Is Military Hand to Hand combat more efficient than MMA?

[fluffball]

What?

They put blanks in M16s and then have a laser attached to the barrel. If you shoot an enemy it makes a loud beep to let know you've/they've been hit, so you can use the actual weapon and hear deafening gun fire as you clear rooms in a house. Basically really fucking awesome lazer tag.

 

[maddog7]

They put blanks in M16s and then have a laser attached to the barrel. If you shoot an enemy it makes a loud beep to let know you've/they've been hit, so you can use the actual weapon and hear deafening gun fire as you clear rooms in a house. Basically really fucking awesome lazer tag.

That sounds great fun.
But do you really think this is a better preparation for a 'fist fight to the death' than Muay Thai?

 

[fluffball]

That sounds great fun.
But do you really think this is a better preparation for a 'fist fight to the death' than Muay Thai?

Ya absolutely. Obviously that's not the purpose of the drill, but self defense is not so much about techniques, it's about managing adrenaline and having the mindset to kill or survive rather than freeze because it's so alien to you.

MT is a great in between step. If you slap some random person in the mall they will likely freeze up and turn their back to you, and MT gets you out of that habit. But it doesn't get you into the habit of thinking about killing someone and realizing what happens if you fail. Most martial artists are utterly delusional when it comes to thinking about this stuff because it's very unlikely someone is going to follow you into the locked foyer of your apartment as you fumble for the mail key and hit you in the back of the head with a pipe. The people training MA are most likely in their twenties and their idea of self defense is some drunk guy hitting on their girlfriend.

I've had all sorts of weapons pulled on me, and 1 used against me, and MA training was not particularly relevant. I wasn't thinking about those knife defense I learned when I saw a 9 inch serrated blade. I know the military has done some really extensive studies of this stuff (On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society has some interesting stuff), and came to the same conclusion. H2H training doesn't need to be that in-depth, better to make the recruits miserable and stressed and force adrenaline dumps and physically fit and so on.

 

[maddog7]

Ya absolutely. Obviously that's not the purpose of the drill, but self defense is not so much about techniques, it's about managing adrenaline and having the mindset to kill or survive rather than freeze because it's so alien to you.

MT is a great in between step. If you slap some random person in the mall they will likely freeze up and turn their back to you, and MT gets you out of that habit. But it doesn't get you into the habit of thinking about killing someone and realizing what happens if you fail. Most martial artists are utterly delusional when it comes to thinking about this stuff because it's very unlikely someone is going to follow you into the locked foyer of your apartment as you fumble for the mail key and hit you in the back of the head with a pipe. The people training MA are most likely in their twenties and their idea of self defense is some drunk guy hitting on their girlfriend.

I've had all sorts of weapons pulled on me, and 1 used against me, and MA training was not particularly relevant. I wasn't thinking about those knife defense I learned when I saw a 9 inch serrated blade. I know the military has done some really extensive studies of this stuff (On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society has some interesting stuff), and came to the same conclusion. H2H training doesn't need to be that in-depth, better to make the recruits miserable and stressed and force adrenaline dumps and physically fit and so on.

Right, but do you think that 'Ranger' Stott would have killed Mark Kerr in the octagon if only BJM had told him "Alright, Soldier. This is to the death. Get him , killer!"



Yeah, I know. Technically Mark Kerr is a wrestler not a Muay Thai fighter but he practically MT'ed the Ranger into oblivion.

 

[rmongler]

Jab eyepoke numba one self defense technique, both Bruce Lee and Jon Jones agree!

 

[fluffball]

Right, but do you think that 'Ranger' Stott would have killed Mark Kerr in the octagon if only BJM had told him "Alright, Soldier. This is to the death. Get him , killer!"



Yeah, I know. Technically Mark Kerr is a wrestler not a Muay Thai fighter but he practically MT'ed the Ranger into oblivion.

I think you're actually proving my point here. Any down syndrome sufferer can throw a knee like that with no training, that's one of the reasons it's such an effective technique. There are other factors that are more important.

 

[TehGwarch]

I'm talking about self defense purposes, I know in MMA you can train most techniques to become effective and efficient but in H2HC some are to lethal to practice with sparring partner but gives a more realistic approach. With that being said in a street situation there are no rules which would feel more confident in using?

Learn "MMA" (in most people's case this is BJJ and Muay Thai or Kyokushin taken separately)

After a couple years of training you can look at some of that stuff and see if you can find something that interests you.

Take a seminar or watch youTube, you will be able to do it easily.

 

[aries]

More efficient? Depends what you mean by more efficient. Is it more efficient to finger jab someone in the eye like Jon Jones then it is to punch them in the face? Of course it is but there is no way to practice full contact eye jabbing. If military combatives give you the needed mental attitude to apply such deadly/dirty tactics then yes it more efficient but who would you bet on to win a fight in an anything goes fight Jon Jones or some combative trained marine?

 

[Brfighter7]

I have my black belt for the marines and it's a joke. They breeze over everything.

 

[TehGwarch]

I think you're actually proving my point here. Any down syndrome sufferer can throw a knee like that with no training, that's one of the reasons it's such an effective technique. There are other factors that are more important.

As a Kyokushin guy, hard not to chuckle at someone who gets KO'd by a knee to the body like that.

Anyway that's why combatives suck, it's more than "knowing things".