I'm sorry, Jones is nowhere near the GOAT level

SouthpawSouthernFist said:
If you rewatch all his fights, of the guys he absolutely ran through, he was considerably bigger and stronger, or in much better shape, than all of them.

Chael, Machida, Shogun, Vitor, Rampage ... all blown up middleweights or burnt out lhws.

Guys near his size who were still in their primes, he looked average against. Decision against Rashad. Gus made him look like this, and Gus's career tanked after that fight:

jonesgus_original_crop_north.jpg


The DC wins, which were his best, he was in fact roided to the gills for. These don't count.

End of his career, post-pulsing pictogram, he looked very underwhelming. Limped past OSP, didn't get the finish on Anthony Smith even after a crushing illegal knee, didn't get the finish on one-legged Santos, arguably gifted a decision vs. Reyes (whose career also fell off a cliff after this fight).

If post-pulsing Jones had to fight some hard body stud like Rakic or Jiri, he'd get his head taken off.

Jones is a fringe top 10 all time, but only because of an extremely weak division. If the division had been filled with guys like Rumble, Rakic, Jiri, and the like in the post-USADA era, he would have gotten his ass handed to him multiple times. Or got popped again. Instead he fought guys like Anthony Smith and an OSP on the downturn of his career.

Contrast this to DC who beat some very legit guys at the end of his career, including Black Beast, Rumble, Stipe, etc. He was more of a stud than Jones will ever be, picking up guys twice his size over his head and slamming them down like a crash test dummy.

I will say this loud and clear - Usman, Volk, Conor, Adesanya, Khabib, etc. have all surpassed Bones on the GOAT scale.
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I was with you all the way to end until you mentioned Conor as a goat...ruined your entire credibility.
 
Reapzz said:
I was with you all the way to end until you mentioned Conor as a goat...ruined your entire credibility.
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Multi-weight champ, never popped, beat the FW GOATs, destroyed LW champ, then fought Floyd Money May, successful whiskey business, career predictably dropped off (anyone in his position would have the same thing happen). That deserves at least top 5 GOAT.
 
SouthpawSouthernFist said:
Multi-weight champ, never popped, beat the FW GOATs, destroyed LW champ, then fought Floyd Money May, successful whiskey business, career predictably dropped off (anyone in his position would have the same thing happen). That deserves at least top 5 GOAT.
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Beat by Diaz in his prime.
Never defended.
Not drug tested currently(good way not to fail test.
 
SouthpawSouthernFist said:
I will say this loud and clear - Usman, Volk, Conor, Adesanya, Khabib, etc. have all surpassed Bones on the GOAT scale.
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I don't engage in P4P discussions, but Usman isn't the WW GOAT, Volk isn't the FW GOAT, McGregor isn't the FW or LW GOAT, but Adesanya is three wins away (at most) from surpassing Silva as MW GOAT.

Not only am I not a fan of Jones (evident by the thread I made on Jones' PED usage here), I also dislike him as a human being, but amongst the pre-USADA champions he's the LHW GOAT; I suppose you could argue Cormier as the post-USADA LHW GOAT, but he only has three top ten ranked wins at LHW in the post-USADA era (first Rumble fight was pre-USADA), so that's a very low bar to surpass.

SouthpawSouthernFist said:
Multi-weight champ, never popped, beat the FW GOATs, destroyed LW champ, then fought Floyd Money May, successful whiskey business, career predictably dropped off (anyone in his position would have the same thing happen). That deserves at least top 5 GOAT.
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Holloway wasn't a GOAT of anything when McGregor defeated him; Holloway took the fight on short notice, was injured, and wasn't even ranked in the Top 50 at the time (he was even coming off a loss to Bermudez). McGregor defeated Aldo, but he didn't inherit Aldo's FW legacy. McGregor also lost against journeyman Diaz who wasn't even training for a fight. And McGregor defeating Alvarez is as about as meaningful as GSP defeating Bisping.
 
SouthpawSouthernFist said:
If you rewatch all his fights, of the guys he absolutely ran through, he was considerably bigger and stronger, or in much better shape, than all of them.

Chael, Machida, Shogun, Vitor, Rampage ... all blown up middleweights or burnt out lhws.

Guys near his size who were still in their primes, he looked average against. Decision against Rashad. Gus made him look like this, and Gus's career tanked after that fight:

jonesgus_original_crop_north.jpg


The DC wins, which were his best, he was in fact roided to the gills for. These don't count.

