Khabib brutally dwarfed by football player (van dijk)

[Haj01]

Miss this period in MMA.

 

[Martialbeef]

The football dweebs will use any excuse to discuss this sport in the UFC forum. No one cares

 

[Roljo]

Don't know man, they seriously lack any sort of arm coordination and movement. They could probably be powerfull kickers though. Maybe could implement a poirier style tactics and low kick opponents calfs into bellowns to a title.

I think Aldo played some good level amateur soccer before his mma career

 

[tracksuitfan]

Why is sherdog so gay? Why everyone has to be so obsessed with height and being "alfa"? Yall got some issues and i believe most of you follow MMA for, well, nonstandard reasons.

 

[Jose Beehive]

From what i've seen, the squad overall seems to be horribly lethargic at times, it's crazy.
Plus many players perform worse than in their clubs, yet Messi often has good performances.
If it wasn't for him scoring three goals in which i think was the final qualifier game, they wouldn't have been at the 2018 world cup at all.
If he could just incite more fire in his team mates on an international level, that'd be great, but i don't criticize him or any other player in a similar role for that matter that much, because there needs to be a certain level of overall "motivation" so to say in any team and in argentina, this often does not seem to be the case, because it shouldn't take a captain to be motivating as hell to beat opponents (significantly) below your level, which is something that argentina has often failed to do in the past.

I don't know other quality players have been in and out of that team, even players he's done well with outside of the national team like Mascherano, some great managers.. Yet he's remained the consistent big personality during all of that that period of underachieving, I think some managers have struggled both at Barcelona and Argentina to see eye to eye with him.. His ego is seemingly pretty huge, like Ronaldo's, but Ronaldo seems to have far less fuss and contentiousness around the managers he's worked with, who ironically are far more known for fallouts with players and being stubborn, yet Messi seems to have his issue's with everyone he works under, which then transcends to the rest of the team.
The Portugal Team Ronaldo won the Euro's with were pretty average and the Manager wasn't really regarded as anything special, but Ronaldo's captaincy was regarded as a huge factor in their success, if your talking about comparing the two players, I think communication skills and captaincy are relevant for comparison.

Surely you can't forget the players around him, but at least when comparing him with Ronaldo, i don't take that into consideration too much, because they've both played in probably the best teams that ever existed (and gosh do i hate to say that about Real Madrid, lol).
I don't know if Ronaldo would deliver more in the slightly worse teams you've mentioned than Messi would do, i think they'd both be great at the top teams and slightly worse but still damn good in the lesser teams, though Ronaldo's the more infectious (passion-wise) person on the pitch, so if that's part of your consideration, then Ronaldo *might* help a team more then messi solely because that quality is so good in him and helps to elevate his team mates.

Yeah fair, though I do think Ronaldo's ability to settle in different leagues and different teams at Juventus and Manchester United are to his credit, Messi struggles to adapt mentally at the team he's always known at times, never mind in the a different country/league.
I think Messi would get frustrated and retire if he were playing in a team like Stoke like he did for his Country lol, and Ronaldo would rise to the challenge of settling in a team that plays shit football.

Ya i see where you're coming from with that comparison apparently being unfair, but for me it's like this: on a footballing level, Messi can do almost anything that Ronaldo does and he's better in most regards, plus he's amongst the world's best in regards where Ronaldo clearly isn't (be it dribbling, playmaking or passing) and i think that's what they base their comparison on, they don't compare them relative to their roles, but relative to the sum of all of their offensive abilities.
I'd prefer Messi because i could use him in Ronaldo's role (in which he'd obviously less of an aerial threat, but more of threat in things like driblling, etc.) but i could use him when and however i want in another role as well and if it's any offensive position on the field, he'd still be absurdly good.

