Losing Faith in the State, Some Mexican Towns Quietly Break Away

yeah I'm aware of the zapatistas. wish they werent commies. i still respect them tho.

They need some kind of idealogy that will unite them. If mexico is capitalist, capitalism has not helped the Chiapas indigenous, or some of the indigenous that have decided to join up.

So they its either communism, anarchism, I dont know what else is left.
 
They need some kind of idealogy that will unite them. If mexico is capitalist, capitalism has not helped the Chiapas indigenous, or some of the indigenous that have decided to join up.

So they its either communism, anarchism, I dont know what else is left.
indigenismo
 
For example in this case an evangelical pastor (@ripskater not a catholic problem only) molested an 8 years old girl, but because he was a religious figure it was treated like a lesser crime (like having sex with a post-pubescent minor) and the community decreed the pastor had to pay with 20 liters of beer.

The father of the girl of course decided it was complete BS since it was a fucking 8 years old girl and went to social media and NGOs which forced the State government to go to the town and arrest the pastor.

Still i wouldnt be surprised if the family is going to be ostracized by the evangelical community of that particular town.

What about...22 liters of cerveza?
 
Great story, tied into a debate a co-worker and myself were having today, about how a breakdown in central authority would play out. I was arguing that things would be bad, but that pockets of functioning communities would still exist. This story helped me make that point better.
 
A good example that violence is not necessarily race related.

Corrupt culture breeds violence.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapatista_Army_of_National_Liberation

Has been happening.

They declared war against Mexico State. These guys go further than that little town, and have been at it for a while.

That's really not going to help anyone.

There's a vast difference between indigenous towns like Cheran legally using a provision of Mexican law to gain semi-autonomous status for their municipalities and attempt to make their lives better as Mexican citizens, and a full-blown Communist insurgency waging war against the government like the Zapatista.

I can see a lot of people in Mexico looking at the peace in Cheran as a symbol of hope, whereas Marxist Zapatista is a lost cause that can't possibly be taken seriously.
 
An advanced alien species would tell you that the native people who had not created European systems on their own, were not so predisposed to operate those systems effectively, which makes sense because people organize and create civilization in the way their genetics dictate they are predisposed.

Advanced alien documentaries would say things like this about different places around the world.

They tribed up and threw out the people running a system that wasn't a system they were predisposed to maintain properly. Good for these Indians.
 
Great story, tied into a debate a co-worker and myself were having today, about how a breakdown in central authority would play out. I was arguing that things would be bad, but that pockets of functioning communities would still exist. This story helped me make that point better.

I think you owes me a beer, brah. :cool:
 
That's really not going to help anyone.

There's a vast difference between indigenous towns like Cheran legally using a provision of Mexican law to gain semi-autonomous status for their municipalities and attempt to make their lives better as Mexican citizens, and a full-blown Communist insurgency waging war against the government like the Zapatista.

I can see a lot of people in Mexico looking at the peace in Cheran as a symbol of hope, whereas Marxist Zapatista is a lost cause that can't possibly be taken seriously.

Actually the Zapatista is the reason the semi-autonomous status was created. Instead of taking the towns that the Zapatistas took by force they gave them said status.

Similar to what the Russians did in Chechnya and that legal framework was used in other places like Cheran.

Zapatista was never really an armed revolt, they took a few towns and then retreated to the jungle where a key political maneuvering made them autonomous.
 
Article states that they're all ethnically the same for the most part. It's like crossing cultures causes social turmoil or something. As much as I support my fellow man, cultures clash constantly.
 
An advanced alien species would tell you that the native people who had not created European systems on their own, were not so predisposed to operate those systems effectively, which makes sense because people organize and create civilization in the way their genetics dictate they are predisposed.

Advanced alien documentaries would say things like this about different places around the world.

They tribed up and threw out the people running a system that wasn't a system they were predisposed to maintain properly. Good for these Indians.

Ever tried to pitch that idea to the History Channel?

7206140_orig.png
 
Article states that they're all ethnically the same for the most part. It's like crossing cultures causes social turmoil or something. As much as I support my fellow man, cultures clash constantly.

Their conflict weren't ethnic or tribal in nature, but merely economic, illegal loggers backed by organized crime were preying on them.
 
Their conflict weren't ethnic or tribal in nature, but merely economic, illegal loggers backed by organized crime were preying on them.

Right, culture doesn't matter. How silly of me.
 
Actually the Zapatista is the reason the semi-autonomous status was created. Instead of taking the towns that the Zapatistas took by force they gave them said status.

Similar to what the Russians did in Chechnya and that legal framework was used in other places like Cheran.

Zapatista was never really an armed revolt, they took a few towns and then retreated to the jungle where a key political maneuvering made them autonomous.

They wouldn't be considered seriously because they kept insisting that the Mexican government is not legitimate. Mexico's government may be corrupted as fuck, but every leader was voted for fair and square by the people. Kinda like the Philippines.

