Is Whittaker past prime now?

Yes. He lost a fight so he is washed up, he was never really good and was never Dana Whites friend.
 
BowserJr said:
His 1st fight was very odd but it looked like he was just emotional with the shit talking Izzy did. After seeing the rematch which could've gone either way I think he proved that was the case.

This loss he seemed tired and slow immediately. He ate power shots from power hitters with 1 shot ko power like Romero and Cannonier but then he gets dropped by a hab from the guy that barely survived Brunson?

This reminds me of Silva getting dropped by Sonnen in their 1st fight
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He’s been at a high level for a really long time. Someone asked recently if he would decline soon and most of us said yes, he probably would. I agree that he didn’t look quite as strong and spry.

That being said, dominating a slightly diminished Whittaker is still really impressive.
 
kellier said:
Rob is only 32, he's clearly still in his prime. Went 25 min with Izzy last year (the only other person to beat him at MW in 9 yrs)

Does nobody consider that maybe Du Plessis is actually really good. He's 6-0 in the UFC now with 5 finishes. Its a possibility
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It’s both.
 
JustBleed69 said:
Damn, I had no idea. He looked a weight class bigger than Rob.
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He is enormous.
The man clearly eats his vegetables.

I was pretty shocked when I found out he fought WW in 2018.

He looks like he could hang at 205.
He looks a bigger to me than plenty of guys who fought 205 in UFC.

Shogun
Machida
Bisping
Cory Anderson
Alessio Sakara
Hendo

*All these guys are listed 6'1 as I recall.
 
His next fight will show if his chin is shot for good or if it was just a one off fight.
 
The tricky thing about this is you are discussing multiple moving variables

Peak abilities
Peak athletic age
Peak durability
Experience

And that is all going to yield varying effectiveness against changing competition.

So even though 2017-2018 Rob Whitaker was proven above the pack in a competive star packed era...

2023 Rob Whitaker who can't get a title shot and is 0-2 with the champ could theoretically be better than/beat 2018 Rob.

I would say he is likely very close to the best fighter he ever was, but due to damage, surgeries, 10 years in the uFC with a particularly high strength of schedule, 30+ fights and surely at least a handful of surgeries... he is likely ever so slightly on the decline of Peak ability/performance.


Peak abilities - close but slightly declining
Peak athletic age - yes
Peak durability - no
Experience - Peak

Performance relative to elite MW competition- past prime *
* and as such his results will likely fall short of looking like "prime" on paper.


Also, credit to Dricus. He has clearly got power and durability. It may be more a case of Dricus is that dangerous than Rob has slipped/diminished. Also, anyone can get punched in the face and hurt in MMa with 4 oz gloves and big boys throwing with "bad intentions."

Rob has convincingly been running the table against top 5 talent for 6 years and top 10 ranked guys for 8 years going back to Brad Tavares and Uriah Hall in 2015.

Rob could very well continue to beat top 5 guys for a few more years.
 
Probably, 33yo is when lots of fighters start to decline rapidly.
 
I feel like people are forgetting that even back in the day he was randomly getting injured left and right. They remember the fights with Romero and not the being pulled hours before a title defence against Gastelum because he randomly got a hernia and collapsed bowel.

His body's never been as strong as his will. Maybe his will just finally caught up to what his body's been telling him for years.
 
We'll see his next fight. It might have just been a styles clash. If he can't beat Izzy or DDP though, it's probably time to rethink things.
 
It looks like Whittaker is losing his speed fast, which is normal for a 32-year old athlete who had a lot of injuries. The question is will Whittaker continue fighting in his usual manner with quick blitzes and then moving back or will he adapt to new realities. We know he can find in a more traditional manner, as shown in the second Adesanya fight. Still he opted for his usual style against Du Plessis.

Probably the question is does Whittaker want to fight for 3, 4 more years and go down the Ferguson, Penn, etc. way or will he do 1, 2 more fights and call it a day while he is more or less on top (or very near the top). I'm pretty sure he can adapt to a new style that doesn't rely that much on speed, but we'll see if he'll do that or not.
 
kellier said:
Rob is only 32, he's clearly still in his prime. Went 25 min with Izzy last year (the only other person to beat him at MW in 9 yrs)

Does nobody consider that maybe Du Plessis is actually really good. He's 6-0 in the UFC now with 5 finishes. Its a possibility
Click to expand...

