Merged Religous Debate Threads

[Mens Rea**]

careful randy, the creationist nutbags have fantasy answers for all those questions.

 

[randyispwn]

We will all be laughing at the end.

Come on now, this isnt the way of the Lord. If you really believe he will be going to hell purely because he does not believe in Jesus or God, then you should be praying for him, not laughing at him for fucking up. I personally believe that if God and Jesus are what we say they are, then they wouldnt discriminate what you believe in. IMO believers get sent to hell for the same reason non believers get sent to hell: because they were bad people, and its the same on the other side of it, non believers and believers go to heaven for believing. I just can't imagine a God that would send someone like ghandi to hell, because he didnt follow Jesus. There are PLENTY of great people that believe in other religions, or that believe in nothing at all, and I doubt God is sending them to spend all eternity in hell purely because they didnt believe the right thing. God can't work like that, he is a just God, and a just God would not base his opinion on you after some stupid shit like "did you believe in me....NO, THEN YOU GO TO HELL"..."but God, I'm the Buddha, I have been a great man for basically my whole life"..."well you didnt believe in me, go to hell"

THATS NOT HOW THIS WORKS

Honestly, why is everyone on this board either a full fledged athiest, or a creationist. I dont get it. Maybe its because people that have views similar to mine arent usually passionate about religion like myself.

 

[randyispwn]

there is much to this universe that we do not understand that to say a book written by man has all the answers is the most ignorant statement a human can make. to say that science has all the answers is equally ignorant. but science is the only one actively seeking the truth. that is a fact that cannot be disputed. when did a religion ever ask you to question the very basis of its legitimacy? when did religion ever say, well do you think that jesus really existed? maybe, he wasnt a real person, maybe just the idea of jesus is what you should be concerned with? imagine you went to church and the pastore stood up and said i believe jesus never existed and here is why... what would your reaction be?
in the scientific field, this happens all the time and the reactions obviously vary, but it happens and if the evidence is compelling, people listen.
EDIT: better?

Do some research on it. There are actually MANY religious figures that search answers for questions such as these. Even educated athiests believe that Jesus existed. The Gospels and the letters of paul are historical documents, and there are at least 3 other historians that spoke of Jesus.

 

[stik]

Come on now, this isnt the way of the Lord. If you really believe he will be going to hell purely because he does not believe in Jesus or God, then you should be praying for him, not laughing at him for fucking up. I personally believe that if God and Jesus are what we say they are, then they wouldnt discriminate what you believe in. IMO believers get sent to hell for the same reason non believers get sent to hell: because they were bad people, and its the same on the other side of it, non believers and believers go to heaven for believing. I just can't imagine a God that would send someone like ghandi to hell, because he didnt follow Jesus. There are PLENTY of great people that believe in other religions, or that believe in nothing at all, and I doubt God is sending them to spend all eternity in hell purely because they didnt believe the right thing. God can't work like that, he is a just God, and a just God would not base his opinion on you after some stupid shit like "did you believe in me....NO, THEN YOU GO TO HELL"..."but God, I'm the Buddha, I have been a great man for basically my whole life"..."well you didnt believe in me, go to hell"

THATS NOT HOW THIS WORKS

Honestly, why is everyone on this board either a full fledged athiest, or a creationist. I dont get it. Maybe its because people that have views similar to mine arent usually passionate about religion like myself.

You obviously don't know shit about the Old/New Testament. It's a hard pill to swallow but all who do will be glad they did. And if you're too sensitive, scared or proud for the message then God has a special place where you can be with all the others that couldn't accept it.
Mens rear and his backup lube will probably be there. It'll be sad to see them try to mock fire.

 

[Lubaolong]

Do some research on it. There are actually MANY religious figures that search answers for questions such as these. Even educated athiests believe that Jesus existed. The Gospels and the letters of paul are historical documents, and there are at least 3 other historians that spoke of Jesus.

If there was a guy going around performing miracles, healing the sick, feeding multitudes, raising people from the dead, rising from the grave, I would expect there would be a huge fuss about him. Why isn't there a ton of historical documents? Why is he not mentioned anywhere?

I am interested to see all of the vast historical evidence that you have of his existence.

 

[Mens Rea**]

The Gospels and the letters of paul are historical documents, and there are at least 3 other historians that spoke of Jesus.

These things get really shaky. We have letters written 40 years after the death, letters which reference Christians (not Christ), writings which contain known forgeries, and some other stuff which doesn't hold up too well. We do not have a single thing referencing Jesus written during his life.

 

[Mens Rea**]

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[xceptionalguysd]

Come on now, this isnt the way of the Lord. If you really believe he will be going to hell purely because he does not believe in Jesus or God, then you should be praying for him, not laughing at him for fucking up. I personally believe that if God and Jesus are what we say they are, then they wouldnt discriminate what you believe in. IMO believers get sent to hell for the same reason non believers get sent to hell: because they were bad people, and its the same on the other side of it, non believers and believers go to heaven for believing. I just can't imagine a God that would send someone like ghandi to hell, because he didnt follow Jesus. There are PLENTY of great people that believe in other religions, or that believe in nothing at all, and I doubt God is sending them to spend all eternity in hell purely because they didnt believe the right thing. God can't work like that, he is a just God, and a just God would not base his opinion on you after some stupid shit like "did you believe in me....NO, THEN YOU GO TO HELL"..."but God, I'm the Buddha, I have been a great man for basically my whole life"..."well you didnt believe in me, go to hell"

THATS NOT HOW THIS WORKS

Honestly, why is everyone on this board either a full fledged athiest, or a creationist. I dont get it. Maybe its because people that have views similar to mine arent usually passionate about religion like myself.

