bodybuilder and apparently it wasn't pretty

OK he had no grappling, but being outweighed by 100 odd pounds did him no favours once the guy got close

Obviously he had no grappling, but but being a pro fighter isn't a guarantee, especially for non mma fighters
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That shows why our lord and savior Jon Jones is truly the GOAT. Thor may beat Conor and Khabib, but Jones would decapitate all 3 of them in one minute. He would also easily take down and choke out the European boxing champion, and then use leg kicks and jabs to gas out the 240 lb bodybuilder before finishing him off.

He would then proceed to go to Church and pray for their families
 
TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle said:
I'd favour big dominant wrestler types like Islam or Khabib to beat a HW NFL/rugby guy most of the time but plenty of 155'ers would be vulnerable. I think 170 is the threshold where the fighters start getting big, strong and powerful enough as standard to be able to handle pretty much anyone.

Those NFL and rugby guys are extremely athletic in addition to being big and strong, its not like its just some random fatty or a bodybuilder who can barely move. They're also conditioned to take heavy impacts and physical punishment way beyond what some 155 or lower MMA guy can dish out. If you're used to having potentially multiple HW sized guys running into you at 20mph you're probably not gonna be phased by Sean O Malley punching and kicking you.

Btw i'm not one of these "A level athletes" guys at all. I actually think people downplay the quality of MMA athletes etc. But then people also often go too far in the other direction thinking that fighting is some kind of impossible rocket science and that simply being trained can make some 5'4 140lb dude practically invincible. Its not glamourous or nice to accept it but at the end of the day size, strength, power, athleticism etc are major factors in a fight.
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Your argument is that they will grab them and it's over? jfc lol what a fucking stupid argument

strength and speed are only relevant if they know how to use it genius
 
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