Nah he's slower even now when Ronaldo is like 35 and always has been, not as strong, he can't jump as high (heading is also important for defending), he doesn't directly humiliate defenders with tricks and pace as well.. he can't blast a knuckle ball free kick from 40 yards that humiliates goalkeepers, he can't command the team to try harder as a captain, I think Ronaldo can play all 3 positions as comfortable as Messi, but can't play as many positions within those roles(so he can plays Left-Centre-Right) but not (CAM,False 9, Inside Forward, Winger) in all of those positions like Messi can, he's less injury prone(though more likely to get suspended)..
Messi has better closer dribbling less likely to get tackled(safer), a greater smarter passing range, a more technical curling shot and free kick, better first touch for controlling the ball. But I don't think Messi can do Ronaldo's job, he can do Messi's job in Ronaldo's role better than Ronaldo can do Ronaldo's job in Messi's role, but if we are comparing versatility as a competitive trait, then John O'shea is better than both of them lol.

Messi's versatility also leaves way more options for combinations in the offense, but another way that i think illustrates what i mean in this regard is the following; i think there are from time to time, at least for a season or so, strikers that can match (or almost match) Ronaldo in his role, be it current Lewandowski, a prime Suarez, or a prime Falcao (man what a player he was years ago...) and you'll also always have insanely good playmakers, be it Iniesta, De Bruyne, a prime Özil or someone else - but the thing with Messi is, is that he can fill either of these roles to an extent where you couldn't ever possibly say "we need a better player than him in this position" imo - he's basically a 10/10 at everything with the ball; if you manage to not let him through to goal, he'll split defences with passes, if you want to successfully mark him for 90 minutes, you'll inevitably open up a fair lot of space elsewhere, he's just so damn good.

I don't know man Ronaldo does it year after year he's just broken the most goals ever scored by anyone ever record, England, Spain, Italy and International, none of those players have done half of that.
You wouldn't say we need a player better than Ronaldo either though, no one has ever wanted to replace Ronaldo in any team he's been in. United fans wanted to keep him, shitty Real Fans did, Lisbon want him back, Juventus were applauding his goals before the even signed him. None of them would have ever traded Suarez, Falcao or Lewandowski for him by choice.
I've seen both players have shit games where defenders have bossed them, neither are perfect, imo Messi naturally struggles more and more with defenders figuring him out as time goes on, Ronaldo seemingly less so.

I think we'll likely always be on opposite sides on this one, i'm obviously super biased as a United fan, had the debate many many times for many many years lol. Bias comes into it loads Teams who don't have Ronaldo hate him and the unlikable teams he plays for, teams who don't have Messi love him and likeable Barcelona.. Play attractive football and do so many things fundamentally right like Barcelona have, and you're going to gain so many neutral fans, Play for Manchester United and Real Madrid and come across like an arrogant money hungry twat like Ronaldo does at times and your always going to gather large amounts of haters.. People who have no idea about football hate Ronaldo just because he's a flashy dude.

You're right, totally forgot about Tuchel lol.
In terms of expertise and football knowledge, Tuchel is insanely good, but i think he lacks a lot of the interpersonal component which especially nowadays is needed to successfully coach a team, especially over longer periods of team.
In that regard, he reminds me of Guardiola a bit, though i think that on a superficial level, Guardiola still is more of a likeable guy to have as coach, if that makes sense.
Don't get me wrong though, Tuchel isn't a horrible person, but there's something very aloof about his demeanor.

I'd say that's pretty accurate, lol.

Nice, I presume he'll be able to get the best out of his German players in that squad, Thiago Silva he's worked with too which will be interesting to me.
Looking forward to see how Liverpool do vs Chelsea next game now.
Seems quite a funny character haha

 

[Adamant]

Khabib has tiny hands.

 

[A.S. Deep]

Why is sherdog so gay? Why everyone has to be so obsessed with height and being "alfa"? Yall got some issues and i believe most of you follow MMA for, well, nonstandard reasons.

Much of Sherdog is more gay than actual homosexuals.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

 

[Yourstepdad]

I see Van Dijk I like

 

[Iron Nick]

I don't know other quality players have been in and out of that team, even players he's done well with outside of the national team like Mascherano, some great managers.. Yet he's remained the consistent big personality during all of that that period of underachieving, I think some managers have struggled both at Barcelona and Argentina to see eye to eye with him.. His ego is seemingly pretty huge, like Ronaldo's, but Ronaldo seems to have far less fuss and contentiousness around the managers he's worked with, who ironically are far more known for fallouts with players and being stubborn, yet Messi seems to have his issue's with everyone he works under, which then transcends to the rest of the team.
The Portugal Team Ronaldo won the Euro's with were pretty average and the Manager wasn't really regarded as anything special, but Ronaldo's captaincy was regarded as a huge factor in their success, if your talking about comparing the two players, I think communication skills and captaincy are relevant for comparison.

