Economy Japan slips into a recession and loses its spot as the world’s third-largest economy

[Fox by the Sea]

Wouldn't have thought "it's better to be richer than poorer" would be so controversial. But, again, it's easier to get poorer. So if that's your pleasure, go for it. Just don't impose it on everyone else.

that's obviously not what i was saying.
i'm saying sometimes you don't really need to have 600 million when you have 500.
you can relax.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Well, elemtenary schools here are now always till 15.00 with options to let your kids stay till 17.00.

Due to numerous reasons but I remember coming back home in second class at 12 or maybe 13.00 back then.

Not sure if they're going to school more in your country. What I am referring to is the decline of child labor. It used to be very common in America when the country was very poor (compared to now). As we've gotten richer as a society, there's been a huge decrease in child labor and a huge increase in retirement, along with shorter hours for working men. Women work more, though that trend stopped a while ago.

 

[Wetarmpits]

Not sure if they're going to school more in your country. What I am referring to is the decline of child labor. It used to be very common in America when the country was very poor (compared to now). As we've gotten richer as a society, there's been a huge decrease in child labor and a huge increase in retirement, along with shorter hours for working men. Women work more, though that trend stopped a while ago.

Of course. I'm talking about both parents working or single parent households needing to work that long. That's why they have those times now.

But yes, I agree partly on the general sentiment, most people live better lifes than compared. But I think that's down a lot to educational reasons and a more flexible job market that had to adjust in some ways to a more demnading workforce. Atleast in higher educational jobs.

 

[Jack V Savage]

that's obviously not what i was saying.
i'm saying sometimes you don't really need to have 600 million when you have 500.
you can relax.

How is it not what you're saying? Didn't you say a recession (i.e., the country getting poorer) is good and that growth (i.e., a country getting richer) is bad? We're not talking about a fabulously rich individual. A country has poor people and a majority of people near the middle.

 

[Yehudim]

if anything, Japan’s very gradual decline just shows that fears of population decline are overstated, and it probably isn’t worth it to import a bunch of rapists just so that they can consume things.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

How is it not what you're saying? Didn't you say a recession (i.e., the country getting poorer) is good and that growth (i.e., a country getting richer) is bad? We're not talking about a fabulously rich individual. A country has poor people and a majority of people near the middle.

if you think that is what i am saying you are being suspiciously simplistic about it. like, in a way just to endlessly bicker about it. why are you doing that?
obviously a tiny recession isn't that bad. it may be in line with the current population projections, which is lowering, so nothing essential is lost.

 

[Jack V Savage]

if you think that is what i am saying you are being suspiciously simplistic about it. like, in a way just to endlessly bicker about it. why are you doing that?

Well, you can elaborate if you want. I think cheering on a recession is pretty fucked-up, and that it's self-evidently true that getting richer is better for a country. You disagree?

obviously a tiny recession isn't that bad. it may be in line with the current population projections, which is lowering, so nothing essential is lost.

A tiny recession is less bad than a big one but less good than not having a recession.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Well, you can elaborate if you want. I think cheering on a recession is pretty fucked-up, and that it's self-evidently true that getting richer is better for a country. You disagree?


A tiny recession is less bad than a big one but less good than not having a recession.

not cheering, just not thinking it's a big deal. maybe not endlessly pursuing growth is an alternative.

why do you always straw-man? it makes you look like a very dishonest poster.

 

[Jack V Savage]

not cheering, just not thinking it's a big deal. maybe not endlessly pursuing growth is an alternative.

why do you always straw-man? it makes you look like a very dishonest poster.

I never strawman (I don't think you'll find a single example of it). You said that it was good. Now you're saying it's not. Fine. I agree that it's somewhat bad but not a huge deal. But I think, as I said, that it's self-evidently true that it's better for a country to get richer than poorer.

 

[Wetarmpits]

Not sure if they're going to school more in your country. What I am referring to is the decline of child labor. It used to be very common in America when the country was very poor (compared to now). As we've gotten richer as a society, there's been a huge decrease in child labor and a huge increase in retirement, along with shorter hours for working men. Women work more, though that trend stopped a while ago.

