is Wing Chun useful in MMA?

[Linds]

Isn't systema like combat sambo?

It's more like Alice in Wonderland. One pill makes you larger one pill makes you small. Punches to make you happy. Punches to make you think

 

[SummerStriker]

Actually I have a few years of systema training in and it is more like combat sambo with a lot of aikido principles. It did help me with my overall game a little bit. However, Sambo, BJJ, Muay Thai and boxing have helped much more, hell even fencing helped out my striking game a little. Systema taught me a few principles that I would have only learned if I had taken Aikido and krav maga. A lot depends on how realistic the instructor is too, and mine was about application.

I'll admit I have some negative opinions on combatives, Systema included. I'm sure a part of that is the fact that it is hard to find good training.

I've always thought that at its best, Systema was good for people who were already really good at fighting. As a list of ideas for people to mess with, like how to avoid attention while punching people in a crowd, it isn't bad if you can already beat people up. It seemed strange to worry about that though, if you don't know how to fight at all yet.

 

[Hotora86]

Good question, hopefully this is a good answer. Each of the core guards it highly optimized to a specific approach to fighting, so if you need to use a different approach you have a less ability to use it. Take Tiger and Mantis guards for example as they are good examples of opposite approaches. Tiger is built for delivering maximum striking force in each attack or defense almost entirely at the expense of speed. Mantis gives up power to maximize speed. So now you have to guards or structures optimized for different ways of fighting: the Slugger and the Swarmer.

A fighting from a pure Tiger guard, becuase it limits your ablity to fight with speed, forces you to learn how best use your power and forces you to learn to read your opponents attacks becuase you don't have the ability to guess wrong, and still block the actual attack. Mantis has the opposite issue, it can react late even initially miss read the attack and still successfully defend itself. However, it almost entirely lose the ability to get one shot stuns or disruptions so has to learn how to chain and throw fast combinations together to get the same effect.

Once you have developed skills at both extremes transitioning to a less optimize guard ,such as the standard boxing or kickboxing guard, gives you equal access to both skill sets. And if you happen to naturally gravitate to one or the other you understand how to adjust to best fit your needs.

Oh and finally it can be a lot fun to fight from the pure guards cus' looks really awesome.

I actually like that explanation. However, developing skills separately like that and then combining them again for "normal" kickboxing is taking the long route. It is a staple of many TMAs I think - they train in a "weird" way and struggle with real application in the beginning but after say 20 years of disciplined training their unorthodox skills can wreck most "normal" fighters (see Machida)... but that's exactly why I would NOT recommend TMAs to people whose goal is prizefighting - careers end after age 35 for pro fighters so almost no one has "20 years to spare" on training in such ways. 3 years of kickboxing often beats 10 years of Kung Fu (and other TMAs) when it comes to full-contact competition.

As a side note, when I had only 2 years of Karate and barely a few lessons of BJJ under my belt I had a sparring match (ammy MMA rules) with an Animal Kung Fu expert with over 8 years of experience in multiple styles... we fought to a draw.

We don't really use those names much either anymore. Historically those funny names served as short hand reminder about the purpose principle set's behind a technique, while not giving a way the "secret sauce" to any one not indoctrinated in to the school's culture.

I still do use some of the more amusing one's just becuase they are funny. How can you give up a name like "Octopus waves at Squid"? And yes there really is a technique called that.

LOL what does it look like?

 

[barnowl]

I actually like that explanation. However, developing skills separately like that and then combining them again for "normal" kickboxing is taking the long route. It is a staple of many TMAs I think - they train in a "weird" way and struggle with real application in the beginning but after say 20 years of disciplined training their unorthodox skills can wreck most "normal" fighters (see Machida)... but that's exactly why I would NOT recommend TMAs to people whose goal is prizefighting - careers end after age 35 for pro fighters so almost no one has "20 years to spare" on training in such ways. 3 years of kickboxing often beats 10 years of Kung Fu (and other TMAs) when it comes to full-contact competition.

Your are correct about it being the long way and, in our case at least, it is a bit deliberate. All of us at the higher levels will be very up front about it. It is also openly admitted that we can teaching train some to be combat effective in about 9 months. Not good or great, but effective like a 9 month boxer. So why do we still teach the long way to get there? Because the school is about more than teaching people how to fight. Our founder believed in creating "Benevolent People". We take the time to teach a "renaissance man" curriculum, which gives us the time to really study the 5 or so core approaches to fighting. It is a slow way to develop a fighter, but a good way to develop well "educated" trainers as you have the time to be sure the students really understand what they have learned.