Yeah, i agree that Messi is apparently very difficult.
I have sympathy for him though, the pressure on his shoulders is ridiculous, because one, he's (or what's more problematic: has to be) maradona's successor and two, because argentinean football fans are *on average* very emotional and unfortunately often in a rather bad way, which has to be a shitty thing to deal with, once thing's aren't working out and i can imagine that one falls into a downward-spiral rather easily.
The relationship between argentina and messi, when it's at their worst, reminds me a bit of the one real madrid and some madrid fans have towards their players - fuck was it horrible when Casillas left Madrid and cried at the press conference where he was left completely alone.

Yeah fair, though I do think Ronaldo's ability to settle in different leagues and different teams at Juventus and Manchester United are to his credit, Messi struggles to adapt mentally at the team he's always known at times, never mind in the a different country/league.
I think Messi would get frustrated and retire if he were playing in a team like Stoke like he did for his Country lol, and Ronaldo would rise to the challenge of settling in a team that plays shit football.

That's to his credit for sure.
Might be right about the second part, could see that being the case.

Nah he's slower even now when Ronaldo is like 35 and always has been, not as strong, he can't jump as high (heading is also important for defending), he doesn't directly humiliate defenders with tricks and pace as well.. he can't blast a knuckle ball free kick from 40 yards that humiliates goalkeepers, he can't command the team to try harder as a captain, I think Ronaldo can play all 3 positions as comfortable as Messi, but can't play as many positions within those roles(so he can plays Left-Centre-Right) but not (CAM,False 9, Inside Forward, Winger) in all of those positions like Messi can, he's less injury prone(though more likely to get suspended)..
Messi has better closer dribbling less likely to get tackled(safer), a greater smarter passing range, a more technical curling shot and free kick, better first touch for controlling the ball. But I don't think Messi can do Ronaldo's job, he can do Messi's job in Ronaldo's role better than Ronaldo can do Ronaldo's job in Messi's role, but if we are comparing versatility as a competitive trait, then John O'shea is better than both of them lol.

I think here we'll have the biggest disagreements!
To my knowledge, Messi has less top speed, but accelerates quite a bit faster, certainly when we're talking from accelerating out of a static position.
Regarding the strength, Ronaldo has the edge, but (!) i don't think Ronaldo uses it to the extent he could/should; he goes down (obviously intentionally) very easily sometimes, but even if not, i'd say that Messi is still harder to get the ball from, since his mega low center of gravity and technicall skill makes for an incredibly agile player with insane balance..
Yeah, Ronaldo is the better header and jumper, no doubt.
As for the dribbling, i give the edge to Messi, since he's statistically better and doesn't rely on fancy movements, but instead mainly benefits from "bread and butter" feints, but performed with immaculate timing and cleverness.
(What i love and this works really great IRL, is the double touch, where he does alternate between L-R feet and and then escape towards the left or right of the defender.
Didn't find a gif, but i'm sure you'll know what i mean, he basically does a kind of zig zag then..

In regards to the shooting, you're right that Ronaldo can score from further out than Messi, but considereing the fact that Ronaldo isn't really that accurate (relatively speaking!) with his long range shots, is another reason, why i rate Messi higher there.
(I admittedly absolutely love knuckleballs and any other shots with lots of force behind it that are scored from 30 metres and further out).
Remember the following one?


Love this one too, lol (timestamped):

<45><45><45>

As for the position thing: Ronaldo - for me - is always a centre forward; he adapts positions on the wing, but where he truly shines, is inside the box.