Really? Tell you what. You go an be a good person and see how far that gets you with God. See if you are still accepted into Heaven based upon your works. Much like Ghandi, most atheists believe they live a good life, better than most Christians in fact! Are they going to see Jesus? YES!! But He will be a judge and not a savior. Me... I'd rather Him be my Savior. The work that Christ did on the cross is sufficient. I cannot do any more works in order to achieve the Kingdom of Heaven. He has done it all for me. Yeah same goes for Buddha. If Buddha didn't accept Christ (who also died for his sins too!) then Buddha is judged. That judgement would likely be "NO SOUP FOR YOU!". I suggest you read the part of your Bible that says "No man may come to the Father but through the Son" He mean't that.

 

[randyispwn]

You obviously don't know shit about the Old/New Testament. It's a hard pill to swallow but all who do will be glad they did. And if you're too sensitive, scared or proud for the message then God has a special place where you can be with all the others that couldn't accept it.
Mens rear and his backup lube will probably be there. It'll be sad to see them try to mock fire.

Jesus was forgiving, am I right? Soooo, if Jesus was forgiving, dont you think that Jesus would forgive someone just for believing in something different? Well if I'm going to hell because of my beliefs (which according to you I probably wont because I do believe in God and I think I'm starting to come around on the whole Jesus is the son of God and he died for our sins) then I will chill with Ghandi and Buddha.

 

[xceptionalguysd]

The reason there aren't a lot of fence sitters in here debating like you do, is because they get their shaky views shot down so easily they give up rather quickly and have to rethink their viewpoints or simply don't debate.

 

[randyispwn]

If there was a guy going around performing miracles, healing the sick, feeding multitudes, raising people from the dead, rising from the grave, I would expect there would be a huge fuss about him. Why isn't there a ton of historical documents? Why is he not mentioned anywhere?

I am interested to see all of the vast historical evidence that you have of his existence.

There wasn't youtube back then. Word traveled SLOWLY about things, only as fast as people could walk really. Honestly, truthfully, only biased and ignorant athiests believe Jesus did not exist. There were a few non-Christian historians that wrote about him. Honestly, I am willing to say that there is more evidence of Jesus than there is of other famous historical figures that you take as fact, but because its Jesus, you just say "no, I dont believe, I'm an ignorant athiest"

 

[Lubaolong]

Mens posts some good videos.

 

[randyispwn]

These things get really shaky. We have letters written 40 years after the death, letters which reference Christians (not Christ), writings which contain known forgeries, and some other stuff which doesn't hold up too well. We do not have a single thing referencing Jesus written during his life.

Actually, Paul's letters were probably written within 10-15 years of Jesus' death. ALSO paul says something to the effect of "if you dont believe in the resurrection, there are 500 people that will tell you otherwise, just go and find them"...as in he definately lived within close proximity of when Jesus lived. ALSO the historian appelonius wrote about Jesus saying that his followers were called Christians and believed he did miracles and was the son of God. Should we just throw out everything appelonius wrote then?? One of the most trusted historians of all time, should we just throw out everything he wrote. You saying that Jesus didnt exist is just as stupid as me saying julius cesar or alexander the great didnt exist.

 

[Lubaolong]

There wasn't youtube back then. Word traveled SLOWLY about things, only as fast as people could walk really. Honestly, truthfully, only biased and ignorant athiests believe Jesus did not exist. There were a few non-Christian historians that wrote about him. Honestly, I am willing to say that there is more evidence of Jesus than there is of other famous historical figures that you take as fact, but because its Jesus, you just say "no, I dont believe, I'm an ignorant athiest"

Please enlighten me. I already said I was very interested in seeing this historic evidence. I'm sure there must be tons of it, considering the amazing things Jesus did and how he saved the world.

 

[Mens Rea**]

There wasn't youtube back then. Word traveled SLOWLY about things, only as fast as people could walk really. Honestly, truthfully, only biased and ignorant athiests believe Jesus did not exist. There were a few non-Christian historians that wrote about him. Honestly, I am willing to say that there is more evidence of Jesus than there is of other famous historical figures that you take as fact, but because its Jesus, you just say "no, I dont believe, I'm an ignorant athiest"

I think Jesus existed, but there is a lot more evidence for characters like julius ceaser. We have sculptures which were made of him during his life, we have writings about him which were written during his life, we have records, we have all sorts of evidence. Then there are people like Marcus Aurelius whose writings we have to this day. His contemporaries wrote about his as well.

And I hope you're not including more modern people in your "famous historical figures" comparison.

