Illegal streams of UFC PPVs potentially costing fighters millions in payouts per PPV

[chinarice]

/thread.

They have to be completely retarded to believe that their current model of quality decreasing/price increasing is going to prevent streaming. I've been saying for years that they're best solution is offering some kind of fan package that includes all the annual PPVs for a discounting rate (25%less for example) or go a step further and have a monthly subscription like WWE that includes all content including PPVs

So simple yet the concept is lost on so many. PPV model has been dead for at least a decade. Cool, every once in a blue moon, you get good PPV numbers... 1 out of every 50-100 events.

They don't even need to try now. ESPN paid them a flat rate of what came out to 500k PPV buys per event or some nonsense. They made out like bandits on that deal

 

[Crocop42]

Without illegal streaming the cost barrier to entry would be far too high, UFC would never make new fans. It would die without free streams with its current ppv model.

It’s astonishing UFC doesn’t realize this and offer a fight pass+ ~$20 a month package which includes all the fight nights and the “ppv” that month

They’d make $240 a year off a fan, instead of literally 0 like they are now on most of their fans from their PPV sales

I'm absolutely baffled by this as well. They can sell a bundle of their product for a reasonable price and I think people would actually buy it. But, to do an ESPN+ PPV at 79.99 plus what your paying for ESPN+ and you've spent $90, in 3 fights you want to see.

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

What's next... complaining that people get together with friends or family to watch the fights instead of each one paying $79.

 

[Mga223]

Right my friends brother's cousin only streams. He says that he won't pay for lack luster product with a bloated price. He might pay for an event if it's worth of buying but it's been a long time since that happened. Also at 80 bucks they likely will never have an event worth that price.

$80 event is legit 5 title fights on the main card.

 

[Tito Tapped]

When I want to support a fighter I find their website/store and get something from them directly. I figured that's better than them getting .05 cents of my PPV purchase anyways. Buying PPV's is more about supporting the "UFC" and that'll never happen from me now that goof is slapping women and facing zero consequences.

 

[Chael_Sonnen]

I hate this conversation sir, it's like nobody wants to open their damn eyes and see it all for what it is.
The fact that sponsorships were taken from the fighters, and then the entire cage is covered in sponsorships shortly after should say it all.

Also, guys won't get more money until they grow collective balls and get a union started, because they've given up an awful lot that won't come back without a fight.

They've lost out on individuality, money, decent contracts etc etc etc.

Oh well, what do I know I have only been watching from day one sir lol.

Yep I agree on all points. Fighters desperately need a union, but I don't see it happening any time soon sadly.

It's also sad how so many fans run with narratives counter to fighter pay, saying that they are paid a fair amount. When you look at the revenue split in UFC compared to other major sports its clear the fighters are underpaid by a significant margin.

 

[Eric Silva 2.0]

NBA isn't direct 1 on 1 competition, very different mind-set.

Also, it was a regulatory nightmare when fighters had their own sponsors.

Let me ask you this, do you think it is wise for the UFC to allow fighters to choose any sponsor that they want?
If it isn't wise, doesn't that mean the UFC will have to put in place a team to vet the sponsors that fighters want to have?

UFC has a lot of fighters, potentially that's a lot of contracts to review.
What happens if a fighter promoted a scam?

Also, here is the headache that UFC probably wants to avoid:
Brock Lesnar Bud Light Promo - Full UFC 100 Interview - YouTube

I don't doubt Bud-light could have sued due to that incident. Lesnar got chewed out for it, and you know why it happened? Because of a failure of regulatory/monitoring by UFC to ensure their fighters don't violate sponsor contracts.

You want a fighter to bring a dispute with their sponsor on the mic like Lesnar did?

Remember how Moicano said "he wants money?", what happens if Moicano says "Moicano wants money and budlight don't pay sh*t so drink Blue Moon", you think UFC wants to be part of a lawsuit between Moicano and budlight?

What happens if sponsors start requiring shout-outs in their contracts? UFC going to review all the contracts between each fighter and sponsor to make sure the requirements are acceptable?

Is UFC going to start drafting their own contracts related to what type of a contract a fighter can have with a sponsor? It is a regulatory nightmare. You will need a team of lawyers in place to manage it.

Illegal streams of UFC PPVs potentially costing UFC/Endeavor/Dana millions in PPV revenue
There, I fixed the title of the thread for you.

 

[StonedLemur]

Yep I agree on all points. Fighters desperately need a union, but I don't see it happening any time soon sadly.

It's also sad how so many fans run with narratives counter to fighter pay, saying that they are paid a fair amount. When you look at the revenue split in UFC compared to other major sports its clear the fighters are underpaid by a significant margin.

Yeah we're not even close to other revenue splits sir.
Fans saying its fair only emboldens the UFC.

Oh well, at least we know what's up lol

 

[Talibankocken]

Yeah, it's not really the fighters that get PPV cuts that's the issue when it comes to fighter pay so this is kinda irrelevant.

Also, when the UFC's margin has been growing for every year and was at over 50% in 2021, how do they expect me to believe that illegal streaming has a direct effect on general fighter pay? A rarted monkey could figure out that the only numbers that would change would be revenue and margin, while the fighter payout post would remain unchanged.