I don't think the O'Shea argument is valid here either, at least in the way that i meant to phrase this comparison that has drawn this response of yours, initially:
Imo, Messi can do all the (most important) things, that Ronaldo can do, just as good and sometimes much better, but here's how i'd rate them in those things:

Ronaldo = red
Messi = light blue
Maximal rating for each trait: 10

Positioning inside the box: 10 / 10
Finishing: 10 / 10
Decision-making (assisting/setting assists up) inside the box: 7.5 / 10
Shooting accuracy: 9 / 10
Shooting power: 9 / 7.5
Heading accuracy: 9 / 8.5
Jumping: 10 / 6.5
Positioning outside the box: 7.5 / 10
First touch: 8.5 / 10
Playmaking: 7 / 10
Passing (short): 8 / 10
Passing (long): 7 / 10
Dribbling: 8 / 10
Acceleration: 8.5 / 9.5
Top speed: 10 / 8.5
Agility: 8 / 10
Balance: 7.5 / 10
Endurance: 9 / 8

I know some of them sound harsh, but i don't know what to do other than being honest about my opinion here, lol.
The Spielverlagerung article on Cristiano Ronaldo and me afterwards paying attention to what he does inside the game in regards to what i've read in the article really convinced me, that instead of being a winger, he's actually a goalscoring striker more than anything else and that the box is where he truly shines, whereas his decision-making outside of it, isn't really that good, relatively speaking.

I don't know man Ronaldo does it year after year he's just broken the most goals ever scored by anyone ever record, England, Spain, Italy and International, none of those players have done half of that.
You wouldn't say we need a player better than Ronaldo either though, no one has ever wanted to replace Ronaldo in any team he's been in. United fans wanted to keep him, shitty Real Fans did, Lisbon want him back, Juventus were applauding his goals before the even signed him. None of them would have ever traded Suarez, Falcao or Lewandowski for him by choice.
I've seen both players have shit games where defenders have bossed them, neither are perfect, imo Messi naturally struggles more and more with defenders figuring him out as time goes on, Ronaldo seemingly less so.

Yeah, no doubt about his consistency.
No need to replace him either, though if i could choose only one, it'd be Messi, but if you need a goalscoring machine that you want to score goals and concentrate solely on that, then Ronaldo fits that, whereas i think Messi's playmaking abilities would be a bit wasted, if you'd play him as an actual centre forward who doesn't drop back.

I think we'll likely always be on opposite sides on this one, i'm obviously super biased as a United fan, had the debate many many times for many many years lol. Bias comes into it loads Teams who don't have Ronaldo hate him and the unlikable teams he plays for, teams who don't have Messi love him and likeable Barcelona.. Play attractive football and do so many things fundamentally right like Barcelona have, and you're going to gain so many neutral fans, Play for Manchester United and Real Madrid and come across like an arrogant money hungry twat like Ronaldo does at times and your always going to gather large amounts of haters.. People who have no idea about football hate Ronaldo just because he's a flashy dude.

Ya maybe, but that is fine!
That's true what you're saying with the teams, though i have no antipathy for Ronaldo due to the clubs he played for, even though i'm not a fan of either club lol - i just think i'm able to be objective there (like anyone should be, imo).

Nice, I presume he'll be able to get the best out of his German players in that squad, Thiago Silva he's worked with too which will be interesting to me.
Looking forward to see how Liverpool do vs Chelsea next game now.
Seems quite a funny character haha

Same here, he's great at developing players from what i've seen.
But as mentioned, the knowledge about the game itself is where he shines; typical trait of a modern german coach it seems, Flick, Klopp and Nagelsmann are very intelligent too, the latter is only something above 30 years old as well, crazy to think about...

 

[Jose Beehive]

Yeah, i agree that Messi is apparently very difficult.
I have sympathy for him though, the pressure on his shoulders is ridiculous, because one, he's (or what's more problematic: has to be) maradona's successor and two, because argentinean football fans are *on average* very emotional and unfortunately often in a rather bad way, which has to be a shitty thing to deal with, once thing's aren't working out and i can imagine that one falls into a downward-spiral rather easily.
The relationship between argentina and messi, when it's at their worst, reminds me a bit of the one real madrid and some madrid fans have towards their players - fuck was it horrible when Casillas left Madrid and cried at the press conference where he was left completely alone.

