Is a submission wrestler equally conditioned/strong as a freestyle wrestler?

[spacetime]

Hi,

Are submission wrestlers of the same physique/conditioning, strenght as the freestyle or greco-roman wrestlers? Further, do they train takedowns more than BJJ guys, keeping true to their wrestling nature?

If yes, isn't then submission wrestling the best of both worlds and superior to Bjj (gi or no gi)?

The only trumph card a freestyle or Greco roman wrestler has on a grappler is strenght, but if that's equal for a SW, then it surely is the optimal system, even better than BJJ?

 

[RTD1]

 

[spacetime]

Bjj guys can sometimes be very skinny, lack training in takedowns (start at knee level, since that is their competition format) thus lacking that aspect.

My question is if submission wrestlers are identically trained to wrestlers in the conditioning aspect, or if they are skinny grapplers.

 

[ShinkanPo]

I think submission wrestler is a blanket term

 

[j123]

Depends on the sub grappler. Its pretty vague, some have more wrestling background, while others are more bjj-esque. Either way, the high level guys are well conditioned, regardless of discipline.

 

[spacetime]

Depends on the sub grappler. Its pretty vague, some have more wrestling background, while others are more bjj-esque. Either way, the high level guys are well conditioned, regardless of discipline.

I am talking about the actual training in submission wrestling, compared to no gi BJJ. And if a submission wrestler is comparable to that of a freestyle wrestler in strenght/takedown skills.

 

[bubkusjones]

Bjj guys can sometimes be very skinny, lack training in takedowns (start at knee level, since that is their competition format) thus lacking that aspect.

My question is if submission wrestlers are identically trained to wrestlers in the conditioning aspect, or if they are skinny grapplers.

I've never seen a BJJ tournament that starts on the knees.

 

[j123]

I am talking about the actual training in submission wrestling, compared to no gi BJJ. And if a submission wrestler is comparable to that of a freestyle wrestler in strenght/takedown skills.

?

Sub wrestling/grappling is no-gi bjj

 

[spacetime]

?

Sub wrestling/grappling is no-gi bjj

Techniques are the same, yes, but I was under the impression that the training (what each emphasise) is different. Why else have two labels for one and the same thing?

 

[Rjay]

Techniques are the same, yes, but I was under the impression that the training (what each emphasise) is different. Why else have two labels for one and the same thing?

why is corn also called maize

mysteries of the universe

 

[spacetime]

why is corn also called maize

mysteries of the universe

Why call grappling wrestling

 

[sb413197]

You are trying to draw clear lines between them. There aren't clear lines. A LOT of BJJ guys have highschool or collegiate wrestling backgrounds; some even do both sports. Submission grappling tends to be dominated by BJJ players although a lot have wrestling backgrounds. Even "pure" BJJ players (there is no such thing but whatever) - guys without other backgrounds - will frequently cross-train in Judo and wrestling. Many BJJ competition teams will train starting standing up.

 

[spacetime]

You are trying to draw clear lines between them. There aren't clear lines. A LOT of BJJ guys have highschool or collegiate wrestling backgrounds; some even do both sports. Submission grappling tends to be dominated by BJJ players although a lot have wrestling backgrounds. Even "pure" BJJ players (there is no such thing but whatever) - guys without other backgrounds - will frequently cross-train in Judo and wrestling. Many BJJ competition teams will train starting standing up.

There is no clear definition of BJJ? Of course there is. A black belt in BJJ is the same for everyone.

 

[SFCFighter]

There are very few legitimate 'submission wrestling' schools out there

The ones that exist do not produce athletes anywhere near as well conditioned or physically impressive as top freestyle and greco-roman wrestlers

Strength and conditioning is not at all the only 'trump card' wrestlers have over grapplers. You clearly don't do either.

 

[SFCFighter]

Combat sports isn't an RPG bro, you don't pick classes or are locked into certain roles or attributes.

Just find a gym and train, get off your computer.

 

[TheGZA]

Combat sports isn't an RPG bro, you don't pick classes or are locked into certain roles or attributes.

If you call it Sub-Wrestling, you get +1 to strength and constitution. NO-GI gets +1 to dexterity and intelligence. I'd expect you to have a better handle on this.

 

[Kirra]

Wrestling/BJJ isn't what makes people strong/conditioned for the most part. Strength and conditioning work does.

Your average wrestler is doing way more S&C work than your average BJJ guy from what I've seen.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Your average freestyle and greco wrestler is doing very little strength and conditioning outside of the wrestling room when looking at the worlds population of elite level Olympic style wrestlers.

Your average submission fighter isnt doing it either. Some will do it, most will not.

Your average college wrestler is doing S&C both inside the room and in a weight lifting capacity as well. They are going to be generally stronger than all three.

Now, you put the strongest college wrestler in a gi on the mats with an elite blackbelt and he is going to get overpowered in many different positions. He might be overall stronger, but he is going to get overpowered in a lot of positions.

Take it even farther: Even though a college wrestler is going to be generally stronger than a greco wrestler, and the sports are somewhat similiar, there are spots where relatively weak greco wrestler are going to straight fucking bull horse a college wrestler with ease. No problems.

It comes down to reps, hours, and specific training in certain positions. Go grab the biggest tatted up dipshit military guy at your local crossfit, put him on the mat, and he will get overpowered in certain positions by teenagers with specific training and a good handle on positioning.

 

[yetanother]

Your average freestyle and greco wrestler is doing very little strength and conditioning outside of the wrestling room when looking at the worlds population of elite level Olympic style wrestlers.

Is that country specific?
The Polish greco wrestlers (2 of them olympians) we shared the gym with did loads of S&C and weight lifting.

 

[spacetime]

If you call it Sub-Wrestling, you get +1 to strength and constitution. NO-GI gets +1 to dexterity and intelligence. I'd expect you to have a better handle on this.

Finally someone who knows some shit. May I ask why there is a neccesary trade off in the case of Sub-Wrestling? I have no insight into grappling, I am a striker.