 

[Pressure Project]

If you people would stop buying made in China products maybe I could be making $60 an hour like we used to here in the US.

Cry more.

 

[Ozze]

100+ million? How do they get to such a number?

That would mean that something like 1 in every 6.000 adults would be watching the fight.
I find that highly unlikely.

 

[TheTickG]

I don't know how many people illegally stream PPVs but there is a estimate that 100 million+ people illegally watched Mayweather vs McGregor. Mayweather-McGregor fight most pirated in history (yahoo.com)

Given, that the amount of PPV buys for Mayweather McGregor did around 5 million, you could try to apply a 20X multiple to amount of illegal streams.

That's a lot of money left off the table, even if UFC fighters are only getting 15%-20% of revenue, having revenue jump by increasing PPV buys by that much would substantially increase PPV buy.

Obviously, not all illegal streamers will buy the PPV, so it's hard to determine how many will pay, but I'd bet it'd be enough people to make a dent in fighter pay.

How much do you think illegal streams are costing fighters in terms of their share of the revenue?

If all illegal streams stopped, do you think fighters would at least double their pay?

I imagine most people here that are complaining about the UFC, Dana, and fighter pay are also doing illegal streaming.

 

[empsim]

The assumption that all pirates would pay for the product if they couldn't get it for free has always been silly.

Maybe like 5-10%.

 

[Doughie99]

So you think everyone should illegally stream so the UFC can just go out of business? A free model with just ads would never work.

look, you are wrong about this.
The UFC is NOT dependent on PPV revenue to survive as a company. If PPV revenue disappeared it would be a revenue loss, but nothing more than that. UFC gets huge money from ESPN and many many other sources.

Plus MANY countries do not have PPV-to-buy available. UFC do licensing deals with overseasTV networks and it's a fixed monthly or annual price for their consumers. The consumers in those countries sign up for the CableTV provider, and the UFC programs are often INCLUDED. So no option to buy or not to buy a PPV in MOST countries! Most of europe, for eg, is like this I believe.

Also... US$80 per PPV is laughably high. There are generally only FIVE fights on the Main card (*the PPV bit) and 80dollars for 5 fights is ridiculous. They are pricing themselves out of the market and I heard that pricing is more likely an ESPN decision (though am not 100% sure who actually decides pricing).

You seem to be alleging that the poor UFC are going to go out of business due to some illegal streamers. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are just a greedy company, charging *astronomically high* ticket prices for almost every non-APEX venue, masses of corporate sponsors paying large amounts, guaranteed massive income from ESPN, guaranteed massive income from their Crypto.com sponsor, overpriced merchandize, and paying a paltry 18% of revenues for their fighter pay because they are more or less a monopoly.
They don't WANT their fighters to have private sponsorship as they WANT to keep their fighters POOR and DESPERATE and so they can control their fighters better. And largely, they achieve exactly that. (80% of fighters).

Get off your soapbox pal, it ain't working.
- and stop alleging the UFC is gonna go out of business due to streamers.
They have MASSIVE annual profits and WME/IMG and Disney are very happy I am sure. so ....you are wrong. End of.

and you do sound like you're a plant on Sherdog forums. No idea who you're working for but you are very very new here and your posts are suspicious let's put it that way.

 

[chinarice]

I imagine most people here that are complaining about the UFC, Dana, and fighter pay are also doing illegal streaming.

I stream tons of things yet only the UFC fighters of all the things I stream are the ones grotesquely underpaid.

Yeah, streamers are the problem.... from 4 billion to 8 billion with 0 pay increase. Yeah, streamers are the problem....

Maybe they should remove themselves from the 90s and try something other than charging 90+ dollars for every PPV and stacking the card with 90% unknowns.

 

[Ramon Antonio]

I'm not going to pay for a product that has 10000 ads on it.

 

[613MMAfan]

People don't seem to understand the point that the issue is with the percentage of revenue the fighters are paid. Even if everyone who streamed illegally bought all the ppvs and revenue went way up and fighters were paid a lot more people would still have an issue with fighter pay if the percentage was still so low.

Also, not everyone who streams illegally would pay for a ppv if they couldn't find an illegal stream. Some people actually can't afford to pay 70$ a month on a ufc ppv when they are already barely able to pay for the necessities.

 

[Street Bishop]

I would have no problem buying them at a reasonable price point. $80 on top of having to pay for ESPN+ is fucking ludicrous.

 

[ferrisjso]

This thread is gaslighting tbh.

And no fighter pay wouldn't increase at least not in proportion to the revenue gained because for profit companies try to maximize profit wherever possible. Fighter pay is cause profit motive and capitalism, it isn't peoples fault for not paying 70 dollars for a PPV. Profitable companies don't higher wages because they can't afford it they don't pay higher wages because they want to give that money to their shareholders.

 

[USA-man]

I think many of those illegal stream watchers wouldn’t pay for it if they didn’t access it free.

Your assumption that sales would increase to the number of illegal viewers is crazy wrong. Not only that but I imagine many of those viewers are in countries that can’t even buy it on PPV.

Also would decrease the popularity of the event, less ppl watching, less ppl familiar with the fighters, less ability for fighters to be known and market themselves with outside advertisers, less social media interaction, the less social media presence for the event, the less advertising revenue....illegal viewers are holding the ufc up and benefit the fighters.