And just to be sure, both parents mostly have to work to make a living over here in germany, of course on their quite high standart but I don't think, while economy grew all along from the 80s households are richer now than back then.

It's often an economical decision, at least partly to stay together and be able to afford the rent for a bigger flat, sport classes, car, vacation, phones etc.

Many people don't count on a nice retirement income and my circle consists mostly of academics.

 

[Wetarmpits]

I never strawman (I don't think you'll find a single example of it). You said that it was good. Now you're saying it's not. Fine. I agree that it's somewhat bad but not a huge deal. But I think, as I said, that it's self-evidently true that it's better for a country to get richer than poorer.

I mean, it depends where all that growth ends up, right?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Geeze, you guys will argue over anything. It's pretty obvious what's being implied here.... in life people often balance their work bucket with their alone time personal life bucket (some hobbies and interests), and their social life interests (time spent with family and friends).

While it's lovely to have all three buckets to be huge and filled with water, it's not possible and so people strive to find some sort of optimal filling of the buckets. Being hyper-focused on one bucket at the expense of others can be detrimental. Like the expression it's pretty rare that people on their death bed said they wished they spent more time in the office.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I mean, it depends where all that growth ends up, right?

Distribution is one issue and overall wealth is another.

 

[Wetarmpits]

Distribution is one issue and overall wealth is another.

I can agree on that fully. You're into that topic as a hobbyiest or is it your profession? You seem kinda knowledgeable. At least more than I am.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Geeze, you guys will argue over anything. It's pretty obvious what's being implied here.... in life people often balance their work bucket with their alone time personal life bucket (some hobbies and interests), and their social life interests (time spent with family and friends).

While it's lovely to have all three buckets to be huge and filled with water, it's not possible and so people strive to find some sort of optimal filling of the buckets. Being hyper-focused on one bucket at the expense of others can be detrimental. Like the expression it's pretty rare that people on their death bed said they wished they spent more time in the office.

I think people are saying absurd things in order to be challenging and provocative and then getting prickly when they provoke and are challenged.

Obviously no one in the world thinks GDP is the only thing that matters, and obviously it is better for a country to be getting richer than poorer. If someone wants to try to isolate the real disagreement, be my guest.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I can agree on that fully. You're into that topic as a hobbyiest or is it your profession? You seem kinda knowledgeable. At least more than I am.

Hobbyist. I'm an equity analyst so there's some overlap, though (one big thing, to be honest, is that reading that kind of thing looked like work when I was still going into the office).

 

[Wetarmpits]

Hobbyist. I'm an equity analyst so there's some overlap, though (one big thing, to be honest, is that reading that kind of thing looked like work when I was still going into the office).

That's overlapping indeed. I'm more like an artist, for whatever that is, so financial topics are not my strong suit or field of interest really.

Have a good one and thanks for the input!

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

I think people are saying absurd things in order to be challenging and provocative and then getting prickly when they provoke and are challenged.

Obviously no one in the world thinks GDP is the only thing that matters, and obviously it is better for a country to be getting richer than poorer. If someone wants to try to isolate the real disagreement, be my guest.

I think you're misinterpreting what he is saying, or perhaps unable to infer what he's trying to say - even if he isn't saying it very well, it's not a hard inference to make.

 

[Wetarmpits]

I think you're misinterpreting what he is saying, or perhaps unable to infer what he's trying to say - even if he isn't saying it very well, it's not a hard inference to make.

Yea, I think they are just arguing from opposite positions and it would only take a little shift and less ego to find middleground.

But fuck it! I'm out. Weekend. Party. Girls. Cheers.

 

[Jack V Savage]

I think you're misinterpreting what he is saying, or perhaps unable to infer what he's trying to say - even if he isn't saying it very well, it's not a hard inference to make.

He said the recession in Japan is good and that it is "retarded" to want countries to get richer. Again, if the claim is just that GDP isn't the only thing that matters, that is trivial. His actual comments were absurd and deliberately provocative.