End of his career, post-pulsing pictogram, he looked very underwhelming. Limped past OSP, didn't get the finish on Anthony Smith even after a crushing illegal knee, didn't get the finish on one-legged Santos, arguably gifted a decision vs. Reyes (whose career also fell off a cliff after this fight).

If post-pulsing Jones had to fight some hard body stud like Rakic or Jiri, he'd get his head taken off.

Jones is a fringe top 10 all time, but only because of an extremely weak division. If the division had been filled with guys like Rumble, Rakic, Jiri, and the like in the post-USADA era, he would have gotten his ass handed to him multiple times. Or got popped again. Instead he fought guys like Anthony Smith and an OSP on the downturn of his career.

Contrast this to DC who beat some very legit guys at the end of his career, including Black Beast, Rumble, Stipe, etc. He was more of a stud than Jones will ever be, picking up guys twice his size over his head and slamming them down like a crash test dummy.

I will say this loud and clear - Usman, Volk, Conor, Adesanya, Khabib, etc. have all surpassed Bones on the GOAT scale.
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“Post-pulsing” jones had similar m3 levels as “roided to the gills” jones. Don’t let facts get in the way though.
 
TS is really trying to argue that a guy with over 2x less title wins, more than 4x as many title losses, 2 losses to the guy head to head, AND a 3rd press conference brawl loss, is the greater fighter.

Never change Sherdog.
 
acannxr said:
I don't engage in P4P discussions, but Usman isn't the WW GOAT, Volk isn't the FW GOAT, McGregor isn't the FW or LW GOAT, but Adesanya is three wins away (at most) from surpassing Silva as MW GOAT.

Not only am I not a fan of Jones (evident by the thread I made on Jones' PED usage here), I also dislike him as a human being, but amongst the pre-USADA champions he's the LHW GOAT; I suppose you could argue Cormier as the post-USADA LHW GOAT, but he only has three top ten ranked wins at LHW in the post-USADA era (first Rumble fight was pre-USADA), so that's a very low bar to surpass.


Holloway wasn't a GOAT of anything when McGregor defeated him; Holloway took the fight on short notice, was injured, and wasn't even ranked in the Top 50 at the time (he was even coming off a loss to Bermudez). McGregor defeated Aldo, but he didn't inherit Aldo's FW legacy. McGregor also lost against journeyman Diaz who wasn't even training for a fight. And McGregor defeating Alvarez is as about as meaningful as GSP defeating Bisping.
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Alvarez was a legit champ, beat RDA and Gaethje. Don't try to besmirch him like that.
 
SouthpawSouthernFist said:
If you rewatch all his fights, of the guys he absolutely ran through, he was considerably bigger and stronger, or in much better shape, than all of them.

Chael, Machida, Shogun, Vitor, Rampage ... all blown up middleweights or burnt out lhws.

Guys near his size who were still in their primes, he looked average against. Decision against Rashad. Gus made him look like this, and Gus's career tanked after that fight:

jonesgus_original_crop_north.jpg


The DC wins, which were his best, he was in fact roided to the gills for. These don't count.

End of his career, post-pulsing pictogram, he looked very underwhelming. Limped past OSP, didn't get the finish on Anthony Smith even after a crushing illegal knee, didn't get the finish on one-legged Santos, arguably gifted a decision vs. Reyes (whose career also fell off a cliff after this fight).

If post-pulsing Jones had to fight some hard body stud like Rakic or Jiri, he'd get his head taken off.

Jones is a fringe top 10 all time, but only because of an extremely weak division. If the division had been filled with guys like Rumble, Rakic, Jiri, and the like in the post-USADA era, he would have gotten his ass handed to him multiple times. Or got popped again. Instead he fought guys like Anthony Smith and an OSP on the downturn of his career.

Contrast this to DC who beat some very legit guys at the end of his career, including Black Beast, Rumble, Stipe, etc. He was more of a stud than Jones will ever be, picking up guys twice his size over his head and slamming them down like a crash test dummy.

I will say this loud and clear - Usman, Volk, Conor, Adesanya, Khabib, etc. have all surpassed Bones on the GOAT scale.
Click to expand...

Haters can scream all they want, it doesn't make it a reality.
Usman, Conor, Volk, Israel or Khabib have no prayer comparing with what Jon did.

