Low carb vs Carbs in the morning

hardheart said:
Pretty much what SD said, but, if you absolutely have to you can use the Crystal Light packs. My GF can't drink water so she does the packs. Whatever, as long as it's 0cal.
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I use 4C flavor packets because the type I buy contain electrolytes, which I think are more important for staying hydrated than simply drinking gallons of water a day.
 
hardheart said:
No, the exact opposite. Eat as much fat as possible, as much protein as possible, and as few carbs as humanly possible.

I'm serious.
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If I may trouble you with a question here. But how do you figure out how much carbs do you need for a good training? To lift maxes and such. Do you simply decrease the intake and try to get used to it?
Does your statement apply only for the cutting period? I'm simply asking cause I've been trying to figure out a diet that I can have through the whole year. (Somehow inspired by Scooby - youtube.) Sorry for the confusion but those carbs really puzzle me...
Thanks!
 
Seriously-Dead said:
Well, you've proven yourself as useless to me. Anyone got anything? Cause I sure can't find anything reputable.
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This isn't what you're looking for, exactly, but I figure its relevant at least:

Greater weight loss and hormonal cha... [Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Influence of meal time on salivary circadian corti... [Nutrition. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

edit: Might as well link the whole blog post too since its interesting and kind of relevant: Is Late Night Eating Better for Fat Loss and Health? | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
 
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weaselGRM said:
If I may trouble you with a question here. But how do you figure out how much carbs do you need for a good training? To lift maxes and such. Do you simply decrease the intake and try to get used to it?
Does your statement apply only for the cutting period? I'm simply asking cause I've been trying to figure out a diet that I can have through the whole year. (Somehow inspired by Scooby - youtube.) Sorry for the confusion but those carbs really puzzle me...
Thanks!
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I don't have a particular method for calculating how many carbs I need or don't need. I try to eat sensibly and avoid sugary drinks and heavy carbs after work. So, potatoes and pasta are pretty much out after 5pm with the exception of weekends. Past this, I haven't really gone much deeper with fine tuning my diet as the small changes I make have typically yielded the results I seek.

You may want to hop in to some of the low-carb threads (there are a few) as there could be some knowledge kicking around in there related to what you're looking for as far as carb tuning. You will probably have to use the search function to find them.
 
weaselGRM said:
If I may trouble you with a question here. But how do you figure out how much carbs do you need for a good training? To lift maxes and such. Do you simply decrease the intake and try to get used to it?
Does your statement apply only for the cutting period? I'm simply asking cause I've been trying to figure out a diet that I can have through the whole year. (Somehow inspired by Scooby - youtube.) Sorry for the confusion but those carbs really puzzle me...
Thanks!
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Easy way to manage your macronutrients is to have a set amount of protein and fat in your diet regardless if you want to lose, maintain or gain weight, then use carbs as variable. Go high if you want to cut weight, higher if you want to maintain, even higher if you want to gain weight.

Carbs are high, but if you're training you want to have energy, carbs are the best source of energy. Even if you want to cut weight. Training is the #1 key to weight loss, by cutting out carbs you're sabotaging your own chances to perform your best in the gym.

Low carb high fat diets are nice and all if you're a sedentary middle-aged woman who wants to talk with her friends about this new "life style" she's living.
 
Honestly, weigh ins are Saturday and I'm already on target for my water cut doing this diet and I feel a hundred times better than I do on my regular weight cut diet, and I'm full of energy, it almost seems like Im cheating for being so cheerful during weight cut week. So much energy I'm actually considering keeping this up after the fight.. The only question i have is what should I eat after weigh ins? I don't want to stuff myself with carbs all of a sudden after having next to zero and crash hard
 
Cygnus-X said:
Easy way to manage your macronutrients is to have a set amount of protein and fat in your diet regardless if you want to lose, maintain or gain weight, then use carbs as variable. Go high if you want to cut weight, higher if you want to maintain, even higher if you want to gain weight.

Carbs are high, but if you're training you want to have energy, carbs are the best source of energy. Even if you want to cut weight. Training is the #1 key to weight loss, by cutting out carbs you're sabotaging your own chances to perform your best in the gym.

Low carb high fat diets are nice and all if you're a sedentary middle-aged woman who wants to talk with her friends about this new "life style" she's living.
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Totally disagree. Its a very individualistic thing. There are plenty of people that can thrive on very low carb diets and plenty who can't.

To claim a low carb diet is only for sedentary people is disingenuous. Personally I feel a lot better when I lower my carb intake.
 