They can indeed be very shitty fans haha, Ronaldo put up with those cunty Real fans and still smashed in billions of goals season after season though under different managers, he never bottles it under fan pressure... Was awful what happened with Casillas, one of the GOAT keepers in my life time for sure! Underrated as fuck.

I think here we'll have the biggest disagreements!
To my knowledge, Messi has less top speed, but accelerates quite a bit faster, certainly when we're talking from accelerating out of a static position.
Regarding the strength, Ronaldo has the edge, but (!) i don't think Ronaldo uses it to the extent he could/should; he goes down (obviously intentionally) very easily sometimes, but even if not, i'd say that Messi is still harder to get the ball from, since his mega low center of gravity and technicall skill makes for an incredibly agile player with insane balance..
Yeah, Ronaldo is the better header and jumper, no doubt.
As for the dribbling, i give the edge to Messi, since he's statistically better and doesn't rely on fancy movements, but instead mainly benefits from "bread and butter" feints, but performed with immaculate timing and cleverness.
(What i love and this works really great IRL, is the double touch, where he does alternate between L-R feet and and then escape towards the left or right of the defender.
Didn't find a gif, but i'm sure you'll know what i mean, he basically does a kind of zig zag then..

Messi cuts through players better with his dribbling no doubt, that moving through the pitch silky like a knife through butter(lol another butter analogy) is effective at getting to which part of the pitch he wants to, he dances through with that centre of gravity, Ronaldo Bombs through directly though Messi is like >> < > << > <!! where as Ronaldo is like >>>>>>>>>>>!!!!!! haha.

Here Messi pulls back and picks up 3 defenders, amazingly he keeps the ball controlled and receives the "foul" Ronaldo doesn't give himself opportunities to attract more defenders, he's gone, even his dribbling skills are designed to leave the defender behind, not to bring them out of position like Messi often does, Messi likes being a magnet, Ronaldo wants no part in that.

Here Ronaldo takes the ball off Messi and is set on the counter attack his initial touch after taking it off him and he's already about 10 metres away from him, directly trying to get as far away as possible from the defenders, doesn't work for him here though, as no one else is there to support him in taking away the defensive threat, Messi would have countered slower, and made his team mates get involved here helping the team.

Ronaldo gets from A > B quicker, Messi can still do it quick, though he has way more hesitations in him than when he was younger like pre 24.. and looks far more for the hold up the ball and look for smarter passing options as he's got older

I agree Messi is harder to get the ball from, but he's easier to recover back into a defensive position to than Ronaldo who is gone if you miss your one chance, Messi sometimes moves back to where he started, goes around in circles, Ronaldo is on his bike trying to get the goal chance if not a free kick or corner, never the assist unless it's the only thing available and even then rarely.

In regards to the shooting, you're right that Ronaldo can score from further out than Messi, but considereing the fact that Ronaldo isn't really that accurate (relatively speaking!) with his long range shots, is another reason, why i rate Messi higher there.
(I admittedly absolutely love knuckleballs and any other shots with lots of force behind it that are scored from 30 metres and further out).
Remember the following one?


Love this one too, lol (timestamped):

<45><45><45>

Nice! I do remember that Giovanni goal like it was yesterday! quality stuff.. Don't recall the 2nd one though.

As for the position thing: Ronaldo - for me - is always a centre forward; he adapts positions on the wing, but where he truly shines, is inside the box.

He has over time become that because he offers more than most strikers do, though he was always a winger for our team apart from in his last 2 years of his 5 at United he became an Inside Forward instead of a winger, he never played as a striker for us though, and we played with 2 already! Wasn't until his like 2nd season at Madrid he became a striker, and likely because Portugal always had shit strikers and amazing wingers he became one for the national team.
I think he's the best player the Premier League has ever seen along with Thierry Henry, but not even close to being top 10 strikers the PL has ever had.