As a style we discourage using it for "prize fighting", this is in partly becuase as a style we still hold to old Taoist principles, partly becuase of the goals of benevolence, and partly becuase there are indeed faster ways to get there. There is only one generation of Sifu's between me and the last full Taoist Grand Master of our style, so the old culture is still very strong. Instead we actively recommend joining an appropriate combat sport gym to compete in a combat sport. My sifu was golden gloves boxer, I was TKD competitor, 2 of my juniors do MMA, and 3 are Pro Wrestlers.
[/quote]

As a side note, when I had only 2 years of Karate and barely a few lessons of BJJ under my belt I had a sparring match (ammy MMA rules) with an Animal Kung Fu expert with over 8 years of experience in multiple styles... we fought to a draw.

Does not surprise me at all. To many schools and style have forgotten why they do things. And to many students never realize that were never taught the whole style, or are expect to expand it and learn how to apply what they are taught on there own time.

LOL what does it look like?

Lots of flailing an wrapping arms . It is counter to someone grabbing you from the rear by the upperarm to shoulder region to turn you around. As you are turned towards them you extend and sweep the grabbed side arm around in the direction of the turn high, do the same with off side hand about mid section level, setting up for a wrap around arm bar. While using which ever leg is free to move, to engage and jam the opponents closet leg.

Probably bad description, and only an average technique but like I said, becuase of the name I can't help put teach it.

 

[KarateStylist]

I actually like that explanation. However, developing skills separately like that and then combining them again for "normal" kickboxing is taking the long route. It is a staple of many TMAs I think - they train in a "weird" way and struggle with real application in the beginning but after say 20 years of disciplined training their unorthodox skills can wreck most "normal" fighters (see Machida)... 3 years of kickboxing often beats 10 years of Kung Fu (and other TMAs) when it comes to full-contact competition.

As a side note, when I had only 2 years of Karate and barely a few lessons of BJJ under my belt I had a sparring match (ammy MMA rules) with an Animal Kung Fu expert with over 8 years of experience in multiple styles... we fought to a draw.

LOL what does it look like?

DID HE (THE ANIMAL KUNG FU EXPERT) LOOK LIKE THIS GUY?

[YT]ZC5Y2sPCXB4[/YT]P.S. This guy looks and sounds like mi cousin....

EDIT: didn't someone just mention 'baby jesus.'

KarateStylist

 

[KarateStylist]

Anyway, it's all a moot point since it wasn't karate technique that defeated Randy Couture, it was Sensei Seagal technique.

And Seagal has turned into a Wing Chun man as seen in this video.



So clearly yes, Wing Chun DOES work in mma as it is the new base style of the maker of champions.

HERE'S A GOOD ANSWER----

Good question, hopefully this is a good answer. Each of the core guards it highly optimized to a specific approach to fighting, so if you need to use a different approach you have a less ability to use it. Take Tiger and Mantis guards for example as they are good examples of opposite approaches. Tiger is built for delivering maximum striking force in each attack or defense almost entirely at the expense of speed. Mantis gives up power to maximize speed. So now you have to guards or structures optimized for different ways of fighting: the Slugger and the Swarmer.
/ ---QuoteChop /
Oh and finally it can be a lot fun to fight from the pure guards cus' looks really awesome.

KarateStylist

 

[grapling101]

hi guys I've finally found a gym to train MMA and this is its timetable:

mondays: 1h MMA, 1h kickboxing
tuesdays: 1h BJJ, 1h wing chun
wednesdays: 1h MMA, 1h kickboxing
thursdays: 1h BJJ, 1h wing chun
fridays: 1h MMA, 1h kickboxing

I have time to go to all of them I'm in pretty good shape. my question is, should I do wing chun 2h a week or use those 2h for strength and conditioning? I don't know what really wing chun is, I think it is a traditional martial arts focused on striking and self defense. anyone can tell me more about this martial art and if it can be useful in MMA?

please no stupid answers.

All you have to do is ask Wanderlie Silva what he thought about that Straight Blast he was on the recieving end of in UFC 17.5 I think it was. That was right out of the WC hand book. I know the footwork was different but it was still WC and the scariest standup fighter of that day was KO'd by it.

 

[jonander50]

Anderson used some wc too i think

 

[kenpeters8]

Wing Chun is pure crap. Useless crap.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

Anderson used some wc too i think

You can find Silva learning some WC from Inosanto on YouTube somewhere. I wouldn't say that Silva knows it though. He looked a little bit lost.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

I studied some Wing Chun via Jun Fan Gung Fu for about 6 months--I know some would say that it is not pure WC and they are right. Now, I find that it helps with some of my knife fighting more than empty hands. WC does not have a lot of power. They throw mostly arm punches. Fighting is not a game of tag. They attack linearly heavily. You have to angle off.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Traditional martial arts not useful in mma

For fitness and self defence yes

Ip rip

 

[rmongler]

is this jonander guy searching through every single thread in the archive with WC in the op so he can bump them with one-liners?