 

[randyispwn]

Really? Tell you what. You go an be a good person and see how far that gets you with God. See if you are still accepted into Heaven based upon your works. Much like Ghandi, most atheists believe they live a good life, better than most Christians in fact! Are they going to see Jesus? YES!! But He will be a judge and not a savior. Me... I'd rather Him be my Savior. The work that Christ did on the cross is sufficient. I cannot do any more works in order to achieve the Kingdom of Heaven. He has done it all for me. Yeah same goes for Buddha. If Buddha didn't accept Christ (who also died for his sins too!) then Buddha is judged. That judgement would likely be "NO SOUP FOR YOU!". I suggest you read the part of your Bible that says "No man may come to the Father but through the Son" He mean't that.

First of all, Buddha lived about 500-600 years before Jesus, so how could he belive in something that didnt exist at the time. Secondly, are you saying that everyone else that lived before Jesus is now in hell, JUST because they lived before Jesus? That seems a bit unfair, doesnt it? I personally don't think Jesus actually said things like "if you dont believe in me, then your going to hell" because it doesnt seem to go along with the rest of his message of loving, kindness, and forgiveness. I personally think that the church would have a HUGE motive to add that into the gospels, to verify the church and make it seem like it was the ONLY church that will get you into heaven.

 

[randyispwn]

The reason there aren't a lot of fence sitters in here debating like you do, is because they get their shaky views shot down so easily they give up rather quickly and have to rethink their viewpoints or simply don't debate.

My views arent shaky, they are just in the middle. I need to do research before I believe in something, unlike both sides that are arguing who seem to just be 100% sure they are right, which is ignorant.

 

[Mens Rea**]

Actually, Paul's letters were probably written within 10-15 years of Jesus' death.

Wrong. Paul mentions the destruction of the temple...this happened in the year 72.

ALSO paul says something to the effect of "if you dont believe in the resurrection, there are 500 people that will tell you otherwise, just go and find them"

That's pretty damned thin. 500 people still alive 40 years later, willing to testify? And none of them wrote anything down?


How do we know Paul wasn't lying?

ALSO the historian appelonius wrote about Jesus saying that his followers were called Christians and believed he did miracles and was the son of God.

Who? You're getting these characters mixed up. Please, references this. It's irnoic that you are mentioning Appolonius, as he is a Jesus clone.

And I already mentioned "We have someone who mentions Christians" above. So what? Nobody is denying that Christers existed.

Should we just throw out everything appelonius wrote then?? One of the most trusted historians of all time, should we just throw out everything he wrote.

Until you get the names right, yes.

You saying that Jesus didnt exist is just as stupid as me saying julius cesar or alexander the great didnt exist.

I didn't say that Jesus never existed. But there is most certainly MORE EVIDENCE for either one of those guys. Not only do we have countless records, accords, etc from their cultures, we have independently verified accounts from other cultures which mentioned those guys as rival leaders.

 

[SuperMykee**]

Wrong. Paul mentions the destruction of the temple...this happened in the year 72. That's pretty damned thin. 500 people still alive 40 years later, willing to testify? And none of them wrote anything down?


How do we know Paul wasn't lying?
Who? You're getting these characters mixed up. Please, references this. It's irnoic that you are mentioning Appolonius, as he is a Jesus clone.

And I already mentioned "We have someone who mentions Christians" above. So what? Nobody is denying that Christers existed.
Until you get the names right, yes.
I didn't say that Jesus never existed. But there is most certainly MORE EVIDENCE for either one of those guys. Not only do we have countless records, accords, etc from their cultures, we have independently verified accounts from other cultures which mentioned those guys as rival leaders.

Some of Paul's letters date to 50-60 CE

 

[randyispwn]

Wrong. Paul mentions the destruction of the temple...this happened in the year 72. That's pretty damned thin. 500 people still alive 40 years later, willing to testify? And none of them wrote anything down?


How do we know Paul wasn't lying?
Who? You're getting these characters mixed up. Please, references this. It's irnoic that you are mentioning Appolonius, as he is a Jesus clone.

And I already mentioned "We have someone who mentions Christians" above. So what? Nobody is denying that Christers existed.
Until you get the names right, yes.
I didn't say that Jesus never existed. But there is most certainly MORE EVIDENCE for either one of those guys. Not only do we have countless records, accords, etc from their cultures, we have independently verified accounts from other cultures which mentioned those guys as rival leaders.

None of these people were thinking "hmmmm, in 2000 years people will be arguing about this, I better write this down to clarify"...think about it. Paul wrote for a contemporaries, and that is who he is challenging to prove him wrong. Also, if paul wrote about the temple burning down, and that is certainly in 72 AD, then why has every source I have ever seen date paul's letters before the gospels, usually around 45-55 ad?

I messed up on appolonius, he was not the historian I was talking about. But there were at least a few historians that wrote about Jesus in a completely non-religious way, and then all the ones that wrote about him as the saviour.

Also, did you know that we don't have anything written about alexander the great that is still around, until biographies were written about him over 300 years after his death. So maybe you are the one that should do some research on these things.