Love him or hate him, Jon is on SIlva, GSP and Fedor level. Whether he is above them or not is immaterial and irrelevant, but he is at that level.

Denying reality does not help you one bit.
 
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SouthpawSouthernFist said:
He popped in the DC fights. Don't complain to me, complain to the commission or daddy Dana.
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He popped for a low testosterone level, which suggest PED use/masking, and then he popped for "picograms" of a tertiary metabolite of Turinabol, which says he either took it some time, possibly a long time ago, or took a tainted product.

He paid a price for possible PED use, but there's nothing to suggest "roided to the gills."

For example, most people have a 1:1 Testosterone to Epitestosterone level. Athletes are given a pretty wide margin of variance, with 6:1 being the threshold for failure. When Overeem failed, his ration was 14:1. THAT is "roided to the gills."

When you try and claim the same for Jones and what he got popped for, you just undercut your own credibility with that hyperbolic language.

That would be kind of like claiming, oh, I don't know, that Shogun, WHO WAS THE DEFENDING LHW CHAMP WHEN HE FOUGHT JONES, was some kind of burned-out bum.
 
SouthpawSouthernFist said:
If you rewatch all his fights, of the guys he absolutely ran through, he was considerably bigger and stronger, or in much better shape, than all of them.

Chael, Machida, Shogun, Vitor, Rampage ... all blown up middleweights or burnt out lhws.

Guys near his size who were still in their primes, he looked average against. Decision against Rashad. Gus made him look like this, and Gus's career tanked after that fight:

jonesgus_original_crop_north.jpg


The DC wins, which were his best, he was in fact roided to the gills for. These don't count.

End of his career, post-pulsing pictogram, he looked very underwhelming. Limped past OSP, didn't get the finish on Anthony Smith even after a crushing illegal knee, didn't get the finish on one-legged Santos, arguably gifted a decision vs. Reyes (whose career also fell off a cliff after this fight).

If post-pulsing Jones had to fight some hard body stud like Rakic or Jiri, he'd get his head taken off.

Jones is a fringe top 10 all time, but only because of an extremely weak division. If the division had been filled with guys like Rumble, Rakic, Jiri, and the like in the post-USADA era, he would have gotten his ass handed to him multiple times. Or got popped again. Instead he fought guys like Anthony Smith and an OSP on the downturn of his career.

Contrast this to DC who beat some very legit guys at the end of his career, including Black Beast, Rumble, Stipe, etc. He was more of a stud than Jones will ever be, picking up guys twice his size over his head and slamming them down like a crash test dummy.

I will say this loud and clear - Usman, Volk, Conor, Adesanya, Khabib, etc. have all surpassed Bones on the GOAT scale.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah all these guys have such stellar resumes by comparison..... lol Jones legit poos on these guys' resumes.
 
fzoid4454 said:
He popped for a low testosterone level, which suggest PED use/masking, and then he popped for "picograms" of a tertiary metabolite of Turinabol, which says he either took it some time, possibly a long time ago, or took a tainted product.

He paid a price for possible PED use, but there's nothing to suggest "roided to the gills."

For example, most people have a 1:1 Testosterone to Epitestosterone level. Athletes are given a pretty wide margin of variance, with 6:1 being the threshold for failure. When Overeem failed, his ration was 14:1. THAT is "roided to the gills."

When you try and claim the same for Jones and what he got popped for, you just undercut your own credibility with that hyperbolic language.

That would be kind of like claiming, oh, I don't know, that Shogun, WHO WAS THE DEFENDING LHW CHAMP WHEN HE FOUGHT JONES, was some kind of burned-out bum.
Click to expand...

That's misinterpreting the results. Steroid testing is not done to judge levels of being roided up. It's just looking any indicators for PED usage. It's a + or - test result.

He popped. He was taking PEDs at one point. That's it.

You are not educated enough to predict level of performance advantage using some blood markers, you give this away by trying to make the point with a single data point to back up your claim.

You need to slow your role and accept the fact that Johnny boy popped for roids twice, and after he stopped roiding, his athletic performance took a nose dive.
 
I love Jones, but I agree he is not top 3 goat. He will need to beat some guys a weightclass up to be considered top 3. if he beats a top HW, he vill pass GSP for the no 3 spot.
 
Jon Jones is the greatest P4P MMA fighter of all time

Closely followed by Fedor
 
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