Now that indigenous autonomy has become reality, those Zapatista guys should focus on improving lives for the indigenous people, by rallying the people in more diverse towns together for the common good, or keep an eye on potential abuses by the towns leaders/local police, or to prevent the cartels from trying to establish a foothold in those places again.

I've read an older article that says since Cherán's forest-based economy was devastated by the illegal loggers, the town pretty much survives on government funds and remittance money from their relatives working in the U.S. (a big chunk of the Cheran population travels to the U.S for seasonal agriculture work each Spring) while the forest is being replanted. It's going to be years before the town can be self-sustainable again.

There's still much to do after autonomy.

-----
Reclaiming the Forests and the Right to Feel Safe
By KARLA ZABLUDOVSKY | AUG. 2, 2012

mexico1-jumbo.jpg

CHERÁN, Mexico — The woman’s exhausted eyes reflected the flames dancing in front of her. A 38-year-old grandmother, she is also a leader of the civilian insurgency that has taken over this mountain town in the state of Michoacán, 310 miles west of Mexico City. Sixteen months of cold and sleepless nights at Bonfire No. 17, one of a number of permanent burning barricades set up here, have taken their toll.

But like the rest of the residents, she cannot afford to let her guard down.

On the morning of April 15, 2011, using rocks and fireworks, a group of women attacked a busload of AK-47-armed illegal loggers as they drove through Cherán, residents said. The loggers, who local residents say are protected by one of Mexico’s most powerful criminal organizations and given a virtual free pass by the country’s authorities, had terrorized the community at will for years.

Cherán’s residents said they had been subjected to multiple episodes of rape, kidnapping, extortion and murder by the paramilitary loggers, who have devastated an estimated 70 percent of the surrounding oak forests that sustained the town’s economy and indigenous culture for centuries.

What happened next was extraordinary, especially in a country where the rule of law is often absent and isolated communities are frequently forced to accept the status quo. Organized criminal syndicates, like the drug cartel La Familia, created in Michoacán, act like a state within a state, making their own rules and meting out grisly punishments to those who do not obey.

But here in Cherán, a group of townspeople took loggers hostage, expelled the town’s entire police force and representatives of established political parties, and forcibly closed the roads.

The Mexican government authorities had previously ignored their repeated pleas for help, the residents said, so the people of Cherán simply took the law into their own hands.

“I felt my knees shake like castanets,” said the woman standing vigil at Bonfire No. 17, Rocio, who, like others here, withheld her last name for fear of reprisals by the criminal networks they are resisting. She recalled her overwhelming fear during those first days of revolt, when residents gathered around as many as 200 bonfires set up at every intersection in town to prevent the loggers from retaliating.

In the months since then, Cherán’s townspeople have established a simple but effective internal protection system. There are fewer bonfires today, but several remain active and a security patrol of residents, or “ronda,” keeps watch at all times. Armed townspeople — from middle-age men to teenage girls — guard the barricades blocking all entrances into town. Their weapons are AR15 assault rifles, seized from the police when they expelled them.

Inside the town, they say, crime is now down almost to zero and most residents seem to feel safe. In recent days, however, people from nearby communities have taken several federal police officers captive, demanding that the newly instated forest patrols be canceled so that they can continue their logging activities. (The officers have since been released.) It is unclear if the hostage-takers were illegal loggers, but tensions are flaring in Cherán as the rest of the country looks on with concern.

Last November, in a court appeal, Cherán acquired a degree of autonomy from the Mexican government; the town still receives federal and state money, and its people must pay taxes, but they are allowed to govern themselves under a legal framework called “uses and customs” that has been granted to some indigenous communities.

Legal experts and academics say that Cherán is the first community to be granted this right as a result of a conflict over natural resources with one of the country’s increasingly powerful criminal syndicates.

The residents’ actions have ignited a regional spark of do-it-yourself justice. In nearby Opopeo, residents have organized community patrols and created an alert system using church bells. In Santa Clara del Cobre, disgruntled townspeople kidnapped their police force for several days last February, suspecting it of having abducted and “disappeared” a local man accused of rape.

Still, the neighboring communities have not gone as far as Cherán. “If we do that here, we would need someone to take the lead, and if they did, they’ll kill him,” said Noe Pamatz, 64, a former member of the civilian security organization in Opopeo. He quit last month after its leader was found murdered.

Cherán’s residents say they were inspired to push for autonomy by some notable precedents. In 1994, Subcommander Marcos, the leader of the Zapatista rebels, staged an uprising in the southern Mexican state of Chiapas, demanding better treatment for the indigenous communities there, placing the issue on the national political agenda.

The next year, Oaxaca became one of a handful of states to formally include the system of “uses and customs” for indigenous areas in its constitution. At the same time, indigenous communities in Guerrero, angered over the ineffectiveness and corruption of the local police, organized “community police forces” that have been largely successful, and remain in operation today.

The hurdles that Cherán has faced in recent years highlight the plight of Mexico’s most disenfranchised communities, which have suffered disproportionately during the nation’s drug wars, often without national notice.

