^Was going to say the above but would disagree with one point.This is a myth that will not die, but I can assure he was not.
Sonnen was a good, but not great collegiate wrestler. Out of four yeas of eligibility, he made it to the NCAA tournament once, and made it to All American status with an 8th place finish - that is, the lowest spot of which you can be bestowed an All American.
Being a Division I wrestler makes you good, and getting to the NCAA tournament even once is also impressive, but the UFC is populated with highly credentialed wrestlers. Among his peers he isn't anything special in that regard.
In his prime though considering the field of opponents he was in, he was one of the better MMA adapted wrestlers. That is also predicated on good timing, because I don't think there is any version of Sonnen that beats any version of guys like Weidman and Romero.
I don't think there is any version of Sonnen that beats any version of guys like Weidman and Romero.
The welterweight Weidman that fought Rockhold vs Sonnen that fought AS the first time would be a takedown + GnP clinic in Sonnen's favor.
^Was going to say the above but would disagree with one point.
Chael imo was not a strong MMA wrestler and was just a strong wrestler in a division where that was enough.
To be a strong MMA wrestler or to adapt your wrestling to MMA you must also have good BJJ defense. Just like in old school MMA where a dominant skill could get you by Chael got by until he met anyone with high level subs. Then he was losing most times and always the same way. In any division outside MW during the years of his prime a wrestler like Chael with such poor sub defense compared to his other skills would struggle to ever make the top 10. They would just keep getting knocked back down as they matched up against guys with decent subs to exploit them.
That is a pipe dream.
Sonnen has been submitted NINE times. Weidman wouldn't just out grapple him, he would put him away without much trouble.
Weidman sure showed Rockhold how dangerous he is off his back.
Rockhold is an order of magnitude better submission grappler and finisher then Chael Sonnen.
Perhaps you were unaware, but Rockhold was literally a world champion in the Gi as a purple belt in jiu-jitsu. He was an elite grappler that learned how to kickbox, not the other way around.
Both Weidman and Rockhold would submit any version of Chael Sonne, just like the nine other guys who did.
Weidman is such a better MMA wrestler and grappler than Chael though. He’s much more likely to put Chael on his back than the other war around.The welterweight Weidman that fought Rockhold vs Sonnen that fought AS the first time would be a takedown + GnP clinic in Sonnen's favor.
Yup.Fair point I would agree with, but I consider that 'MMA adapted grappler' where in this case I'm talking about the context of wrestling.
No doubt about it, Sonnen had a soft spot in regards to submission losses.
Does it matter? A wrestling pedigree doesn’t mean much in MMA. What was GSP’s wrestling background?
Conversely guys like Woodley, Hendricks and Gaethje who were great wrestlers don’t use it all that much.
Explain beyond the Rockhold loss what makes you say that?Weidman can't grapple off his back. That much is obvious.
The welterweight that showed vs Rockhold and gassed after a round would be steamrolled by a prime Chael.
He had some of the nastiest guillotine ever in collegeWhat are the Bad Guy's wrestling credentials? Something crazy like Johnny Hendricks?I think he was one of the best wrestlers in college history.