I don't think the O'Shea argument is valid here either, at least in the way that i meant to phrase this comparison that has drawn this response of yours, initially:
Imo, Messi can do all the (most important) things, that Ronaldo can do, just as good and sometimes much better, but here's how i'd rate them in those things:

Ronaldo = red
Messi = light blue
Maximal rating for each trait: 10

Positioning inside the box: 10 / 10
Finishing: 10 / 10
Decision-making (assisting/setting assists up) inside the box: 7.5 / 10
Shooting accuracy: 9 / 10
Shooting power: 9 / 7.5
Heading accuracy: 9 / 8.5
Jumping: 10 / 6.5
Positioning outside the box: 7.5 / 10
First touch: 8.5 / 10
Playmaking: 7 / 10
Passing (short): 8 / 10
Passing (long): 7 / 10
Dribbling: 8 / 10
Acceleration: 8.5 / 9.5
Top speed: 10 / 8.5
Agility: 8 / 10
Balance: 7.5 / 10
Endurance: 9 / 8

I know some of them sound harsh, but i don't know what to do other than being honest about my opinion here, lol.
The Spielverlagerung article on Cristiano Ronaldo and me afterwards paying attention to what he does inside the game in regards to what i've read in the article really convinced me, that instead of being a winger, he's actually a goalscoring striker more than anything else and that the box is where he truly shines, whereas his decision-making outside of it, isn't really that good, relatively speaking.

Yeah I was kind of joking with John O'shea example because he's literally played in ever position on the pitch, Unlike these two scrubs..

I think your scoring is pretty fair, i'll do mine

Ronaldo = red
Messi = light blue
Maximal rating for each trait: 10

Positioning inside the box: 10 / 10
Finishing: 10 / 10
Decision-making (assisting/setting assists up) inside the box: 7.5 / 10
Shooting accuracy: 10 / 10
Shooting power: 9 / 7.5
Heading accuracy: 10 / 8
Jumping: 11 / 6.5
Positioning outside the box: 8 / 10
First touch: 9 / 10
Playmaking: 7 / 10
Passing (short): 8 / 10
Passing (long): 8 / 10
Dribbling: 9 / 11
Acceleration: 9 / 9.5
Top speed: 10 / 8.5
Agility: 9 / 10
Balance: 8 / 10
Endurance: 10 / 8

Then I'd add more mental traits

Captain Leadership 9 / 7.5
Eccentricity/Unpredictability 9 / 9
Discipline 7.5 / 9.5
Aggression 9 / 7
Flair 10 / 9.5


Disagree on the he's only a striker, that's the only position he gets played in now a days so we just don't see what he's like deeper as a winger any more, he was quality as a winger in his younger years at United and for Portugal.. He's such a good wide player he pretty much(with Messi) transcended the idea of what Wide players can be capable of evolved the roll into a different position(inside forward) also making the traditional Winger position irrelevant for many years since.. 99% of wide players are now cut in dribblers who shoot way more and are expected to score far more often, the "wingers" before Ronaldo and Messi were very much players expected to mainly assist with goals and get maybe 10-12 if you were one of the best in the world.

Ya maybe, but that is fine!
That's true what you're saying with the teams, though i have no antipathy for Ronaldo due to the clubs he played for, even though i'm not a fan of either club lol - i just think i'm able to be objective there (like anyone should be, imo).

Same here, he's great at developing players from what i've seen.
But as mentioned, the knowledge about the game itself is where he shines; typical trait of a modern german coach it seems, Flick, Klopp and Nagelsmann are very intelligent too, the latter is only something above 30 years old as well, crazy to think about...

For sure, wasn't saying you do, just that in my time of debating for Ronaldo vs Messi, there is almost always an underlying hatred of Ronaldo for his "diving", "ego", "materialistic" aspects, which I can see blur the situation when comparing for many, even for professionals and rational minded people.
At the end of the day though we are absolutely blessed to have witnessed both of them! I can't wait to talk about them in hopefully 40 years time!


Chelsea have done okay so far in like 2 games, not conceded a goal yet with new manager which was a big problem with Frankie Lamps. Beat Spurs tonight 1-0 with a penalty win, was one of the most boring games of football i've seen in ages though..

Yeah been looking into Nagelsmann since his name has come up a few times in potential Ole replacement, intriguing guy, these Red Bull set ups seem to be doing really well..

 

[X^flottigliaMAS]

Van sick would win a kickboxing match against kalabib