It's sherdog, no fighter is good. They only win because their opponents suck
 
He looked fine until he got smashed on the ground.
 
jeff7b9 said:
The tricky thing about this is you are discussing multiple moving variables

Peak abilities
Peak athletic age
Peak durability
Experience

And that is all going to yield varying effectiveness against changing competition.

So even though 2017-2018 Rob Whitaker was proven above the pack in a competive star packed era...

2023 Rob Whitaker who can't get a title shot and is 0-2 with the champ could theoretically be better than/beat 2018 Rob.

I would say he is likely very close to the best fighter he ever was, but due to damage, surgeries, 10 years in the uFC with a particularly high strength of schedule, 30+ fights and surely at least a handful of surgeries... he is likely ever so slightly on the decline of Peak ability/performance.


Peak abilities - close but slightly declining
Peak athletic age - yes
Peak durability - no
Experience - Peak

Performance relative to elite MW competition- past prime *
* and as such his results will likely fall short of looking like "prime" on paper.

Also, credit to Dricus. He has clearly got power and durability. It may be more a case of Dricus is that dangerous than Rob has slipped/diminished. Also, anyone can get punched in the face and hurt in MMa with 4 oz gloves and big boys throwing with "bad intentions."

Rob has convincingly been running the table against top 5 talent for 6 years and top 10 ranked guys for 8 years going back to Brad Tavares and Uriah Hall in 2015.

Rob could very well continue to beat top 5 guys for a few more years.
Click to expand...

Excellent assessment, but I feel it should be noted that Whittaker's ability to take damage changed significantly after the Romero fights (especially Romero 2).

Almost getting KO'd like 4 times in a single fight after a decade of high-level training/fighting is likely the straw that broke the camel's back - Whittaker showed so much heart to survive essentially two 10-8 rounds where Romero dropped him multiple times and just unloaded everything on him while he was basically out on his feet. That type of damage changes a fighter permanently, especially if it's at the tail-end of a career where they've been dishing it out far more often then they've been receiving it.

Even in the last fights he won (Cannonier/Gastelum/Vettori/Till), except for Vettori he hurt all those guys badly and they were still able to hurt him back badly at some point with a fraction of the offense. So he doesn't seem to have the same ability to take damage and he doesn't respond as well either (Romero 2 it made him bite down and break Romero's orbital with a head kick in the pocket, against Cannonier and now against DDP he was basically moving away trying to recover but far too slowly).

He just lacks the confidence to get in extended brawls; he used to absolute flourish in those spots, but I think Romero damaged the chin/shook his confidence and then Izzy cracked both permanently. Now he's tried to paper over this by turning into a mobile out-fighter that occasionally can blitz you, but he seems very concerned with not getting stuck in the pocket or countered, which means when it does happen his response seems flustered and panicked. And he's just not a great out-fighter, too much karate style in and out movement without enough variety of single strikes (and lack of building around the jab or low kick into layers).

That's one of those things most fighters never get back once they lose it (confidence in ability to absorb damage).
 
MommyBeast said:
Many think being in your prime means you only win, and when you lose you're out of your prime. You can still get your ass kicked in your prime. I don't think Whittaker is in his prime but last night's results have nothing to do with that
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That's a pretty wild prediction. I disagree. I think the fight would have been drastically different if the Robert we saw during his championship reign showed up. This is especially the case since Whittaker's style revolves around his quickness and cardio. He was quicker, more diverse and most importantly willing to brawl in the pocket if he had to. Du Plessis's sloppy striking becomes a bigger flaw in those situations.
 
MommyBeast said:
Many think being in your prime means you only win, and when you lose you're out of your prime. You can still get your ass kicked in your prime. I don't think Whittaker is in his prime but last night's results have nothing to do with that
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His 2 losses to Izzy were in his prime.

The latest loss was to a guy that almost dies vs Brunson and he got dropped by a jab
 
Brit_Brawler said:
This sub,
Fighter a is the best. Figher b has no chance.
Fighter b wins, Fighter a is out of their prime or was never that good.
Robs prime was not in question when. He was wooping Marvin and all the others besides adesanya
Click to expand...

No but obviously fighters decline and it becomes apparent over time.

I'm just calling it early. MYbe I'm wrong and he bounces back strong
 
World eater said:
Absolutely. It is the Sherdog way. As soon as you lose to an underdog, you are past your prime. Also, you were never that good. Neither is the guy who won, because he defeated an old, over the hill fighter. Is normal.
Click to expand...

There's a visible difference between this loss and the 2 to Izzy
 
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