Jarel said:
Honestly, weigh ins are Saturday and I'm already on target for my water cut doing this diet and I feel a hundred times better than I do on my regular weight cut diet, and I'm full of energy, it almost seems like Im cheating for being so cheerful during weight cut week. So much energy I'm actually considering keeping this up after the fight.. The only question i have is what should I eat after weigh ins? I don't want to stuff myself with carbs all of a sudden after having next to zero and crash hard
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Definitely use pedialyte along with water to help you rehydrate.

Eat carbs, but from clean sources. If you are glycogen depleted (which I am pretty sure you will be after cutting) The carbs will go mainly to your muscles and you will feel pretty good the next day for the fight.
 
anaconda said:
This isn't what you're looking for, exactly, but I figure its relevant at least:

Greater weight loss and hormonal cha... [Obesity (Silver Spring). 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

Influence of meal time on salivary circadian corti... [Nutrition. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

edit: Might as well link the whole blog post too since its interesting and kind of relevant: Is Late Night Eating Better for Fat Loss and Health? | Intermittent fasting diet for fat loss, muscle gain and health
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Thanks but I was looking more for evidence showing that cortisol rises specifically in the morning in response to feeding/carbohydrates. Could use something like that for my research review. Unfortunately that circadian rhythm study you posted shows that there's no real difference.

I still might be able to use that study for something else though, thanks.
 
I'd like to see some studies or sources about the morning cortisol thing as well.

hrm maybe this has something to do with it?

Cortisol awakening response - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it's safe to say from this thread that carbohydrates raise cortisol - I don't think its been shown that cortisol meal timing matters, it's always a bad thing to have cortisol rise (unless you are being chased by a tiger or migrating your tribe across 2000 miles of open country).
 
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anaconda said:
Definitely use pedialyte along with water to help you rehydrate.

Eat carbs, but from clean sources. If you are glycogen depleted (which I am pretty sure you will be after cutting) The carbs will go mainly to your muscles and you will feel pretty good the next day for the fight.
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Clean sources like oatmeal? What exactly depletes my glycogen? Should I also have carbs the day of my fight
 
Nemesis48 said:
I'd like to see some studies or sources about the morning cortisol thing as well.

hrm maybe this has something to do with it?

Cortisol awakening response - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it's safe to say from this thread that carbohydrates raise cortisol - I don't think its been shown that cortisol meal timing matters, it's always a bad thing to have cortisol rise (unless you are being chased by a tiger or migrating your tribe across 2000 miles of open country).
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Right, and cortisol levels are typically at their highest after sleep, which, would lend eating carbs in the morning to unhealthy cortisol levels.
 
I don't think we can say having a one off temporal peak of cortisol is a bad thing (could very well be a good thing). Like most other endocrine molecules, it's probably only bad when the area under the curve is increased for an entire day/month/year.
 
Nemesis48 said:
I'd like to see some studies or sources about the morning cortisol thing as well.

hrm maybe this has something to do with it?

Cortisol awakening response - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think it's safe to say from this thread that carbohydrates raise cortisol - I don't think its been shown that cortisol meal timing matters, it's always a bad thing to have cortisol rise (unless you are being chased by a tiger or migrating your tribe across 2000 miles of open country).
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Resistance exercise acutely raises cortisol. Is that a bad thing? No. It might actually help promote training adaptations.



EDIT: I haven't read the thread, but as a general comment, unless you guys have specific metabolic pathologies which would have implications on carbohydrate metabolism and would require special dietary interventions (diabetes, MS, etc) or have very specific performance reasons to want to train in a carbohydrate-depleted state, you shouldn't be afraid of carbs. Just don't eat more carbs than you burn over the 24h period.
 
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^ That's it exactly it.

Total area under the curve is what actually matters, and it only matters when it goes past a certain level and tissues are forced to adapt by downregulating receptor levels, in this case glucocorticoid receptors, which eventually leads to systemic dysfunction that you see in Type 2 DBs/meta syndrome populations.
 
Weigh ins are tomorrow, and I'm still confused as to whether to switch to healthy complex carbs afterwards or keep on with my protein and fat/no carbs throughout fight day.. Anymore advice?
 
Jarel said:
Weigh ins are tomorrow, and I'm still confused as to whether to switch to healthy complex carbs afterwards or keep on with my protein and fat/no carbs throughout fight day.. Anymore advice?
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Eat some carbs after weigh in, you need glycogen for optimal performance.
 
hardheart said:
1. Carbs in the morning = higher cortisol
2. Higher cortisol = higher water retention & fat production

I'm skipping a lot of health math here, but the start and end points are what matters.
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???

I always thought insulin lowers the effect of cortisol. Also insulin is a vasodialative hormone. More bloodflow to the heart. Parasympathetic activation. Where as fats are more on the sympathetic activation. Do what works best for you but I def get carbs in the morning. Esp for energy purposes. Btw nothing wrong with fats either I get them too.
 
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