“It’s not Acapulco, where you have foreign investment; it’s not Ciudad Juárez, where you have the maquiladora industry,” said David Peña, a lawyer representing the residents of Cherán. “It’s just a miserable little indigenous town.”

Cherán now exists in an uneasy calm, but its residents are beginning to doubt their survival as an island amid hostile waters. In late July, an army base was set up near Cherán after two residents were killed when they ventured into the forests. Since April 2011, other residents have been murdered under similar circumstances. The presence of soldiers provides a level of comfort, residents say, but even Obdulio Ávila, deputy secretary of Mexico’s Interior Ministry, acknowledges that it may not be enough.

“It is difficult to have security in the whole municipality,” he said. “In fact, it is materially impossible.”

The forests around Cherán have also suffered a stark physical transformation. Burned tree stumps and weeds have replaced the old, impenetrable groves.

“You can see that an entire beautiful forest existed and no longer does,” said Pedro, a native of Cherán who moved to Southern Illinois 35 years ago and last visited in 2009. Pedro and other expatriates have sent money and basic staples to their families still living in the embattled town since they began their uprising.

Some in Cherán say that they have begun to feel captive and desperate, confined to their town but still dependent on the forests, from which they take wood and wild mushrooms, a community staple. The forests also represents something more intangible but no less important to them — a source of wisdom and an integral part of the Cheránean identity.

With access to the forests cut off, Cherán’s economy is beginning to dwindle. Unemployed woodworkers are now trying to secure odd jobs inside the town, but there are few to be had. The prized colorful, fleshy mushrooms are sold at increasingly high prizes in the main square. Outside support has become increasingly vital.

“They are living practically off of the remittances coming in from the United States,” Leonardo Velazquez, a hospital administrator living in Cherán, said of his neighbors. Indeed, Michoacán was the Mexican state with the highest flow of remittances in 2011 and the first three months of 2012. Still, the state’s economy appears to be falling apart.

Here in Cherán, the women around Bonfire No. 17 talked late into the chilly night about their fallen comrades and their devastated forests. They seemed to find energy in their scorching tea and courage in the words of a song that a woman seated next to Rocio had been composing.

“I have lived, but what are we going to give our children?” she sang, a toddler son clinging to her thick wool sweater. “They won’t even be able to buy a little log like the ones we are burning here.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/03/w...g-the-forests-and-the-right-to-feel-safe.html
 
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They wouldn't be considered seriously because they kept insisting that the Mexican government is not legitimate. Mexico's government may be corrupted as fuck, but every leader was voted for fair and square by the people. Kinda like the Philippines.

Now that indigenous autonomy has become reality, those Zapatista guys should focus on improving lives for the indigenous people, by rallying the people in more diverse towns together for the common good, or keep an eye on potential abuses by the towns leaders/local police, or to prevent the cartels from trying to establish a foothold in those places again.

I've read another article that says since Cherán's forest-based economy was devastated by the illegal loggers, the town pretty much survives on government funds and remittance money from their relatives working in the U.S. (a big chunk of the Cheran population travels to the U.S for seasonal agriculture work each Spring) while the forest is being replanted. It's going to be years before the town can be self-sustainable again.

There's still much to do after autonomy.

I think the freedom of speech clause of the constitution allows you to claim the government isnt legitimate as long as you follow the law, which is what they are doing.

I would lie if i said i knew something about Cheran's economic autonomy, but a lot of places in Mexico are the same and only subsist thanks to government assistance.

Its a way for the Mexican government to avoid popular uprising of the marginalized and poor.
 
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I think the freedom of speech clause of the constitution allows you to claim the government isnt legitimate as long as you follow the law, which is what they are doing.

I would lie if i said i knew something about Cheran's economic autonomy, but a lot of places in Mexico are the same and only subsist thanks to government assistance.

Its a way for the Mexican government to avoid popular uprising of the marginalized and poor.

They make a living by agriculture, raising livestocks, and making wood products (furniture, etc).

Timber logging is put on hold so the forest can replenish, so a big chunk of revenue (and employment) is gone.

The forest is coming back to life though:

The pine forest - a sea of green that tumbles down the hills to the town below - was ravaged by the loggers. Now its perimeter is patrolled daily by the officers from the Ronda Comunitaria.

Land in Cheran is mostly held in common - families manage it but they don't own it. With the criminals gone, rules are strictly enforced - anyone who wants to fell a tree must secure permission from the authorities.

And slowly, the forest is being regenerated. It is estimated that over half the town's 17,000 hectares of forest were devastated by organised crime. Some 3,000 hectares have so far been re-planted in the five years since the uprising, the seedlings nurtured in the town's own tree nursery.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37612083
 
They make a living by agriculture, raising livestocks, and making wood products (furniture, etc).

Timber logging is put on hold so the forest can replenish, so a big chunk of revenue (and employment) is gone.

The forest is coming back to life though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-37612083

I wonder who is assisting them with the know-how about forestry management.
 
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